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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:43 AM
Original message
You guys, you KNOW they are going to cheat.
They have already begun to. My question is, there is a very real chance * will cheat and he will "win" - come November 3, what do we do?

I've lost two friends, both under age 20 in this war, and neither of them liked * or supported the war. BOTH of my friends had to enlist to pay their college tuition, and both are now in bodybags thanks to this piece of shit. I hate him like I've never hated anyone in my whole life. As far as I am concerned (and no one will ever convince me otherwise), * is responsible for the murder of my two friends. I promised both of them before they were deployed that I would not allow another * term.

What do we do if the unthinkable happens? I just don't think I can accept this again.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. My condolences to your friend..
..as to what we'll do. If he wins legitimately, then all we can do is prevent as much damage as possible. If it's not legitimate..
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hoooo...
Donate to the KE GELAC (lawyer fund) now?
Be prepared to hop in car and demonstrate where appropriate on Nov. 3?
General strike?

That's about all I can think of at the moment....
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree totally.
I will quit buying anything that doesn't pertain to my physical survival. And I will go into debt if I must drive all the way to the opposite coast to sit my ass down in front of the White House to prevent the shrub's re-entry.

I hope a mod sees this:

WHAT IF SOMEONE TRIES TO SABOTAGE DU? WE NEED A WAY TO COMMUNICATE SO WE CAN COORDINATE A MASSIVE PROTEST.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. it wouldn't only be DU...
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 02:02 AM by TrustingDog
but if it is, I heard that Bartcop forums is the secondary meeting place for us.

The scarier question is, how do we meet and where if all the internets are down?
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We should talk about this NOW...
Where and when to meet if the unthinkable happens.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree with all.
I remember the suffagists staked outside the WH with signs in all kinds of weather, all day sun up to sun down. Imagine if all of us, no matter what the costs to our lives, did this.
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. well, I for one,
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 02:07 AM by No2W2004
know of a little place that could be used bit if DU were to go down. We already have a group of DU ers registered. I trust Skinner and Elad will do everything they can and have taken every precaution to keep DU up in case this disaster somehow slithers his way back into the White House.

More to come.....
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks. This has been on my mind quite a bit.
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 02:09 AM by Ladyhawk
I can just see the Internet crashing and not having contact with anyone. :( The only thing I could do is get in my car and start heading for the East Coast.

We could shut down DC with our bodies...spell each other when we need to eat, etc.
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. No problem,
anyone can PM me for more details. Our site is not affiliated with DU, but we have 81 members right now and everyone post on DU as well.

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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. my sympathy on the loss of your friends. Now, get active...
...in their behalf. Everybody can devote some time to the Kerry campaign. Even if it's making a few calls or stuffing envelopes.
I went and volunteered some time in the next two weeks. Stopped at the campaign on my way home from work and got a lawn sign, too.

Now,if the fix is in....I think that will mean we are no longer a democracy and the branches of gov't. have been retooled to send our country to one-party rule, or worse, a plain old-fashioned dictatorship (remember Bush's supposed 'joke' about being a dictator?)
And at that time, we take the whole thing into the streets.

at least, that's my take on it.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I haven't slept a whole night through in over a month...
I have founded a new chapter of the College Dems at my school and been working like mad writing LttEs, volunteering, tabling, canvassing, rallying and fighting the VERY strong College Rs here. Unfortunately, we are a conservative campus and I end up doing 98% of the work alone and paying 100% of the costs out of my own money for copying articles, making signs...

It sounds made up but most days recently I am starting to forget to eat regularly and my schoolwork suffering (which it has been) is the least of my worries. I've been battling a cold for three weeks (it will not go away) and I can't sleep at ALL. When I do, I have terrible, terrible nightmares. When I'm awake, all I think of is that on my worst day I still have it better than those Iraqis who would be lucky to "only" lose two friends in this war, and our soldiers who are ill-equipped and sent to die for a lie.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. In light of your loss, it may be more than just the election.
Bless you for being out there and being active, but given what you've lost recently, you may be suffering from stress and depression. I am not taking anything away from your political activity, but, PLEASE consider making a trip into the students' clinic and getting a screening for depression.

When you report that you are losing sight of things like eating and are having issues with sleeping it makes me worry for you. Please consider making a trip into a Doc--OK?

May your path brighten soon.

Laura
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's so hard for me to read that you lost TWO friends to this atrocity.
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 02:15 AM by Ladyhawk
I know you will do all you can to fulfill your promise...and we have your back.

I've volunteered at Dem HQ and I'm planning to give rides and get out the vote on election day. I've donated $20 here and $20 there to the DNC, MoveOn, etc., which is a lot of money for a disabled person grossing $790 a month. Every time a certain plea speaks to me, I send off another $20. I only hope that others contribute to my spit in the ocean so that it means something.

I've never been so angry in my life. I can't even look * supporting family and "friends" in the eye anymore without feeling sick. I'll leave them behind because we have NOTHING in common anymore. It kills me on the inside--god, how it hurts--but I will throw in my lot for freedom and justice. This sounds so goddamn melodramatic, but the fate of the world depends upon it.

I'm a bit sickly, but I swear on my honor that I will make the ultimate sacrifice if it is needed.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yes, I worked at a poll in Florida in 2000
and saw it happen for myself. I know what they are capable of, and I know the media let's them get away with it. Be a poll watcher; join www.electionprotection.org

And this may sound silly, but it might help (from an e-mail I recently recieved):
Hello dear friends: With only 3weeks before the Presidential election, I felt compelled to share this idea. Together we can do this - and change the world, literally. Here it is:


WHAT TODAYS' MOST SAGE SCIENTISTS ARE SAYING IS THAT WHEN WE FOCUS ON SOMETHING, WE ATTRACT MORE OF IT. SO WITH ONLY FOUR WEEKS LEFT, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE REALLY, REALLY WANT. LET'S JOIN TOGETHER IN THE "60 SECONDS A DAY FOR 3WEEKS CAMPAIGN."

TO TURN THE TIDE NOW, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING UNSTOPPABLE. WE NEED A CRITICAL MASS OF US TO STOP RAILING AGAINST WHAT IS AND REACH FOR WHAT WE WANT. WHAT DO WE WANT?

We want John Kerry as our next President. Give up focusing on George Bush. We don't have to agree with him or support him in any fashion. Instead, we have to turn our thoughts now to something greater. We have to do something unstoppable. In the legacy of Einstein and all great thinkers, we have to harness the power of our thoughts to get the outcome we desire in November.

PARTICIPATE IN THE "60 SECONDS A DAY FOR 3 WEEKS CAMPAIGN." IF ONLY 3 PERCENT OF THE U.S. POPULATION TAKES 60 SECONDS TO DO THIS EXERCISE EVERY DAY, WE CAN MAKE A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE.

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS: FOR 60 SECONDS EACH DAY visualize John Kerry elected as our next President of the United States. See the relief, the celebrations, the excitement, and the sense of fulfillment all across America. See yourself rejoicing with people in your home, neighborhood, and workplace. See us all rejoicing with people all over the world! See John Kerry being sworn into office. Feel the hope, joy, and gratitude. Feel it in your hearts. Believe it is possible. And be sure to vote!

** Now, imagine John Kerry restoring greater well-being in America.
** See people streaming back to work.
** See young students getting the support they need.
** Visualize our teachers, police officers, single mothers, the mentally ill, and many others getting the help they deserve.
** See our soldiers coming home to their families.
** Imagine our leaders establishing greater trust and good will, earning the respect of other nations.
** See peace spreading across the world.
** See the Iraq conflict ending.
** Feel how good it will be for the environment to be protected and renewed.
** See hope rising across the world in the hearts and souls of those in need.
** See these pictures in your mind for 60 seconds every day between now and November 2.
** Be grateful that you have the gift of participating in shaping a greater country.
** Be grateful that you care. Believe that all this is possible, -and more! Please be sure to vote!

PASS THIS ON TO SIX MORE PEOPLE: "60 SECONDS A DAY FOR 4 WEEKS!"
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Jen, you just made my day.
I really like this idea. We can have back-up plans, but I think this idea is EXTREMELY powerful. Would you consider starting a new thread in this forum (and maybe some of the others) about this? I think it's a great idea and something a lot of us can and should do.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Well, I posted "visualize victory" once
in GD 2004, but it dropped like a stone. Maybe the meeting room would be a better place for it?
I haven't posted the election protection site anywhere yet; I guess it deserves it's own thread too. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Feel free to post either where ever you feel it's approprate.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friends.

Hang in there, .
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Aunt Anti-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. Plan of action:
Keep this number handy:
1-866-OUR-VOTE --toll-free Election Protection Voters' Hotline

And read this:
http://legitgov.org/mike_essay_ballot_bullet_refusal_071304.html

Now hear this: Any sign that the election has been stolen again, and we are calling for a complete walkout, civil disobedience, complete refusal and the shutting down of the system, per the Grand Refusal.

(snip)

There are a lot of our concerns addressed in the article and it may come in handy. Let's hope not, though. Just keep talking to anyone who'll listen and convince them to go to the polls in huge numbers!
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illuminaughty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. I've been thinking about this a lot
I mean the fact that I cannot sit here with a few friends on election night and then casually go on with my life if the unthinkable happens. I sobbed like a baby 4 years ago and I didn't have a clue the disaster that lay ahead.

We need a massive plan. I watched the organization of the RNC protests which were well organized. There were half a million people. I saw the impact on Free Speech TV but other than that it was muted in the mainstream. My friends are such defeatists and they said this proved that "they" won.

Protests are great, but this will have to be something like we used to see in the good old days of strikes. When business as usual could be stopped.

Using John Kerry's words "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Well, the last four years have been a mistake. And not one more person on this planet should die because this mistake has been repeated. Sorry for the drama but time is running out.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. I've posted this many times before, here we go one more time:
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 03:45 AM by anarchy1999
Published on Friday, July 30, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Let's Act in the the Democratic Emergency
by Ronnie Dugger

We are in an American emergency. It is the emergency of all our American emergencies. Along with the Civil War, this is our second crisis of legitimacy, but more, it is the culminative crisis of our identity. Are we a democracy, or have we irreversibly degenerated into a Presidential-corporate-military dictatorship? Are we still a good country, or are we becoming a bad country? Can we understand and act in the emergency well and fast enough, or will we lose the United States as we know it?

But as we approach the national election three months away, we have slowly awakened to realize, too, that this quite general American emergency is focusing down into an historic democratic emergency.

Four years ago James Baker, running the Bush campaign to steal the Presidency in Florida, proclaimed there again and again (although few noticed or understood what he was saying) that the "precision machinery" of computers counts and recounts votes better and more accurately than people do. The Bush people achieved what they wanted and asked for, a Supreme Court order that literally stopped the recounting of the votes in Florida. Newt Gingrich followed that up at once, still in December 2000, with a call for a totally computerized votecounting system by 2004.

So what do we have in 2004? One company dominated by Republicans, Election Systems and Software, will count a majority of the 115 million votes that will be cast in its computers. One pro-Republican company, 61 million votes. Another all-Republican company, Diebold, will count 12 million. Almost 100 million votes will be counted in computers that can be rigged, but at least about 62 million of those have paper ballot trails made by the voters. On next November 2nd about 30%, 35 million, of all the votes will be cast on touch-screens and then counted invisibly inside direct-recording electronic computerized voting systems with no paper ballots. This gives the programmers working for the four major voting business corporations the ability to rig the outcomes specifically among those 35 million unverified votes in ways that nobody can see, audit, or recount. There can and will be no manual recounts of those 35 million votes because there will be no paper ballots to recount. Only Congressional passage of bills by Holt in the House, or Graham-Clinton or Boxer in the Senate, early in September, could require paper-ballot trails on these systems, and while a handful of Republicans are among the Holt bill's 145 co-sponsors, not one Republican backs either of the Senate bills. The coming national election is set up to be stolen.

In this narrowing crisis the first thing we must do is stay calm, and the second, stay nonviolent. We should tighten up our whole movement so that out commitment to nonviolence clearly means anti-violence.

We must believe that all this is happening, even though it is amazing and astounding. This is not theory. This is a nightmare, but it is not a dream. This IS unconstitutional usurpation, the arrogant abuse of democratic power, the President's explicitly declared will to dominate the world in our names, the will to wage illegal aggressive war with the seized power of the United States, the will of the President and his junta to kill in order to steal control of the oilfields of Iraq, and now a national election set up to be stolen.

We are taught by our parents to obey the rules, and from grade-school on to obey, that it's patriotic to obey. Now, we must have the courage to do the opposite, to disobey. To march. To resist. To refuse to cooperate. These are our unfamiliar, but sacred duties now as patriots, as American citizens, and as human beings.

But what, specifically, do we do now about the democratic emergency?

John Kerry calls for the recountability of all ballots. The Democratic national platform says all voting systems should be "independently auditable." Many steps are being taken by Kerry and alarmed citizen organizations to tighten voting-system security and to monitor the election that day and night of November 2nd.

But, then, what if it happens? What if analysis shows that the Presidency has been stolen again? Are we going to just sit around agape for another three weeks while the politicians and pundits talk and posture and the networks tell us about some more hanging chads and the Supreme Court gives it to Bush again? "This time we'll all know what's happened, and there will be a serious potential for tragic violence.

Gandhi said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Robert Kennedy said, "The future is not a gift; it is an achievement." Permit me to suggest to you that the peace and justice movement and all the allied organizations and individuals that first cohered powerfully at Seattle should begin planning now what to do if that happens-How to be ready to fully understand, and what to do in, the first 24 hours after the polls close. What then to do as citizens, and as a people. Only if we prepare now to act together then in nonviolence can we head off whatever tragic violence might then occur, while also absolutely refusing to accept the second theft of our government in four years.

Let's brainstorm a minute. I'll start it off, but let's immediately make it a multivoiced, million-footed conversation and set of actions.

Suppose we were ready to judge the election returns with high-quality exit polls reported to us by midnight election night? Suppose, to cope with this democratic emergency, leaders of the people's movement and organizations assemble now, say, a Committee of the Democratic Emergency, or the Committee of November 3rd, which will be prepared to call for the nonviolent occupation of Washington in the event of a stolen presidential election. Only planning by such a broad-based representative of the entire people's movement could possibly fund and master the million organizing details for Nov. 2, 3, and after, that would be required. Arranging in advance for bedding down thousands in the D.C. area. And coming up with a step by step plan, of daily bulletins, websites, demonstrations and marches, public hearings conducted by willing members of Congress and leading citizens, on such subjects as national health insurance, the public funding and public conducting of public elections, a constitutional amendment to guarantee the right to vote and have your vote counted and manually recounted.

"The odds are that this election the window of opportunity will be 24 hours," as Jonathan Simon, a specialist in exzit polling, says. If it comes to that, such a committee might call for the occupation of Washington in the memory and honor of, say, Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Mahatma Gandhi, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther King. Might bring back to life the leading spirit of Reverend King by finally enacting the peaceful occupation of Washington he was actively planning when he was murdered 36 years ago.

We have the movement to do this, the organizations, and we have the living leaders. Who are these leaders? Let me call them out, just a few: Medea Benjamin, Julian Bond, Barbara Boxer, Noam Chomsky, Joan Claybrook, Chuck Collins, John Conyers, Kevin Danaher, Marian Edelman, Daniel Ellsberg, Amy Goodman, Doris Haddock, Tom Hayden, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins, Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson, Jr., James Jeffords, Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Lee, John Lewis, Cynthia McKinney, Michael Moore, Barack Obama, John Passacantando, Chellie Pingree, Kevin Phillips, Carl Pope, Dennis Rivera, Bernie Sanders, George Soros, Howard Zinn- And you could easily come up with an entirely different list of them in ten minutes.

As the great liberated American woman Margaret Fuller said, "It is so hard to prevent one's feelings from evaporating in words." We have to act. As another advocate of planning for November 3rd says, "We need a whole suite of approaches." If you want to do this please tell Dr. Peter Mott of Rochester, New York, who, under the rubric "Save the Election," is collecting the names of organizations and individuals that want to do this, or something like it, before, when, and if worst comes to worst on November 2nd. Peter Mott's telephone number is 585-381-5606, and his email is [email protected].

We the American people are on trial at the bar of history. If we let the Presidency be stolen with invisibly counted votes we're both stupid and supine. If we do not act now against the theft of the election, we may be complicitous in the confirmed incarnation of the first privately controlled dictatorship of the mass mind in history.

No. Consider, instead, that we, and all our good and strong organizations, might decide to form--say--the Committee of the Democratic Emergency, and through it take upon ourselves, if we come to deem it necessary, to declare--say,--a State of Gandhian Noncooperation and Nonviolent Civil Resistance, to declare-say--that the stolen Presidency, and the White House occupied four more years by the usurper, we will Never Accept.

And then, as Shelley visualized, speaking to the garment workers in New York at the turn of the last century-We will rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, Shake our chains to earth

Like dew which in sleep had fallen on you--for We are many, they are few.

Ronnie Dugger ([email protected]) was the founding editor of the Texas Observer, co-founder of the Alliance for Democracy, and a reporter and writer, author of biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Ronald Reagan. This article is an excerpt from a speech the author gave at Fanueil Hall, Boston, Tuesday, July 27 in an event sponsored by Alliance for Democracy, American Friends Service Committee, United for Justice and Peace.

© 2004 Ronnie Dugger

Mods please be generous, this is the Fair Use Act or something along those lines.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0730-10.htm
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. Remember the Philippines in 1986
Marcos rigged the election, but the people didn't recognize it. He fell, with little violence.

Remember Serbia in 2000. Milosevic rigged the election, but the people didn't recognize it. He fell, with little violence.

There are ALWAYS more of US than there are of THEM.

When we know that, we win.
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. They are already cheating, my freind.
First my condolences on the loss of two brave young Americans who were your friends. It is heartbreaking when young people with full lives ahead of them have those lives cut short. I can fully understand your indignation, anger and hurt, and how you are directing it toward the mal-administration. Please use those emotions for good. Do everything you can to get that monkey's son voted out of the WH this November.

That sai, the fix is already in. They are tearing up voter registration forms. Right wing secretaries of state are denying dem applications on pantiwaste grounds, such as a box not being checked or the wrong weight of paper being used. They are rigging voting machines. Down here in Florida, I understand, some supposedly infallible voting machines failed in a test run.

The question is whether Kerry can win by a large enough majority that the cheating won't matter. I doubt that is possible, since the Shrub gets all the free campaign cheerleading he can use from Pravda. Things are going to be ugly on November 3. A very ugly day. You might as well be prepared for it. But in the mean time, do everything constructive that you can to use your painful emotions to make this election fairer. Register people. Challenge bullshit lies. Go to rallies.

And when someone starts spouting off about how perfect this little oil war has been, go off on them. Tell them about the young, hope-filled friends you have lost. Angrily thrust an enlistment form into their snarling faces and tell them to sign up or shut up. And fer Chrissakes, don't EVER forget those you have lost.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. we get pissed
and we stand up like adults and take charge of our own nation again.
election night will be a train wreck of unimaginable proportions, and all holy hell is going to break loose. one way or the other, we have a very rough fall and winter to look forward to.

time to get really righteously pissed. like patriots do
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