SIGH...how do you solve a problem like a wingnut parent? Ya DON'T

[greekspeak]

I was talking to my father about his upcoming visit next weekend, and of course he had to gloat about how well Shrub did and how badly Kerry did. Whatever. Right. As if I did not see Shrub self destruct. He did critique Shrub's behavior, but swept it under the rug as unimportant. What is really important is that Kerry is a flip-flopper. Then I mentioned how the Puke leaning Gallup chose the audience. "What?," he says. Then I explain to him the abberant Gallup polls, the corporate mindset, the stacking of the deck in favor of Pukes. Then he accuses me of slandering Gallup! And then he reports to me that all the polls are wrong, even Gallup, because Shrub's real lead is twice what Gallup is reporting! Uhhh-huhhh...

Then my father, more or less a low wage slave for the company for which he works, started going on about malpractice. These poor doctors only clear about $8,000 a year (!) after they pay the help, rent, and malpractice insurance. And that is after 12 years of school. I then pointed out to him how the doctors he knows all live in luxurious houses, drive nice cars, and work 4 days a week. To which he responds, "If they worked anymore, they would only clear about $2,000 a year."

HELP! My father needs a Kool-Aid anitdote! Talking to him and pointing out facts does nothing. Reason does nothing. Beleive me, I have tried. I guess it is a lost cause to try to change minds that warped. :eyes:

[leftofthedial]

1. sorry greekspeak

but your dad is mentally ill.

you might try an intervention with a mental health professional

[greekspeak]

2. The kicker is that he is not a stupid or irrational person in general

But he is so steeped in the politics of the right that he simply cannot function outside that millieu.

[helnwhls]

6. I know what you mean...

In all other aspects my Dad was thoughtful and precise. Always looking at the long term, but he bought the lie of the republicans hook line and sinker, "one day you will get to step up on the backs of others, like we are using your back to climb up on". Argh argh argh. Still drives me nuts to even think about it.

[acmavm]

3. Forget it, my Mom's the same way. I sit and wonder what happened to

her and I realize that she just doesn't want to look reality in the face. She's on Social Security (and is justifiably upset that she barely gets enough to live on), Medicare, and lives in an old croak's highrise. When asked why she supports bush* all she says is "I haven't seen anyone else who can handle the situation like he can." When I ask her to explain what she could possible mean, she refuses to discuss it.

She makes me so mad that I avoid talking to her. She's 76 years old and I worry about her time left. But any discussion just leads to hard feelings and an argument. So I've decided to just leave it alone.

You know what's funny about all this? My Dad (dead now) was always angry, and brought up for years, that my Mom's vote for Adlai Stevenson cancelled out his vote for Eishenhower. As John Kerry would say, "go figure".

[greekspeak]

5. Sounds so familiar

My dad hits 70 in January. And he has voted for dems in the past. I beleive that he voted for Kennedy on a drunken dare. He is not at all well off, and has parkinsons disease. He thinks that little prescription drug benefit is manna from heaven.

[helnwhls]

4. I feel your pain,

Agree to disagree is all I can tell ya. My dad died last year. He was a hard core ditto head. We stopped talking politics when I was 10. At that age, I reasoned if I hid the National Review magazines from him, he would stop thinking that way. It did not work, but at least he learned that I had my own opinion. I made sure that whenever he started spouting particularly lie ridden crap from Rush or Bush (like that doctor crap), I did not refute anything in anger. Sometimes I would just walk away, like I would turn off that crap if it came on TV. I would wait and make sure that I had my facts lined up. I prefer to state my case without the emotional bullshit the right likes to wrap up lies in. It did not always work. But I also can not remember the last time I had a shout off with my father.

The bummer is, now that Dad is gone, my Mom who always leaned liberal has gone knee jerk right wing, as if in memorial to Dad. Talk about creepy. I just tell her I will not discuss politics with her because she is not researching her opinion. It sounds cold and it is, but I will not have my 70+ year old mother try to tell me to vote for Bush cause her priest told her to.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. There's not one damn doctor in MY community

who lives in a house worth less than $500,000. They're mansions. I have a REALLY hard time feeling sorry for them. Their sob story is a crock of shit.

Maybe tell your dad how the chimp will ruin YOU. How old are you? 18-34 year olds will be drafted. The chimp's a liar..he'll have a draft. Would your dad CARE if you were drafted with NO deferments for ANYONE? Would THAT matter to him? Tell him you will have to leave the country if the chimp wins because you will not be drafted. Would he miss you? Would he CARE if you left the country? I think you're going to have to think of something that would affect YOU or HIM. That's the only way freepers will change their minds, if it affects THEM or their family.

Did you tell him that Gallup is owned by repukes?

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. I'm so glad my parents are dems and Kerry supporters

as is my sister and brother. I can't imagine what you must be going through with your dad. Maybe refrain from discussing politics with him? :shrug:

[Skittles]

11. that's what I would advise

you can't choose your family, but you can choose what to talk about

[helnwhls]

16. well said...

...I'm gonna use that one. :toast:

[PittLib]

9. Anytime I hear someone talk about doctors ...

I have to bring up a couple points. First, I have a die-hard repub friend, who happens to be an ER resident, and is voting for Kerry (based mainly on separation of church and state, but also abortion and stem cell research). I even got him out to a Dean rally the other day. Second - Although I don't understand the fine points of the malpractice issue ... I know that it is enough to warrant a conservative vote, by most doctors' standards. It does effect their livelihood - but the tide is turning. Many of these highly educated people can no longer ignore the fact that Bush* is a disaster. My friend jokes about his daily conversions - although he still gets a kick out of pissing off the die hard dems. He is very politically aware and I think he's having an impact.

edit to add: My other view is on the "poor doctor" issue. I wait on doctors during their lectures which are paid for by pharmaceutical companies. Do you want to know why your drugs cost so much? Research and development, my ass... marketing, marketing, marketing - which includes regularly shelling out $100 a head for dinner. Granted, a number of companies have cut back considerably - but the big ones remain. It is not unusual for a doc to try to order a $50 scotch or port - I usually serve a less expensive substitution, and they are none the wiser. One doctor took the liberty of ordering a $400 bottle of wine for himself, on the company's tab, unbeknowst to the rep. The other day, when I told a doc that I could not serve him a bottle of champagne per the rep's orders, he bellowed, "WHAT! Do you know how much drugs cost?!" (incredulous that they would put limitations on him). If I didn't have a mortgage, I would have replied - "No, but my grandmother sure did" (she died in '02 after battling COPD for 12 years). The situation is nauseating.

[wildeyed]

10. My father-in-law is like that.

He can't be helped so I don't waste my time talking politics with him.

[neebob]

12. My mother is also incurable

and our relationship is pretty well screwed right now - mostly because I made the mistake of being honest about my dad, but also from arguing about politics and religion. It's all mixed together in her mind. The chance of getting through a conversation without arguing is about 1 in 10. So we don't call each other. It bothers me, but I don't see any way around the impasse and the risk of another argument is just too high. It always gets worse.

[donheld]

13. i'm so sorry greekspeak

My mother is the same way. I think if bushie ate a live baby on national TV she'd find some excuse for him and keep on loving him. Now Clinton she still hates him for his "immorality." Seems these day's sex is the only morality there is. And she's a good "christian" lady.:eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Ya know, it just occurred to me...

that all those elderly people (thank goodness none of my elderly relatives are that way) who love Bush as "a good Christian" and hate Clinton for "immorality" are still suffering "future shock" from the sexual revolution.

If you weren't around when the sexual revolution happened, you cannot imagine what a shock it was for my parents' and grandparents' generation. In 1968 or so, Barnard College (then the women's college division of Columbia U.) actually expelled a student for living off campus with her boyfriend--and most of the country applauded. Within three or four years, most campuses had coed dorms, but I can recall a time when the very idea was shocking. If you're young, you probably have never heard the term, "they had to get married." That was the euphemism for "the bride was pregnant at the time of the wedding." The double standard was in full force--an unmarried non-virgin woman was a slut, period, according to the system of morality promoted, although not necessarily practiced by Middle America.

The Republicanites long ago caught wind of Middle America's bewilderment and anger at the social changes of the late 1960s and early 1970s, and Reagan was the first to take full advantage of this mindset.

Clinton's misadventures with Monica Lewinsky provided the Republicanites with another opportunity to cast themselves as the party of morality. Now they're evidently attracting the devotion of a lot of old people who are disappointed with the way their lives have turned out and angry at the world, and who still haven't gotten over the sexual revolution.

[-democratic-lady-]

14. It sounds like a helpless cause

I have friends and family who are the same way... trying to push your views on them (even if you're right) doesn't always work. I just drop hints here and there hoping they'll eventually see what's right!

[jonnyblitz]

15. I don't talk to either of my parents at this moment for this reason.

This is my choice for now. perhaps after the election I will change. I have no patience for IGNORANCE at the present time.

[NuttyFluffers]

17. say he's suffering from premature Alzheimer's?

tease him often enough that he starts to question his reality. subtly hint after another of his ridiculous assessments that he 'might be ready for a "home"'. slowly but surely it'll destroy his faith in his self-righteousness.

but that's if you want a solution. if you want to be a good filial son, then just grin and bear it with polite forebearance... i'd, personally, cast doubt on his sanity. it's the healthier option - cruel to be kind, sometimes.

[pffarrell]

18. It's the opposite in my family

My Mom's the one who can't stand Bush, and my brothers keep
pestering her with their RW views. Really weird, I stil don't
get how someone my age can be a wingnut

[PittLib]

19. your mom must be a smart lady!

Welcome! :toast:

[ismnotwasm]

20. My Dad is similar

But as I've grown older, and gotten to know him a little better, I have found interesting reasons for him being the way he is---used to be a Dem, until the unions pissed him off. He has surprised me on a couple of issues. Although he calls gay people "queers" and "perverts", in serious discussion, he thinks gays should be allowed to marry--thinks it would make the "institution" of marriage stronger. So I can't write him off as a total loss just yet...

[PittLib]

21. My dad is very anti-union as well ...

we sold our family business due to union problems and he remains resentful. I don't fully understand, but I support unions - at least theoretically.

[cheezus]

23. go vote early on nov 2, then keep him home all day

take him out for lunch and lots of drinks.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

24. If that was my father I'd tell him to quit acting like a moron

and get a brain.