Some advice for brand new DU posters, if I may.

[Lex]

DU gets an awful lot of trolling republicans or freepers--ones who come here simply to try to disrupt and cause trouble.

Because of that, people with low post counts are looked at with some skepticism. Particularly if there's a low post count and the posts contain things that would cause controversy.

My best advice is to lurk a bit and get a feel for the board. Start out posting things that aren't likely to be controversial. Earn your stripes, so to speak. Build your cred up over time.

Try not to take this natural skepticism personally.

I don't think that's too much to ask, jmho.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Lex, nice of you to point this out to the newbies. It would be a shame

if the sincere folk were accidentally chased out of here during a freeper sweep.

Welcome newbies! Glad you found us. :D

[wryter2000]

2. I second that

I've seen a lot of perfectly good people get themselves in trouble by posting without checking out the lay of the land first. Please, do join in. Everyone's nice. But take a look at your first posts before you hit the send button.

And welcome to DU :hi:

[Lex]

3. Yes and definitely

welcome to DU all you newbies! :hi:

[BUSHOUT]

4. Perfect example of someone who needs to buy your clue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2561066

[m berst]

10. how so?

Hi Bushout. Can you explain a little more what you are seeing with that post and that poster? The post is critical of the community, but thoughtful and respectful IMHO.

[BUSHOUT]

19. Go to reply #14 in the link. I explained it there.

The poster, on more than one occasion, posted old bad news articles without comment.

I'm not convinced that poster is a troll, but posting things like that is troll MO.
Then after some people react to the post suspiciously, the poster played the victim with a big long self-pity post.

Dredging up month old bad news *surveys* and posting them without any qualifier at this point in time is not a smart thing to do.
Looking for sympathy because a few people reacted to it and comparing the community to FreeRepublic (just like them but flying different flag??) is not smart either.

We're three days away from election. Trolls are popping up out of every dirty spider hole every dug.

[m berst]

27. thanks

That clears it up, and I understand what you mean now. I had read the op there, but not the whole thread.

Gentle and humble suggestion FWIW - fighting fire with fire means that more things get burned. "Stop crying or I will show you something to cry about" while perhaps accurate and understandable, does not work with small children, nor does it work with adults - if the goal is to have more light and less heat. It can cause more of the resnetments, confusion and suspicions that it nominally seeks to alleviate. For example, I personally found your response to him much more disruptive and destructive than I did his original post, but that is merely my sensbility about it and I while I wouldn't want to suppress my opinion about it, I also do not want to anatagonize or alienate you, and I hope that I don't with my words here. He irritated you, and I can understand why. Patience is short. Tensions are high. Trouble has been caused in the past by people who posted similar things in a similar way.

There is a brutality here in the language being used - "get over it, stop whining, get a grip, wake up, deal with it" that can only be destructive and can only help feed more and more energy into the growing maelstrom of hate and violence IMHO.

The underlying message is that some people are wimps and losers; that is precisley the image that the right wingers want to attach to all liberals. I think we are validating that concept when we tell each other to stop crying and to toughen up. The toughness being promoted os a fragile and brittle toughness that will not withstand the rigors to come.

I say, cry, cry, cry for what has happened to our country and for the maimed and killed and impoverished and abused. Crying is a sign of strength, not weakness. I say soften your heart and soften your words, don't toughen up and become base and coarse. The cruel and the violent people win if we do that.

Liberalism is about the poor, the weak, and the hurting. When we tell any among us to "get a grip" we are telling all among us to do that. There are things in this life about which a grip cannot be gotten, nor should it. Those are the things we are properly concerned with as liberals, not the food fight of personal attack and diviseness.

[BUSHOUT]

29. Like I said, I have no sympathy for him.

I'll save my sympathy for "the poor, the weak, and the hurting"

Not people who want to hold a pity party for themselves because a couple of people got suspicious of them over a suspicious post 3 days away from the election of our century.

Cry for "the poor, the weak, and the hurting.", sure. I cry for them all the time.
Cry for a poster who got stomped for accidentaly following a troll modis operendi? Maybe in four days.
Sorry that upsets you, it's not intended to. I'm really a very nice guy!

[m berst]

33. understood, thanks

I hear you.

[BUSHOUT]

20. And now his pity-party thread is locked. Why? Because it was disruptive.

n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

23. For Newb's: Definition of FREEPER.

Freeper refers to agents who are inspired by the Free Republic to visit this site to provoke fear and anger among us.

A note for long-time DUers:
Methinks you attribute yourselves too little power. The arguments and references that can be found by following links and "listening" to conversations are thoughtful and powerful. If Freepers linger for a time, they will find reasons to change their hearts here. I believe that is a good thing.

I have witnessed at least one Freeper-attack on this board. The tone changes; we all become fearful. I became physically ill because my board had been hijacked by hate-mongers and we no longer trusted one another. It is a frightening thing.

If FREEPERS are hate-mongers, our best defense is to not foment hate here in this forum. This is where we come to educate ourselves.


I am also happy to see so many new posters have contributed to the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. Many thanks to the staff! I look forward to continuing my subscription well beyond these elections; when we can be motivated by hope rather than by fear and hatred.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. That's right friendly of you to advise the newbies like that

:-)

[mongo]

6. You make us sound like free republic

Don't post an opinion that does not follow the party line 100% or you'll be outed.

I think diversity of opinion is healthy, especially considering that the repubs are the party for facist christian theocrats, and the dems are EVERYONE else.

[Lex]

11. Mongo, you misunderstand.

I never said "Don't post an opinion that does not follow the party line 100% or you'll be outed."

I, too, think diversity of opinion is healthy. My post was strictly some advice for the newer posters ONLY and why their posts are sometimes met with skepticism.

This thread was not about the overall posting of diverse opinions--I am ALL for that.

[NorthernSpy]

13. no, the Dems AREN'T "for everyone else" (and we shouldn't be, either)

I think diversity of opinion is healthy, especially considering that the repubs are the party for facist christian theocrats, and the dems are EVERYONE else.

To give an example, our attempts to protect the environment and to safeguard the well-being and interests of the American working class are quite incompatible with hardcore libertarianism. It is true that we are not the party of Christian fascist theocrats (heaven forbid!). But that does not mean that we have no principles apart from our opposition to Christian fascist theocracy.


Mary

[eris]

7. How many posts do you have to get

to start a thread?

I used to post here a 6 or 7 months ago and I had built up maybe 30 or 40 posts (I like to lurk more than I post). I came back to the site yesterday because I wanted to share my response to some bastards who stole my Kerry/Edwards sign from my yard Thursday night (The local headquarters was out of signs so we made our own makeshift one complete with christmas lights). And when I tried to post I was told I didn't have enough posts to start a thread and that the post count I had built up was gone.

[DulceDecorum]

9. Interesting name

for someone posting on this particular thread.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/eris.html

[eris]

12. Right you are

But I swear, I'm not here to offer any apples. O8) :hippie:

I use this name a lot because I tend not to agree with the majority and people have (unjustly) accused me of being contrary on purpose.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi eris!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Vickers]

8. And don't get your undies all knotted if somebody questions you

What do you do in real life, run to mommy? Hell no! You stand your ground, state your points, and move on if you can't get somebody to see the light.

:hug::grouphug::pals::loveya:I LOVE NEWBIES!!!!!:loveya::pals::grouphug::hug:







(Uh, except when they're stupid freeper assholes.) :spank:

[Kanary]

35. Maybe it would be a good start to unknot your own.

[Vickers]

38. Oh, are you following me around now?

Well how about this: FUCK YOU.

You got all pussy-hurt in that other thread so now you are going to follow me around and make little shitty comments? That's pathetic. You said you were going to leave the Democratic Party? Then GET THE FUCK OUT.

[Dude_CalmDown]

14. Maybe it was different then but...

...from the beginning of my time here I've been what can be considered a basher (Clinton was a great republican president and I cannot stand 90 percent of the Dem senators and congressmen we have) but I've always been tolerated (or just ignored). I guess that at the time my comments were easier to take. Also I think my old avatar (Dennis Kucinich) helped people see why I cannot stand most of our Dem leaders.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. State your positions and be willing to take the flak.

You'll be getting it no matter what your position. Sometimes, on some occasions, you'll run across someone who differs with you, who will enter into a debate without the "gotcha" nonsense that prevails.

Note: I have indulged in such adolescent BS myself but usually regret it and even apologize sometimes.

Welcome to the newcomers..your voices are needed. Beware the McCarthyites who wish only their voices to be heard.

[Cozmosis]

16. As a relative new person, I would agree

In post count, not in join date. Welcome all newbies!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

17. Concocted examples of what constitutes an obvious freeper post:

"John Kerry is a big-time flipflopper but we should still vote for him!!"

"Oh my god we're gonna lose, what can we do to come back?"

"So Republicans might cheat Nov 2nd - what can Democrats do to cheat even BETTER and WIN?!"

"Here's how we can fool America that Osama actually wants Bush to win!"


...see, stuff like that (although, of course, a little less clear). It's always pretty obvious, and strangely enough, its always people with <500 posts.

[Frank Rose]

18. I am not so new time-wise, but don't post alot so

I have a relatively low number. I am blessed with poor typing skills, so it is rare that my words outrun my thoughts. Only had a few defensive postures taken against me, misunderstandings worked out with further dialog, and peace has always ruled the day here at DU.

[Kanary]

21. And, a request for us longtimers.....

That we can be welcoming, as another thread was doing, and put some of our skepticism on ice for a while.

THere's really no reason to assume guilt, until proven innocent.

Just think...... if Dem offices did that with volunteers, it wouldn't get very far.

It's time to think through some of these "givens".

Kanary

[Lex]

22. True.

Understanding from long-timers would go a long way too.

[Kanary]

25. This is the beginning of building the Dem party from the mess of the

last four years.

It's up to us, how we treat each other, and what we build.

Rationalizing and excusing bad behavior is self-destructive.

Can you imagine running a state Dem office with this attacking newcomers, and then excusing it as "tension"? How many volunteers would there be if they were treated that way?

We're going to have to think this through, and hold ourselves accountable.

If we're capable of not dumping our "tension" on our bosses, we're capable of not dumping on each other.

Quite simple, actually.

Kanary

[Kanary]

37. no response to what we actually want to our party to look like?

:shrug:

[meganmonkey]

24. Another piece of advice...

from a relatively-new-bie...
I have racked up a lot of posts in a relatively short period of time, and I haven't ever been accused of freeperness. I think a lot of it has to do with FOLLOWING UP ON YOUR POSTS! If you post something, especially a new thread, keep an eye on it until it fades away. If someone questions your motives, and you are not a freeper, you should not be afraid to respond - either thank them for their advice, if it was good advice, or respond with why you think you're right. If you post something questionable and a bunch of folks respond negatively, you have to respond. If you don't, it looks bad for you. It looks like you're baiting.
At one point, I posted something that came across as shady (there was a post saying that the Mall of America may be a terror target), I sarcastically said, hey, if the malls are empty, I don't see a problem with them getting blown up (I don't like malls :) ). My sarcasm wasn't obvious, and it looked like I was condoning blowing up malls. Someone personal messaged me about it, and I realized how bad it looked, and I edited it. That was a lesson learned. Pay attention to the replies to your posts.

That's all.

[lizzie]

28. As a newbie...

I do feel intimidated to post here. I lurked for awhile. Figured out what a freeper was on my own but still don't understand some terms or initials I see. I am pure of heart when it comes to sharing your feelings about Bush and electing Kerry. Most experienced posters here seem very highly educated and well-informed. I kind of think I am too. I wish you could see the LTTE's my husband and I had printed in our local paper today...he's actually much more well read than me...I just go for the throat! One of my main concerns being new is what has been said before...things move quickly here and I have been writing so many letters for Kerry I can't get on the net much. So, I worry about being "old news". I am too sensitive too I know that.

I write...mostly just for me now. (Was Editor if a Union newspaper.) The other night after seeing John O'Neill on Booknotes I was so filled with fury I wrote something unlike anything I've ever written. Prose of all things! It just sort of came out like I channeled some dead pissed off somebody! I sent it to a friend who is a pretty good critic and to my surprise he found it worthy of reading and even found it powerful. (I was shocked!) I don't even let friends read my stuff, but I feel somehow drawn to share with you because I know we share the same feelings about these wackos!!!!! Wish I could but I couldn't handle harsh replies. Guess that comes with being new here. Don't have a relationship to share with you like some I see have.

Thanks for being so welcoming to newbies today!

[Bluebear]

31. A hearty DU welcome, lizzie

We are glad to have you!

[lizzie]

36. Thank you I have enjoyed your posts! (n/t no text?)

[NightTrain]

30. That's good advice!

That was exactly how I conducted myself when I first came to DU. And it must've worked, because now I'm pushing 10,000 posts!

[rbnyc]

32. At the same time...

...we should all remember NOT to accuse people of being freepers or conservative disruptors in the forums. Use alert. Even if it seems clear as day, we don't want to make people feel unwelcome or afraid to express their point of view.

;-)

[MADem]

34. For the next few days

...it would be helpful, though of course not mandatory, to show a little care, concern, tact, and most importantly, UNITY. If a strident or obviously contrary opinion can wait a few days for comment, I'd suggest waiting. Right now, everyone is on high alert, emotions are high, and people are anxious. It really isn't constructive to add to anxiety just because you have an opinion on an issue that can WAIT.

I intend to do my best to work and play well with others through November 3. I will continue to do my best after that, but not with the same degree of urgency that I feel right now.

If you want to blow off a little steam, hunt around on your tv for anything that you see as an unfair representation of our candidate, and fire off a scathing, well argued email. We all have to release our aggressions, but I find it counterproductive to engage in any friendly fire against the home team.

[Robbie67]

39. It seems like you';re advocating that freepers

should hold back and establish their cred before they do whatever they had intended to do

[President Kerry]

40. Freeps can kiss my ass...

the goddamn trolls are not going to dictate what we should and shouldnt post. We have our own rules of conduct and let's keep within that, but letting freeps control our discussion--No Sir!

For those of you trolling right now--SCREW YOU maggots!