Students Watch 'Fahrenheit 9/11' At School; One Parent Upset

[Sparkle]

http://www.click2houston.com/news/3798382/detail.html

BEAUMONT, Texas -- A Southeast Texas businessman is upset that his son's English class watched Michael Moore's scathing documentary on President Bush and his handling of events after the terrorist attacks.

Michael Kurth, a veteran, said he was opposed to the film "Fahrenheit 9/11" based on its R rating and political partisanship. His son Matthew, 17, said that he put his head on his desk and tried to sleep through it. "It bothered me," he said.

Moore's condemnation of Bush's actions regarding the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon became the first documentary to top the $100 million mark domestically. In the film, Moore examines the Bush administration's alleged financial ties to Saudi Arabia and the bin Laden family.

"It is spun to a very liberal viewpoint," the businessman said. "It is absolutely wrong for teachers to take a political position with some of these kids at legal voting age."

--------------

I guess I could agree with the parent. But, imo, the ones that didn't want to watch it should have been excused to the library or something.

[Lefta Dissenter]

1. interesting

His son Matthew, 17, said that he put his head on his desk and tried to sleep through it. "It bothered me," he said.

Maybe if he'd pick his goddamn head off the desk and open his eyes, he'd learn something. Of COURSE it bothered him - it is SUPPOSED to bother people... and make them THINK! Of course, if you're raised in a Freeper family, you are taught NOT to think... :eyes:

[NYC Liberal]

2. "It is absolutely wrong for teachers to take a political position..."

Ahhh, but do you think he'd be saying that if the teacher showed some anti-Kerry movie?

I think not.

[gpandas]

48. no, but duers would.

[madmax]

3. "...Matthew, 17, said that he put his head on his desk

and tried to sleep through it".

By all means, never listen to anything which makes you feel uncomfortable or heaven forbid enlighten. Just like their fearless leader - ignore and deny.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. Trey Parker and Matt Stone would be proud of this kid (nt)

[onehandle]

11. Is this kid 17 or 7? Did he ask for his mommy? nt

[NYCGirl]

4. I'm glad the kid was bothered by F/911

It proves there's a shred of humanity still in him.

It was probably not the best choice of the teacher to show in school (even though I privately applaud that choice). You are right to point out that the students should have been given the choice to watch or not.

[IrateCitizen]

5. No, I actually agree with this parent...

Kids in school are a captive audience. I loved F-9/11, but I also can readily admit that it is spun from a certain POV. Michael Moore has admitted as much, too.

IMHO, there are ways that a teacher can get kids to think on the major issue(s) of the day besides showing them something like F-9/11. In the long run, such an action will only be polarizing and do little to stir a qualitative debate.

ON EDIT: Why was the movie being shown in an ENGLISH class, for Chrissakes? I can understand reading "The Bush Dyslexicon" or "Take Them At Their Words" tying in with an English lesson, but I fail to see how F-9/11 does.

[KurtNYC]

14. I was forced, absolutely forced to listen to Creationism

in my high school biology class. They didn't ask for my parents permission before they let the guy in (not a teacher btw). They just said that the school had given in to demands from the luddites.

To her credit our teacher used the event as a springboard to talk about what it and what IS NOT part of the scientific method. I would think F911 could start an interesting discussion about what is or is not propaganda or more generally persuasive speech.

[IrateCitizen]

19. And do you think that it was right that you were forced to listen to it?

I would say no.

Likewise, I would say that F-9/11 could be viewed in a similar vein. I wholly agree that it is an important film, and forces people to ask a lot of questions about what they believe. However, in this context (a school setting), it will inevitably result in causing many more problems than actually compelling people to question what they are being told.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Who was "forcing" any of those kids to see F911?? How come....

...only ONE parent felt like his son was being mistreated by watching F911?

[IrateCitizen]

34. Kids in school are a captive audience

That's a big issue when it comes to political matters in the classroom. I had a teacher (who I still keep in touch with) for my 12th grade social studies class who was a complete and total liberal, and didn't hide his political views. But they were never given in a way that was along the lines of telling kids what to think. Rather, they were given in a manner that demonstrated how to get involved in the system, and the value of doing so.

F-9/11, with all the attendant baggage, cannot be viewed in this manner. Sorry, but it just can't. Therefore, any required classroom viewing of it by students is not something I'd overly support. I wouldn't want a teacher giving a viewing of Celsius 41.1, either.

As the son of two public teachers, husband to another, and an aspiring one myself, I think I'm moderately qualified to weigh in on this.

[Mike Daniels]

38. If the kids weren't given an option to leave the classroom

and admittedly the article doesn't say one way or another if that was the case, then yes, it could be said that they were forced to be exposed to it.

As to why only one parent complained, who knows? Perhaps the rest of the class wasn't even paying attention to the movie...the school is for disciplinary cases.

[ibegurpard]

55. This is the SAME argument used by the Jesus Freaks

when people complain about the prospect of prayer in schools. A captive audience does not necessarily mean they are chained to their chair but there are powerful forces to keep kids from opting out of something. They don't want to draw attention to themselves or make spectacles of themselves...anyone who can remember being a teenager should know how much of an issue this can be with many kids. If we're going to condone this then I don't see how we can ever bitch when something is shown in the classroom that is harmful to OUR point of view.

[KitSileya]

31. That is exactly how I taught F911 in my class.

I teach English in Norwegian high schools, and I used F911 in class as part of the American civics/election/politics curriculum. They got to see it on their own (it's still in cinemas) and then I gave them both positive and negative reviews, as well as points taken from an article (which I deemed to difficult for them to read themselves) about the propaganda techniques used in the movie.

Of course, my class, a class of HS seniors, are the same age as American college freshmen.

[Paxdora]

41. Two wrongs don't add up to one right...

I agree with IrateCitizen. Showing that film in an ENGLISH class was quite inappropriate. Too bad it wasn't in a civics or history class, thaen the subject matter might have been related in context...

[Mike Daniels]

15. Agreed

Back when I was in high school we had a "current events day" in US Gov't once a week where a certain portion of the class was required to bring in an article of interest that could be opened to discussion.

The article could be of any topic dealing with world or national current events and after the week's assigned students gave a brief summary of the articles the class was open to discuss the articles and give their various viewpoints.

The whole class period was taken up with this discussion and the teacher never expressed her viewpoint one way or another.
----------------------
As a sidenote, I find it funny that people here are totally willing to accept a teacher showing F 9/11 to a classroom without advance notice to the kids' parents but had a major hissy when a teacher posted some pictures of President Bush on her display board and made some pro-Bush comments in class.

Seems that both acts are inappropriate in my mind.

[TexasBushwhacker]

16. I agree, not in an English class

It's more appropriate for a government or some other social studies class. It's rated "R", but it says that the boy was 17, so he can see "R" rated films.

I think it would have been appropriate to allow the students to "opt out" and go to the library and write a report on some other political topic. As a former teacher, I could see showing the film and then having a discussion/debate. Was it "fair and balanced"? Is this propaganda? If it's propaganda, does that mean it's not true? Maybe show some "propaganda" from the other side.

But again, it's not appropriate for an English class.

[bpilgrim]

35. great way to stir-up discussion and debate

all usefully in english class.

I think it is a good idea and when i taught i also looked for provocative, factual materials to use in my english classes.

peace

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. The kid was 17. These weren't middle-school students. They

will be out and voting in another year. They are of an age when they should be learning to examine issues and debate them (perhaps that was the English class tie-in, debate and rhetoric?). The question is, did the teacher take a stand? Or simply present it, and open it for discussion?

The R rating is another can of worms altogether.

[librechik]

6. right, I wish people wouldn't do this in public schools

It's asking for trouble and unnecessary. Political orientation is the parent's job, not the teacher's. This is really Sinclair Broadcasting level behavior, IMO.

I can sympathize with the teacher though--everyone should see the movie really. But forcing it on schoolchildren? Bad idea! Isn't their a permission slip situation routine in this sort of thing?

Wait a minute--this is starting to sound like one of those phony setups designed to make liberals look bad. It's in Texas too!!

DU detectives--try to figure out if some closet republican did this.

[TahitiNut]

17. Charles Dickens is packed with a political point of view.

It's a political point of view that's pertinent to this day, as well. Should Dickens be prohibited reading? How about Jonathon Swift? George Orwell? Vonnegut? Disney?

:eyes:

[IrateCitizen]

27. There's a difference between worldview, and partisan political view...

IMHO, I think that the former is much more effective in getting people to think. F-9/11 comes with too much baggage to be useful in a setting like this.

Dickens, Vonnegut, Joseph Heller, etc., OTOH, can be EXTREMELY effective in getting people to reconsider the way they view the world around them.

[TahitiNut]

37. How about Mein Kampf? Das Kapital? Hayduke Lives?

Where do you draw the line? Any partisan political view that's not connected to and a result of a 'worldview' isn't a political viewpoint at all.

I support teaching contemporary examples of political arts and literature, just as I support teaching the comtemporary connections and impacts of all of history. It's essential, imho, to convey RELEVANCE.

[IrateCitizen]

39. I support exposing kids to all of those, TahitiNut...

And I'm certain that many parents would howl at the exposure of their kids to Das Kapital.

However, Das Kapital is widely recognized as an important piece of history, and therefore should be used.

F-9/11, OTOH, is a brilliant piece of propaganda. It was developed with the sole purpose of swaying people to a particular point of view directly related to partisan politics. I'm not saying there isn't a great deal of factual basis in the film, because there is. However, I recognize it for what it is, which makes it something that is not entirely suitable for the classroom during regular hours. I would have no problem if the teacher offered a showing of it outside of school hours, because the "captive audience" factor would no longer be relevant.

[TahitiNut]

42. "... one nation, under Gawd, ..."

Tell me that's not a partisan political ceremony: McCarthyism. :evilgrin:

[IrateCitizen]

44. Absolutely it is...

Personally, I prefer the original version of the Pledge much more, written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a socialist Baptist minister:

I pledge allegiance to my flag, and the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty, justice and equality for all.

But I'd never compel people to say it, either way. I'd prefer they be forced to read and recite a part of the Constitution every morning.

[TahitiNut]

46. As you surely know, we agree on that.

My point is that contemporary political partisanship already pervades the school system - from McDonald's fast food in the cafeteria to the Pledge to sex education to the various kinds of literature "permitted."

When I was in school (during the "red scare" 50's), the best courses I had were those that made contemporary connections. In civics, we were required to gather, read, and critique newspaper articles and editorials. English literature is overwhelmingly infused with political viewpoints ... from Beowulf to Toni Morrison. To ignore the fact that the major and predominant political schism has always been and continues to be one of mythical 'class' and 'privilege' is to ignore the elephant in the bathroom. That's not education; that's schizophrenia.

The problem isn't in what's included or excluded - it's in including some of these (the pledge, fast food, etc.) with absolutely no acknowledgement of various alternative viewpoints. When something is included in the indoctrination as though it's not even arguable, that's the real problem.

[librechik]

58. yeah, and we shouldn't be sinking to that level with our own info

I took my kids out of the public schools because of the jingoism there, but I don't think it's right when we do it either. If there was a chance for parental permission (to protect the teacher from legal action) and kids whose parents didn't sign can be excused, then go for it. This seems a hair out of line, IMO.

As far as Dickens goes, that's 150 year old propoganda--many of those ills have been remedied. Let's discuss that openly in class with all the implications and without permission slips. F 9/11 is just too controversial to air without the parents saying yes. I don't want Michael to be skewered over an incident like this! Would the parents not n=blame the Kerry campaign? Although he had nothing to do with it?

I'm just saying this looks IMO like a provocateur incident to stir up public opinion against Mike and Kerry. We should beware!

[NYC Liberal]

18. Guy is a Repuke:

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=Kurth&txtState=TX&txtZip=77713&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&txt2000=Y&Order=N

Contributor
KURTH, MICHAEL D MR
BEAUMONT,TX 77713

Occupation
MICHAEL`S CUSTOM CONTRACTING/OWNER

Date
3/22/2004

Amount
$500

Recipient
National Republican Congressional Cmte

I think the teacher shouldn't have shown it because, as you say, it's just like what Sinclair is doing. BUT, this guy's only motivation is that it criticizes his beloved leader...no doubt about it.

[librechik]

61. Very interesting! His motivation is other than free speech, perhaps

I wonder if he showed anti-Kerry stuff too?

This incident raises a lot of questions!

[LibLabUK]

7. Hmm

"I guess I could agree with the parent. But, imo, the ones that didn't want to watch it should have been excused to the library or something."

There's too much cherry-picking of information done in modern life, thanks to the internet. People are able to be far more selective in which opinions they are exposed to, and this only stifles debate.

How can you make your mind up about something if you only ever read, watch or listen to opinions and ideas that support your preconcieved notions?

I think schools have a duty to present differing opinions, and the people trying to stop them are the modern-day equivalent of bookburners (neo-bookburners?).

That's not to say that I agree with the showing of F9/11 in the school, but some of the themes and ideas could have been discussed in the classroom maybe supported by excerpts from the film.

[MatrixEscape]

9. Sheesh!

If you are going to oppose or stand against something, you should AT LEAST know what it is you are against. Ignorance is surely stupidity in this case!

People who dwell in ignorance and stand on nothing but stubborn bias as a platform barely deserve the Republic and the Democracy our Forefathers gave them. Maybe they don't deserve it at all?

I have spent much time reading up on the current Right, the Religious Right, Neoconservatives, and the Bush Agenda(s) to know where I stand in relation to them.

Ah, blind faith! That's the big problem, no matter where you stand.

[mhr]

10. English Class, Civics Class, History Class - All Of These Subjects

involve politics - just because one does not like politics is no excuse for not learning about it.

Seems to me that Moore's movie is a perfect vehicle for discussing many themes found literature and history.

Good vs Evil
Strong vs Weak
World Opinion vs State Opinion
War vs Pacifism

[cmd]

12. Matthew is 17, if he turns 18 before Nov. 2

he could vote. There are other students in this class who will be voting this year. The teacher may also have shown or be planning to show a right leaning movie. Lots of judgement to be made here. Lets find out more facts.

And a special note for Matthew: Get ready for the visits by the recruiters, you will soon be 18. Will you put your head down and try to sleep then?

edited subject

[TahitiNut]

13. The principal didn't know about the "R" rating?

Even though the principal 'previewed' part of the film, he didn't know the rating? Sounds like someone needs remedial reading. No film's rating has been as publicized since Midnight Cowboy.

This is also interesting:

"Pathways is an alternative school for students moved from their home campuses for disciplinary reasons. Kurth said his son is at the school for 40 days after having too many tardies."

I'd say Kurth Fils' disciplinary problems aren't much of a surprise given Kurth Pere's addiction to Kool-Aid.

There're retards and there're retardies. :silly:

[lawladyprof]

20. I do think it is suitable for English class

If the intent was to show examples of persuasive techniques used in film/video. But should have been balanced by pro-Bush stuff with the persuasive elements in each pointed out.

[Paxdora]

49. Nope...

that would be fine in a Cinema class or Media class, but NOT English, which properly deals with grammar, writing, literature, reading skills, etc.

But don't get me wrong...I think every American kid should be exposed to Michael Moore's propaganda (I'm willing to admit it!) to offset all the crappy fluff and NON-news that kids are bombarded with on a daily basis. A slice of REALITY is what has been sorely lacking in our spoon-fed society today...imho.

[jdsmith]

60. Film is literature

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Sounds like the boy needs some discipline at home, and his father...

...should be the one taking care of it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. Maybe the kid thinks he's going to inherit what his father leaves behind..

...and doesn't feel that he has to bother his beautiful mind about education or why we're in Iraq.

Wait...that sounds like a familiar story...where have I heard that before?

[Sparkle]

33. I thought of that too.

His son was in a school for kids with disciplinary problems. If he had been THIS concerned about what his child was learning at the regular school, then maybe he wouldn't end up at the school he's at now.

[FatSlob]

22. Moore=best propagandist in years...inappropriate for school.

Michael Moore is the best propaganda film maker since WWII. I'm glad he is on our side. However, his films should not be shown in school. They are too partisan. Teachers should do their best to remain neutral in class.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Yeah...who wants to hear all of those facts packed into MM's films...

...just too partisan and it might just save a lot of lives.

Who wants to save lives anyway? Who really wants to do the right thing...just too boring to contemplate, I guess.

Hey..while you're worrying about F911 being shown in one school, the rightwing fundies have been taking over the curriculums of HUNDREDS of schools nationwide to include the banning of books that are considered classics. Doesn't THAT bother you, or doesn't that count?

[FatSlob]

29. Of course it does. Why would you think it doesn't?

My comments were limited to a single subject, MM's film in school. Please, try to pay attention, and read carefully.

[Mad_Dem_X]

30. Bravo!

F9/11 is full of FACTS...cold, hard FACTS that Freepers do not want to acknowledge. Burying your head in the sand (or, in this case, on your desk) will not change what this corrupt administration has done to our country! Some people need to WAKE UP.

[Vickers]

23. Go nap in Fallujah, Freeper-spawn

:eyes:

"Michael Kurth, a veteran..."

Yeah, I'm a veteran, too. Fuck off.

[Geek_Girl]

25. It's a tough Movie to Watch

But the Kid is 17 years old. I think if he was younger I might object too. But it's important that young people get a broader perspective of the world around them. I think this movie goes a long way in doing that.

In college you get that broader perspective. If this happened in a college setting it wouldn't be an issue.

I just wish some adults I know were forced to open their minds and get a different perspective.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

32. Facts have absolute value, they aren't 'political.' My mother teaches this

A teacher's job is to teach, whether the facts are ugly or glorious.

My mother is a college history professor. She prefers to teach kids (yes, 18-22 year olds are kids who go to war) how to think so they can connect the dots for themselves.

She agonizes over sharing FACTS that point to the White House lying to create a personal war for profit because she doesn't want to 'politicize' the class. Classes have itnentionally been made 'reality no-go zones.' That is, if the class actually affects how the kids behave, then it is too 'political.'

But she also sees her students dying in Iraq and others needing time off from class to go to their funerals.

I tell her that facts have an absolute value beyond 'politics' and it would be immoral NOT to share them with kids who are lied to non-stop in the media.


The facts are getting uglier and uglier and blaming the messenger is an old tactic that is easily seen through.

[cmd]

36. Hey, Matt, the recruiters are coming to your school

Enjoy your nap.

[hlthe2b]

43. Yeah, these are the same parents that would argue against Schindler's

List being shown.... More freepers looking to prevent any truth and social discussion/debate in the schools.

[tinanator]

45. I think they would all prefer My Pet Goat

as read by our fearless leader.
this board is overrun. will the masks ever fall?

[alcuno]

47. Before I can comment, I need to know the context.

I'm a teacher and we are told repeatedly that movies need to be in context to the curriculum. Were they learning about elections? I don't believe that F 9/11 would be a good source for that.

What was the point? I loved F 9/11 but I can't imagine a scenario for showing this movie in a public school classroom for any age.

[Paxdora]

50. Context is everything...

otherwise it has no relevance and may do the opposite of what was intended.

[alcuno]

52. Exactly. VERY infrequently will movies be used as a "positive reward."

Even then, I can't imagine picking F 9/11.

[bpilgrim]

53. the first documentary to earn $100,000,000 seems worthy

of discussion to begin with and what impact the film and the language used in it will have on our society and the election, if any.

i think an educator would be remiss to ignore this important film in todays society.

now if the teacher was showing it just to 'pass the word' i would have a problem with it but as you say we should reserve judgment till we have all the facts at hand.

I am certainly surprised by everyone coming down on this educator with only little to no context and just one side of the story, but hey, thats what we've been trained to do in america, eh :shrug:

peace

[skygazer]

51. Tough one

But ultimately, I don't really think it was any more appropriate than the teacher who was supposedly "fired" for having the photo of Bush in her classroom. According to the press release from the school, it was not because of the photo but because she was engaging her students in partisan politics, specifically ridiculing Democrats and lauding Republicans. That's wrong and it doesn't belong in school.

F911 is a great movie and it's filled with valid facts but it's also a polemic against George W. Bush which makes it a partisan viewing. I would object to the kids reading "Unfit For Command" as well. I don't think it's appropriate.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. That "R" rating was complete BULLSHIT.

F 911 is no worse than what we see on the nightly news. It's REAL. It's not made up gore for the sake of gore....it's reality. I, for one, want my son to see what war IS. He needs to know what it looks like. He needs to see that real people die, innocent people die and war is NOT the way to solve our problems. Any kid who didn't want to watch the film should have been sent to a study hall or library, but I do not believe the teacher was wrong to show it. It's a current event. The students NEED to see this. They need to know how their corrupt government operates. Perhaps it will motivate a few of them to get involved with their government. That dad is a RW jerk who is once again trying to stop free speech. The repukes just need to deal with REALITY! This movie, F 911, is NOT going away. DEAL WITH IT!

[baldguy]

56. "It bothered me,"

I got news for you, young Mr Kurth -

!!!IT IS SUPPOSED TO BOTHER YOU!!!

The very idea that The President is a criminally negligent fool would "bother" any sane person!

[maxsolomon]

57. my 16 y.o. stepdaughter was asked to watch it OUTSIDE of class

by her lefty american history teacher. that seems fine.

she was over her dad's when she did, but she reported that she cried.

a lot.

dead babies will do that.

[librechik]

62. this use of the film seems appropriate

with a voluntary discussion in class afterward.

[oldlady]

59. My son's class watched "In Plane Site"

in class & I know others who took it to another school to show in ENGLISH class. If it comes from students, I think there's more leeway, because the discussion is student-centric. Then again, the kids I know are kinda radical...
this year they've also watched "Super-size Me", "Unprecedented", "Uncovered", "The Fog of War" & "Hijacking Catastrophe"--- it's a Friday discussion day thing.

btw Kids who are 17 can go to R movies...

[librechik]

63. awesome--something tells me you aren't in Texas!

sounds like an interesting school. I agree with the student thing, but still would want to cover my ass with a permission slip waiver if I were the teacher.

Wouldn't it be great if all schools were that free?

[Downtown Hound]

64. When I was in school

we went on a field trip to see Schindler's List. We watched documentaries on the My Lai massacre. At one point we even watched Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory in history class. No one raised any objections.

It's only because F/911 is recent and dealing with current events that this is controversial. I applaud the teacher for showing it. These kids are not stupid, they can see it and make up their own minds.

I applaud it even more because these kids are of military (draft) age. They need to see more of the human cost of this war than the media is showing them.