Let's win with class

[American liberal]

I was not able to post this in Campaign 2004. I kept getting a bug report error.

I read on another thread that there were RWers who cheered when they found out JFK was assassinated. I was only a baby at the time, so I have no personal recollection. But every report in the media I have read or seen re: JFK's assassination has been a reaction of shock and deep sorrow. I am angered to hear that people cheered about it. Bastards.

Well, let's not stoop to their level. When Kerry is declared the winner Wednesday, let's try celebrating with a little class and grace. There are Bush supporters out there--many of them--who are good people--delusional maybe, but good, decent people--and I'm not talking about those nasty, NRA card-carrying freepers who talk about beating up liberals and gays. For whatever misguided reasons they have chosen to back a loser, it shows a lot of class not to kick them when they're down.

That's my hope...that we can show the right that we can win with class and dignity and a little humility. It may go a long way in starting to heal the chasm between us, and President Kerry will need all the help and support he can get--especially if we don't take back the Senate tomorrow.

Wishing the world peace,
AL

[pagerbear]

1. I wish folks would take heed

...but I'm afraid it won't happen. Just look at my recent post about treating everyone with respect, regardless of their politics or public statements.

[American liberal]

2. post a link and I will. :-)

[cassiepriam]

48. you are right

It will be hard for me to get too carried away celebrating.
The 100,000 Iraqi dead haunt me. Mostly women and children.

[Paradise]

3. If 'we' do not, we will be just as bad as 'they' are! n/t

[Cat Atomic]

4. Winning with class is fine, but I do hope people don't confuse that

with compromise or inclusiveness. Republicans will still be guilty of celebrating an American fascist movement and getting more than a hundred thousand real human beings killed. I don't think this is the time to talk things out and find common ground.

[DrWeird]

5. "You lost. Get over it."

I've been waiting for four years to say it. And if I can say it tomorrow, I sure as hell will.

[PatriotGames]

44. I was just thinking that! I have waited a long time to say that!

How's it feel freepers?

I hope I can say that tomorrow!

[IrateCitizen]

6. Fuck that.

I'm not looking to gloat over an electoral win tomorrow, because Kerry getting in the WH is just the beginning -- he'll require a lot of pushing and pulling from the progressive wing. But I'm not going to be gracious to those on the right, because of the damage they've done to this country and the world.

Their "ideas" are wrong and dangerous and destructive now, and they'll be the same on Nov. 3. I'm not about to pretend otherwise, nor to stop fighting their efforts to drag the world with them, anytime soon.

[flobee1kenobi]

9. I could easily say

Lighten up and get over it to everyone I associate with every day, but I'll let it slide on Wed.
otoh, a good Rep.friend of mine will be getting a sympathy card dropped in his mailbox when Kerry wins.

front:Thinking of you in your time of sorrow

Inside: There are no words-yadda yadda-We will always be here for you
signed-TERRY MCAULIFFE DNC CHAIRMAN

this friend is the same one that had his dog go pee on my Kerry sign after I told his 2 yr old daughter to pull up his bush sign and throw it in the street
Just one more jab-then I'm done :-)

[IrateCitizen]

10. Now THAT'S a wonderful slice of Americana!

this friend is the same one that had his dog go pee on my Kerry sign after I told his 2 yr old daughter to pull up his bush sign and throw it in the street

I love stuff like this come election season, so long as it's done without escalating out of hand. If you and your friend are still on speaking terms, then there's no harm done.

[American liberal]

14. that's pretty funny...

I like the idea of a sympathy card. Now that's classy. :)

[g-money]

7. I'm going to find the nearest freeper and laugh in his face!!!!

but that's just me

[donheld]

20. welcome to DU

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

8. winning is the important word

and since * didn't "win," i see no reason not to be gracious in a REAL victory. especially this victory. i hope they all choke on it :nopity: (that's me being gracious)

[Tenenbomb]

11. Class

From what I have seen it is hard for some people to win or lose with class. We saw that last election.

[HamdenRice]

12. Al, I think you're right...

What I imagine for here in NYC is that people will poor into the streets without chanting or raising placards but just to be together, chatting and to breath a sigh of collective relief.

This is not a team sport that entitles us to gloat. It will be a victory for the forces of decency and intelligence and the good of the country.

[Walt Starr]

13. Sorry, as far as I'm concerned, nobody who would support Bush is "good"

That's my opinioin, and I'm sticking to it.

[American liberal]

17. You're certainly entitled to that opinion, Walt, but...

I don't think it's a healthy one. By classifying an entire group of people as "bad" or maybe more accurately as "not good" by virtue of who they vote for or support--aren't you doing the same thing they are? Viewing them with blinders on?

Here's one example of what I'm talking about, that people on the right are not all bad: I belong to an organic gardening message board. There are many bush supporters there. One of them is this sweet lady from Louisiana who is steadfast in her support for Bush--in 6 months of posting my lefty viewpoints she hasn't budged an inch. She has posted some stuff I find downright offensive! But she's a decent person--kind, generous, caring.

OTOH, there are people here I think post really rude, ignorant stuff. Are they "good" because they support Kerry even though they're rude and obnoxious?

It's the "black-and'white" thinking that got Bush into so much trouble. Frankly, Walt, I would expect better from you based on a lot of the stuff I've read of yours. But that's just MY opinion. And you know what they say about opinions... :)

Peace,
AL

[Walt Starr]

38. I didn't start this war, they did.

The Republican party declared war on me in 1980.

I cannot see the enemy as anything other than what they have presented themselves to be, my enemy.

[American liberal]

41. wow. what happened?

[American liberal]

49. Oh, duh, you mean Reagan...

[jpak]

15. But will the RW accept defeat with "class"????

I doubt it.

They will do everything in their power to thwart the Kerry administration.

Especially the Impeachment Trolls in the House of Representatives.

And if you think the media whoring during this election was bad - you ain't seen nothing yet.

Get ready for a Freeper Full Court Press.

The Sore "Loosers" (sic) will run amok...

[American liberal]

21. Of course they won't , but that's not the point

If we respond in kind, we're no better than they are.

I'm not talking about getting conciliatory or soft or letting them have their way or get away with the crap they pulled on Clinton! We're wiser now. We know their game. The scrutiny of this election process is a beautiful example!

But it doesn't mean we have to be rude and crass and sneaky and underhanded like they are! I've learned these past months that Kerry is a man of great integrity. He has withstood an amazing amount of bullshit to get where he is today. On the eve of his election to the highest office of the land, I encourage my friends here to take his lead and stand up to the freepers and naysayers and instigators with grace and equanimity.

Now, in good conscience, it's easy for me to say. I'm in Chicago, a Democratic stronghold. We're about to elect Barack Obama into a Senate seat occupied by a Republican. I don't know any Bush supporters personally. All my family, friends and most of my aquaintances are lefties. Those who aren't I don't talk politics with.

It's just that I've seen so much bashing going on from both sides through this very heated campaign season. I'm really sick of it. I can't wait for the election to be over so we can then move on to the next challenge. It all goes back to that post from the guy who remembers people cheering when JFK was assassinated. I know I don't want to be like those people. And that's MY 6 cents (inflation).

Peace,
AL

Edited a fact and some grammar.

[geniph]

25. We don't have to be better than they are

We just have to be more successful at getting our ideas across to the rest of the country than they are.

I'm not a believer in "by any means necessary" but I'm also not a believer in being a patsy, either. I believe in the doctrine of "only a fool brings a knife to a gunfight."

On the other hand, I won't be taunting or harassing any hardcore freeper types after our electoral landslide, because I no longer associate with any.

[MISSDem]

16. I think that we should remember that when the results are in

one side is going to be CRUSHED. Don't be mean.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. The GOP should have thought of that in 2000 when they told us to...

..."Get over it".

Tell you what, if this were any other country there would be some scores to settle shortly after the results were tallied.

You want to be nice to the NeoCons? Fine...be nice.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't want to hear another word out of their smart-ass fascist mouths.

[NOWMDNOGWB]

19. nothing personal against individuals

BUT CAN'T WE PAYBACK HANNITY,SCARBOROUGH,BUCHANNON,ORIELLY,JOHN ONIEL ETC???

[American liberal]

22. What goes around comes around. They'll get theirs

And my favorite: It'll all come out in the wash.

One of MY big hopes is that Kerry is successful in rolling back some of the FCC regs that has allowed companies like Sinclair to control so much of the media! I want my free press back!

[m berst]

26. of course not

Nothing personal against individuals, you say, and then you list individuals.

The strong and effective response to destructiveness is not "payback" and I believe that you will find that to be the thinking of the overwhelming majority of liberals. There are a number of things that we will be concentrating on, including the restoration of fair broadcasting standards so that we don't again find ourselves in this situation of hateful and divisive politics. To respond to the hatred with hatred will only strengthen it. This doesn't mean being weak! Fairness, decency and integrity are not weak, they are strong.

So you might want to document this response from a liberal and carry it back with you - no, we will not be seeking payback and we will not be stooping to the level of gutter politics and verbal street brawling with those people you listed. We will however be working night and day to restore our Constitution and to awaken our fellow misguided citizens to the dangers of gutter politics.

[Ima]

43. Those people yes

will be reckoned with as we take back the media.

[Shakespeare]

23. Class and dignity don't even enter into the equation.

This is a fight for the very soul of our democracy.

Several weeks ago, Krugman published a column where he made an extremely important point. When we win, the one thing we cannot afford to do is be conciliatory or accommodating in any way. We have to begin work on our agenda, and our agenda alone, and we have to cram it right down their fucking throats.

It's the only way we're going to kill the neocon agenda.

Acting with "class and dignity" is what got our asses kicked in the chaos after the 2000 election, and we should remember not to take that path again.

[American liberal]

27. I don't agree

Ignorance, lack of clout, and a weak agenda are what let the Repubs get away with what they got away with in 2000.

I am in full agreement with you, all the way up to "cramming it down their fucking throats."

I think Bush has helped us define our agenda. I don't think we really had a very strong one in 2000. Bush has made it easy for us. The lines have been clearly drawn, thank you very much.

Based on what I have learned about Kerry these past months, I think he'll be using a LOT of diplomacy (aka class and dignity) to move the agenda forward. And he's no pushover. He's shown again and again that he's a strong closer. And he's smart and knows enough to surround himself with even smarter people, savvy people.

We can take many lessons from the right about how to move our chess pieces around the board. One thing we do NOT have to do and will NOT do is lie and cheat and steal. "By any means necessary" is their co-opted schtick. Once we control the executive branch and the Senate, and then the House in a couple of years, we can play the game our way without having to stoop to their level.

Anger is a very powerful motivator. We have a lot to be angry about. But like any good therapist would say--and I've seen my share--we have to learn how to channel it productively.

Peace,
AL

[Shakespeare]

33. Do NOT twist my words--where the hell....

....do you get off suggesting that I want to "lie, cheat and steal" about anything?

What I said was NO MAGNANIMITY. That's night and day from "lie, cheat and steal," and I'll thank you very much to back off that statement of yours.

It would be a dreadful mistake to include anybody on the right in our agenda. Their agenda is like a virus that needs to be exterminated, and being inclusive and conciliatory with those in power on the right is deadly.

Remember the fable about the frog and the scorpion? We don't want to make the same "classy" mistake the frog did.

[American liberal]

37. Relax, Shakespeare

Those were MY words, not yours. I said I agreed with you. I was adding more of my own commentary, not responding to what you said. My point is that to beat them at their game we don't have to play their game. Please accept my apologies for any perceived offense. None was intended.

[greyfox]

24. THAT will be

our ultimate JOY -- just saying "Thank the Lord" or whomever YOU thank... and letting THEM rant.

[geniph]

28. You're talking about people...

...who see any sign of politeness or tolerance as weakness and go straight for the jugular. Yes, the majority of us should be civil about our overwhelming victory, but we also need to do exactly what the Republicans did so successfully, and create organizations like the Heritage Foundation to do the dirty (and necessary) work for us.

[Rambis]

29. I will make Stalin look like a sissy boy!

this administration was a POS and they deserve to be stamped into the ground along with the sheeple that supported them. I will show no mercy at all period end of story! I am going to be unmerciful! They jacked our democracy for cryin out loud! You voted for Bush?fuck you will be my response to all of them.

[Q]

30. Tell you what...YOU win with class...

...and we'll follow our conscience.

- Too many on DU seem to want to 'get over it' after being slapped down so many times by Rwingers who don't give a shit about anything but power.

- We need to remember that this wasn't just a 'bad' president who 'made mistakes'. He is a criminal...as is his gang of thugs who threaten, intimidate, lie, cheat and steal to get what they want.

- You can't 'heal' anything or anyone until both sides agree on a truce. if you've been paying attention for the last two decades...the RWingers don't want to share power.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

31. "Payback is a bitch"

I say we all, on an individual basis, repay in kind on an individual basis whatever the last four years' Repug hegemony has done to us.

For me--it's hard to look at my case individually. I really don't know a single Republican. In fact, I consciously began to boycott them from my life after 2000. So I don't really have an opportunity to be "unclassy" around people I know personally. Except maybe my students--but I've considered "giving F's to any Republican" time and again, and just can't do it. I don't consider myself an especially good person; I just don't want to undermine my own authority as a grader. Nor do I want to have a more than professional relationship...

So beyond that, what? I had almost no problems with the police in the Clinton years; without changing my behavior I've been stopped, questioned, harrassed, threatened, and even falsely arrested in the last four years. Cops are pigs who turn into smaller pigs when a non-pig is in charge. Can I hold it against them personally? Well, I can, but I'd be crazy to do so. I can rest assured that they are writhing in agony that their new Big Boss is a liberal.

What else? My job prospects aren't that great compared to what they would have been had Gore gotten in. But who can I attack over that?

My point is, I think in each case we should decide what we CAN and CAN'T do. If there are Republicans in someone's life who have been torturing that person over Gore's loss for the last four years, I say by all means have at them. It takes an authoritarian mindset to get that emotionally invested in The Leader, left or right, IMO.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

32. For the past twelve years...

Every time we've tried to be "bipartisan" and reach across the aisle, we get kicked in the teeth. We (I use that word to mean Congress) "united" with Bush after 9/11, and look at what they did. They used it as a wedge to win the 2002 elections.

No more.

I'm tired of "taking the high road."

I'M TAKING MY COUNTRY BACK. And tomorrow is the first step to tell the neo-cons that their wannabe-fascist agenda has NO PLACE in this country. America doesn't respect "class" as much as it respects someone who STANDS UP to these fascists and says "NO MORE!"

No more Bush.
No more PNAC.
No more.

[skypilot]

34. A Bush loss isn't the same as...

...a Kennedy assassination. Yes, celebrating an assassination is appalling behavior but Bush isn't about to be assassinated. When he loses, I'm going to whoop it up. I don't care if his supporters are offended by it. The last four years have been offensive to me.

[Shakespeare]

35. THANK YOU. That point should have been made immediately.

Very, very well said.

[mac56]

36. I'll make you a deal, okay?

I'll show as much class as they did.

[manic expression]

39. There comes a point...

when fighting back is the only responsible choice. We should not taunt or deplore ourselves, but we must fight as hard as we can, and we must fight with honor and dignity.

[Julien Sorel]

40. Let's just win.

The rest are details.

[American liberal]

42. Wow. I didn't realize passions would run so high

Now I feel the need to explain myself. When I suggested we show we can win with class and dignity, I was talking about us, the regular folks who post to these forums, not the people in power. Some of you seemed to have trouble distinguishing btw. the two. I'm just talking about acting with decency. Freepers really disgust me with their violent vitriol.

I thought equating Kerry's win with JFK's assassination was a perfectly acceptable analogy. Don't take it so literally!

After reading many of your posts on this and other threads, I may have to rethink my last point about bridging the chasm. Again, I was referring to the populace, not the Delays and McCains and Cheneys. As was said on another thread, I agree that Kerry needs to stack his cabinet with forward-thinking progressives. I also agree that we as a party need to be assertive and push a strong agenda and undo the damage that has been worught these past few years. Please do not confuse my call for decency among the voting public as a mandate to be patsies or conciliatory. That wasn't my point.

Peace,
AL

[smbolisnch]

45. Great idea.....

I am behind this 100%. There are A LOT of people who I would love to go running over to and say "see, I told you so!". I have no plans to do that, however. If the roles were to be reversed, I would never want them to do that to me. I know that just the huge smile on my face will speak in volumes! :kick:

[robbedvoter]

46. Let's win this battle and get on with the rest of the war for democracy

I don't know what "class" is. This is NOT a sports competition but pretty much a life and death battle. I have no intent to gloat or smirk in anyone's face, but please anyone, read Krugman's interview (and make sure Kerry reads it too)
http://www.mollyivins.com/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=1777

[Bunny]

47. I was planning on driving down to DC on Wednesday morning,

standing outside the Naval Observatory, and screaming "Get out of Edwards' house!" Dang, now I have to have class? Crap.