The Official "Gray Davis Should Resign" Thread

[Dob Bole]

Is the next person in California's line of succession a Democrat? If so, Davis should resign... but not yet. A resignation would save face and stop the recall vote dead in its tracks... and cause Darryl Issa to lose millions of dollars. Arnold would be forced to run in a legitimate election, and we could be sure that no hanky panky would happen before the 2004 election. Plus, de-funding the right is so much fun...

[CatWoman]

1. Regardless of line of succession

Why, exactly WHY, should Davis resign?

The people just reelected him a scant few months ago.

[Oracle]

20. Right on the money Catwoman!

This is completely Republican bullshit and intimidation.

Because the Republicans didn't like the results of the last election a few month's ago...they want to steal it?

Because the Republican Party as a whole, consist of the very wealthy industrialist and coporate elite, is no reason to allow them to finance recalls and steal Califonian elections, simply because they have the bucks to do it...it's all the more reason to fight for what's right.

(And you know, as sure as your reading this, the Bush people are secretly helping and doing all they can to help steal California back for the Republicans.)

[Hoppin_Mad]

2. Cruz Bustamante

On Puchanan and Press, Press said Davis could resign the DAY before the special election, handing the post to Democrat Lt Gov Bustamante, and they election would HAVE to be called off.

True ?

[ibegurpard]

8. Well, I don't think he should resign but

If the scenario you describe is legit, then it sure would be great to see them pukes having thrown millions of dollars into the toilet for no reason. If I were Davis, I would do it for that reason alone.

[chaumont58]

3. I guess you're saying a repuke can spend 2 million dollars and...

get a two time elected sitting governor to resign. California really would be a banana republic.
Let the repukes go forward with this, and in the words of JEB Stuart, they will regret it but once, and that will be every day for the rest of their lives.

[lazarus]

6. unless

Bustamante immediately appoints Davis as Lt Gov, then steps down, then Davis appoints him Lt Gov. Everything's the same as it is now, but no election.

:evilgrin:

[Hanuman]

33. That won't work.

Davis has already been Lt. Guv for 2 terms- term limits prohibit him from taking that title again.

Also- Davis has to resign BEFORE the votes are certified by the Sec of State. That's the main reason why Shelly is stalling on the counting and certification- hoping that he can buy some time and delay the recall until March.

The best strategy for Davis in my opinion is to resign. Shelly will undioubtedly give Davis a deads up before he actually certifies the count, and Davis will have to decide then.

The fact is- Davis is so unpopular, even among Dems, that he stands an ice cubes chance in hell of surviving the recall vote- especially if a strong and popular challenger (either Dem or Repub) is on the ballot. Remember, he has a 28% approval rating- and this is among both parties.

If he resigns, Bustamonte takes over and the issue goes dead and a Democrat stays in the office.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sierrak9s]

7. Yep

The California Democratic Party should just keep repeating, "Don't throw us into that briar patch!"

[PretzelWarrior]

4. DON'T RESIGN MR DAVIS

screw that tin horn car alarm crook and flabby over the hill terminator. Davis can come out of this looking victimized but victorious.

I hope they succeed in getting it on the spring primary ballot when a lot of Dems will be out to vote on their presidential candidate choice and so it will save Cali some money on the whole friggin' proces.

[proud patriot]

5. the sigs are not verified yet

:shrug:

[GregW]

9. You mean the, Official "Sinking" Thread

There is no reason for Davis to resign. In fact, given the intense media coverage that this farce will generate, Davis should use the bully pulpit to shout how California was ripped off at the instruction of the BFEE.

Do you really think that * and his puppet-masters want Enron, Kenny-Boy, and the Cheney task force dragged through the mud again?

[ronnykmarshall]

10. I don't want a repuke gov.

So if it looks like the recall would pass, I would hope that Davis would step down.

Then let's see the Repukes try and change the rules.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

11. I agree...

...This is not good for us. If he stays and somehow doesn't get recalled, him and his 20% approval ratings will help the repukes gain ground in 2004. If he gets beat in the recall vote, he's out and a repuke is possibly in.

He needs to take one for the team. But I don't think he will.

[CatWoman]

12. Question: do you live in California?

[ronnykmarshall]

14. Are those your kitties?

[CatWoman]

23. Yes, Ronny K

:hi:

From left: Male (Molly), Female (Fee-Molly), Streak and Trinity.

Male and Female are sisters, as are Streak and Trinity.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

16. No.

And I don't live in Georgia either. But that won't keep me from identifying an idiot who's harming the NATIONAL party when I see one.

[CatWoman]

21. Who's the idiot?

Gray Davis?

How is he harming the National party?

:shrug:

[TheUnionDemocrat]

25. Gray Davis AND Cynthia McKinney...

Cynthia McKinney, only to expand apon my earlier comment.


Gray Davis is harming the National Party by not stepping down and getting this over with...He's TOAST! If he's recalled, it's an embarrassing blow to Democrats, and if he stays, him and his 20% approval rating will give the repukes an advantage in 2004 in the Presidential election. Something they shouldn't have in California.

[CatWoman]

28. NOW I know which Union you head

Local 33 1/3; United Disgruntled Flame Throwers :D

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

39. obeying the GOP will harm the California Party and the State in

General. Fight them! never give in and slap down the pink tutu dems who want to do what they're told by Bob Novak

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. You throw the term idiot out to the point of projecting

I LIVE in California and am active in California political circles. Davis is not popular but there are several Republicans running which would dilute their vote. So far the Dems are unified and are not running but that does not mean they will abstain if the writing is on the wall.

There is no reason for Davis to resign, he has not been proven to have broken any laws. Being an unpopular governer is NOT against the law. Furthermore, the arguments about increased spending are baloney. Republicans in the assmebly and Senate voted for the SAME budget the Dems did and had a larger contingency of votes at the time. They are playing Russian roulette with the California budget right now and it is to their detriment. They are a fractured party.

I do not favor Davis capitulating, that is a sign of weakness. If the recall does go forward there will be a Dem that will take the vote from the four Republicans. Camejo ( Green party) did respectably but not enough to prevail in a 5 or six way vote.

Davis has a well oiled PR caompaign and won re-election in spite of his lack of popularity.

While California has had some awful ballot propositions, California is NOT ALABAMA! This recall will hurt Repblicans not help them.

[tinanator]

61. mirror mirror on the wall

?

[Clete]

19. I live in CA and there is a good chance "Ahnold" could get elected

unfortunately. We need to do what we have to, to prevent this. I know Davis will do what he needs to do when the time comes. Although he is more of a backroom politician and lacks the charisma to appeal to the shallow ignoramouses in our state, he knows how to play the game. I think he will survive this.

[mitchtv]

43. that's not what the polls say

and Gray hasn't started to go negative on Arnold yet. I presonally don't think he will put his family though it. He pulled out immediately last time when he heard his past was being investigated.

[Pale_Rider]

57. Ventura vs. Arnold ...

... now that's a match-up! Though Ventura is probably hugely more experienced in running a statehouse than Arnold. Ventura would probably make a much better governor.

Wonder if we can entice Ventura to take Californian residency in a run against the 'Terminator'? I would eat worms to get a front row seat at that election ring.

'Ready to rumble ....'

:evilgrin:

[shanti]

24. funny isn't it?

most of the davis naysayers are NOT FROM CALIFORNIA! hence, i will take it for what it's worth;-) how bout you, catwoman?

[CatWoman]

26. Heh -- well I live in Georgia

and am cursed with Sonny Perdue. :hi:

But I should think this is an issue for Californians to deal with.

Makes sense to me.

You know what they say about opinions and assholes :D

[TheUnionDemocrat]

27. So...

...we're all only allowed to comment on politics within our own states? Is that how it works?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Talking about what you actually know might be a big plus and improve the

esteem in which you are held. I won't hold my breath.

[shanti]

62. thank you

you took the words right out of my mouth! some of us are right in the thick of things and it's insulting to be told this garbage by "outsiders" who don't know the full story!

[blm]

13. NO! It would say Dems can be driven out ANYWHERE!

This is pure Bush2004 dirty tricks to steal California.

[Hanuman]

44. Sorry- No. Bush has nothing to do with this.

As a matter of fact, there are a suprising number of Republicans here in CA who are actively against the recall for the very opposite reason you believe is at play here. And those republicans have asked Bush to intervene and attempt to stop the recall.

Many R's feel that the recall will stand against them in 2004, specifically in the national elections. A weak, unpopular democratic governor may inspire swing voters to vote R and possibly hand the states electoral votes over to Bush.

So, in reality, the recall is not about dirty tricks on a national level. It really seems to be more of a grass-roots effort on the part of disgruntled voters, primarily conservative ones, but not exclusively so.

'Kay?

[dsc]

15. This is no longer about Davis

if it ever was. Davis can not resign unless part of the deal is to eliminate recall forever. If Davis resigns then it will legitimize, once again, a Republican end round of an election. Either elections matter or they don't. If you ever want a Governor to stand up to powerful interests in California again then you had better not let this happen. I don't care if Bustamente is the second coming of King Arthur and Bill Clinton rolled into one. This can not stand.

[salin]

31. In a time of THREE attempts to undo elections - it is hard to see the Davi

recall as anything other than an endrun, as you state.

This isn't a case, such as Arizona a number of years ago, where illegal behavior of the Governor spawned a recall. This is a case of a wealthy republican seeing "weakness" due to a terrible economy that was directly impacted by DC policies (first letting the (company induced/manipulated) energy "crisis" go unchecked for MONTHS hitting manufacturing and business sectors exceptionally hard, and then tax and spend policies that have exponentially increased states burdens for expenditures on programs such as medicaid, special education, etc.) decided to attempt to overturn an election that was held less than 10 months ago.

This action again proves that the GOP no longer believes in democracy, the voice/will of the people and elections. It is outrageous.

For the person above who claimed that Davis was "an embarassment" - I ask - for what? What particular action or statement has he made that makes him a point of ridicule? OR is it that he is caught in an economic mess that was exponentially exacerbated by Bush/Cheney (energy then tax policies) that would make any politician in California unpopular?

I voted for Gov Davis in 1998. He wasn't dynamic, he wasn't incredibly popular (though he sure was more popular than mr moralizing lungren) but he was considered a moderate, middle of the road business friendly candidate. I think the mess he is in is more situational than his being an "awful" governor (I have experience with those having lived under Engler in Michigan, and under a nameless dem in Indiana that has not been evil, but has been so do-nothing for so long that problems that could have been eased were allow to explode).

I am a bit surprised to see some who tend to support centrist democrats as the "winning" strategy, turn on one of the premiere, governing centrist democratic office holders in the country.

[damnraddem]

17. Davis is being blamed for conditions brought on by Republicans:

bad economy, fiscal problems, past energy crisis (resulting from GOP deregulation of CA energy before Davis and a Dem assembly majority took office). Do we really want the GOP to be able to force elected Dems to resign? Is it better for Davis to stay and fight? Or is he so unpopular (and has he done so little that he could do to fight the problems) that it would be better to let another Dem take over. Is the Lt. Governor a Dem? The two positions are elected separately, and CA has had Guvs and Lt. Guvs of different parties before, which made it interesting when a Guv was out of state.

[Dob Bole]

18. Am I from California?

No. I live on the "right coast." :) I was just saying that if it comes down to it and it looks like Davis is going to lose the recall vote, he should resign. It would be a better idea.

[shanti]

22. if you don't live here

your opinion on how our state is run means how much? THANK YOU!

[sierrak9s]

30. Plenty

You're welcome.



Seriously, everybody's opinion matters, because California affects everybody. California's economy is the largest in the Union I do b'leeve. The most recent job loss figures would have posted a net gain in jobs if California's figures weren't taken into account. The national economy depends on California.
I've lived in California for thirty of my thirty-six years. Raised here. Live here now (altho I'm leaving soon). And I welcome all comers in commenting on California politics.

[mitchtv]

40. Never resign! fight them at every turn

if necesary be waiting outside the polls with RECALL petitions.. one for each candidate

[Pale_Rider]

55. And not test out California's new Diebold e-voting machines ...

... in a real election? Phooey ... I would love to see how the e-votes compared to the polls before and after the election, county by county.

[davidinalameda]

29. I live in California

and I think Davis should step down

Just because he's a Democrat, doesn't mean he's not a reptile. There is a very good chance that the Republicans could take the governorship away in this coup. If Davis would have the balls to step down, he could prevent that.

If Simon hadn't been his opponent, he wouldn't have won re-election.

He could take the high road and step down--make the Republicans look like the assholes they are.

[ibegurpard]

32. I want to know if the scenario outlined by hoppin' mad above

is legitimate. If he stepped down just before any special election then could it be a moot issue? I would love to see the repigs gnash their teeth after spending all the money for nothing.

Like I said above, I don't think he should step down. He was legitimately elected and this is just an end run by the repukes...trying to overturn an election they couldn't win fairly. But if it looks like he COULD go down AND the scenario I'm talking about is possible then I think that would be the best solution.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Davis is having the BALLS to stand up...something DC dems could take a

lesson on. That said, he has made some mistakes. As far as being a reptile, he is being lampooned for beating Republicans at their own game...raising MONEY. While I loathe the practice, Californians would do better to put their energy into clean campaigns so the Davis's and Issa's of the planet would be stopped in their tracks.

Regardless, RESIGNING when one has made mistakes but not broken any laws is a sign of weakness. Compare the situation in California with the privatization and corruption of services (such as power and water) in Argentina...then add political upheaval and a coup.

For California to suffer through this upheaval would result in an Argentina-esque scenario with similar instability.

Davis should stand his ground and strike out at the recall effort when the time is right.

For any Dem to favor his standing down at this time is to communicate that one favors anarchy over errors in judgement. Stop and consider which is worse.

[mitchtv]

42. As usual NSMA you say it so much better than I

thank you. I will fight thos pukes at every turn, Brulte Batten and Garcia have to go

[mitchtv]

41. sorry Dwick, have to disagree

next would come recall of Cruz and a humiliating loss in the next election..I'd think Gay people would support our governor,he's signed some pretty helpful legislation. RESIGNATION WILL HAVE THEM SAYING SEE EVEN THE DEMS WANT HIM OUT i SAY WE RECALL THE PUKES WHO ARE HOLDING UP THE BUDGET, MINE i KNOW IS NOT A REAL SAFE PUKE DIST.

[Hanuman]

45. I agree...

I will be voting against Davis on the recall ballot. A candidate doesn't earn my respect because of the letter that appears after his name.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. It isn't about earning your respect. Why do you support a coup?

re you even a progressive? What difference will a recall make towards resolving the state's budget crisis?

Please elaborate.

[Hanuman]

51. "re you even a progressive?"

Some would say yes, others no. Labels don't mean much to me, anyhow, just a convenient way of making quick friends and enemies.

I am registered "decline to state" though I was a Democrat for about 20 years before.

Has Davis done anything that I appreciate and respect? Yes he has. He's signed some legislation I agree with and some I don't. But when it comes to fiscal management, I am not impressed in the least. A Democrat with a brain for money, like say, Dean, would mock Davis's record, as would most Democrats (if they took off their "DEM TO THE DEATH" hats for just one moment.)

All that needs to be said in regards to Davis's fiscal record is this: Since he took office state revenues have increased by 25% while population and inflation has increased by 21%- but SPENDING has increased by 40%.

Is part of that problem the bogus energy crisis? Yes. And it was bogus. Enron and other power generators conspired to screw California, but I and a lot of other people saw this coming a mile away. Why couldn't Davis? Why did he have to panic and sign those contracts? Why? Because he is not a smart man when it comes to money.

Is money everything? No. But it's a BIG BIG factor, and I don't blame Californians one bit for wanting to unelect this man. In fact, I enjoy seeing the people excersizing their rights under the California Constitution to do just that. It's a potent reminder to ANYONE in politics: "You work for us. We can fire you, even if you were 'legally elected.'"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. I take issue with the strict dollars and cents posters.

Part of the reason spending DID increase was because of the shape of our schools, trauma centers and other health care issues when he took office. Years of neglect from his predecessors were what had Californians wish to address these items.

I have many issues with what he has and has not done as well. as far as the energy contracts were concerned, I am less scathing towards him as who the hell would have believed anyone but THE MOST PARTISAN FERC appointees would uphold and force California to honor contracts based on fraud and manipulation. I believe when the matter goes before a court, the contracts will not be upheld. Maybe this is what the GOP fearsand why they want him out. He will pursue it as will Dunne and as will Lockyer.

[mitchtv]

53. Wilson's fault Wilson's fault and then again

Wilson's fault much of the spending was done to correct his mis management - I give Davis a pass on the energy Crisi and stck by Pete Wilson's quote "I take full respons-er credit for deregulation" yeah yeah everyone saw it coming. the f-ing day they signed the legislation is when everyone saw it coming. I say in the absence of a D candidate on the recall, and your announced intention to vote for it , that you sound like a Republican to me, cause No puke will do anything better WILSON< DUKMAJIAN REGAN for disgusting example, and you would chose who? as a replacement, ISSA? ARNOLD? the puke/green mole CAMEJO?

[thebeaglehaslanded]

36. If you think Davis should resign in the face of a recall,

then you must have thought that Clinton should have resigned in the face of impeachment. The recall and the impeachment are the same thing--the repuke response to losing an election and attempting to grab power by any means, legal or illegal, legitimate or illegitimate. You don't combat political terrorism by retreating from the battle field. Davis will prevail and remain governor.

[Hanuman]

47. "Davis will prevail and remain governor."

Nice crystal ball you've got there. Is it always 100% accurate?

[hunter]

46. Oh yeah, Davis should resign...

...I say, snorting coffee through my nose.

You guys are funny.

As I write this Davis is out there with a dumptruck filling Darrell Issa's fancy new convertible with a load of shit.

Listen carefully.... you can hear the Viper car alarm screaching, "I'm full of shit, I'm full of shit!"

[Dob Bole]

50. lol

I'm convinced, though, that everyboady appears to be reading the headline and not my posts. I'm saying he should resign AS A LAST RESORT. Maybe I should change the headline to "Daryl Issa's car is full of shit."

[Pale_Rider]

54. Why should he resigned?

Gray Davis got handed a bad situation where there has been probably one of the greatest transfers of wealth and money between two states in the history of the US.

This transfer of wealth occurred with the energy deregulation fiasco that ex-Gov Pete Wilson and his cronies passed in the California before the Democratic sweep of the statehouse. As soon as deregulation kicked in during Davis' first term, the electrical prices started to go up, PG&E and Southern Edison went bankrupt and a number of politicians, political-economic ideologues, consultants and energy specialists were consulted. By the way both PG&E and Southern Edison had to engaged in some nefarious accounting tricks to preserve some degree of their cash assets. In the end the high-technology economy in California went bust, and the Texas energy-market economy started to make record profits.

Since electricity was fully deregulated in California in 1996, over one-half of that state's electric companies were bought by private companies that are located in either Texas or North Carolina. Theoretically, these companies would compete with those plants still owned by the state in providing electricity to California, thereby driving costs down. However, the opposite has occurred. Because these companies produce over half of the state's electricity, and act as a cartel, California's cost for electric power (using the same electrons and power stations) will rise from $7 billion last year to more than $50 billion this year -- and for less energy.

These higher energy costs represent a massive transfer of wealth from California to Texas and North Carolina. The same is true for natural gas. Davis told Larry King this past Wednesday that the cost of natural gas bought by Californians from Texas energy companies costs $14 per BTU while New Yorkers only pay $5 per BTU from the same companies. Of course, the majority of energy producers In New York state are not headquartered in Texas.
http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/shareef/1248.html

So Davis, in order to restore civil calm and ensure that there was an electrical supply for California, he had to literally sign away California's budget surpluses to out-of-state "power generators" companies, the majority of which were based in Texas and had purchased California's power generation.

Yep the surplus, which would have been very useful now, was indeed squandered on the likes of Enron, El Paseo and Duke Energy. No the real villan isn't Davis, it was Pete 'Send em' home' Wilson, the GOP-led statehouse, and with a very special thanks to Ken Lay and G. Dubya and all the boyz in the white house hood for the massive transfer of wealth!

Californians, get over it, the great Californian budget surplus and economy was squandered and is now gone. You now join the ranks of the majority of states now having to deal with budget problems, in this Bush-managed national economy.

Sure Davis is not the greatest state CEO, but would Simon or Issa be any better? Is Bush a better state CEO than Davis? Would they go back to transfering Californian tax payers money to Texas and elsewhere?

Davis aides optimistic on recall vote
They say it'll be easier than race for governor
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/07/11/MN283801.DTL

FEC postpones decision that could affect Issa's role in recall drive
2:54 p.m., July 10, 2003
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20030710-1454-cnsfec.html
WASHINGTON – The Federal Election Commission on Thursday postponed until next week a vote that might suggest the outcome of an FEC complaint that Rep. Darrell Issa broke the law while raising money to recall Gov. Gray Davis. ....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. I loved your last article

Maybe we can help to raise $3,500 a crack and put even more Repub governer wannabees on the list! :D

[Pale_Rider]

59. No, Jesse Ventura ...

OK, he's a Reformed governor and is currently residing in another state. We would relocate him to California in time to run against Arnold 'Soresinnager' (whatever). But at least he's an Reformed ex-governor with some degree of experience in Minnesota. Would be a most excellent governor election match-up in the entire US of fecking A!

'Ready to rumble ...'

:spank:

But first we need to figure out the California governor residency requirements. If Micheal Huffington can do it, so can Jesse!

[mitchtv]

60. no thanks

keep him in the Midwest. Not Calif stature

[shanti]

63. man, you put everything in a nutshell!

thanks for those links.

[Dob Bole]

58. New Deal for Californians...

Every DUer from California should run AS A REPUBLICAN. (Sorry for the bad word.) This may lessen the chance of a plurality and keep Davis from having to resign. Plus, it would be fun.