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oh my fucking god...i just watched one of the beheading videos.

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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:07 PM
Original message
oh my fucking god...i just watched one of the beheading videos.
why the hell are we in this country...we need out NOW. i'm literally sick to my stomach

:puke:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why would you watch that?
Why did you feel you needed to see that?
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Artemis Bunyon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Human nature.
Sad but true. I do it too.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I GUESS I MUST NOT BE HUMAN
:puke:
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. Same here.
I refuse to give the terrorists the satisfaction of having that effect on me, and it would make me sick.

And piss me off.
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. Yes it is human nature
and I don't think we need be judgmental over someone's choice to view beheadings. If it was done with sadistic glee, that's another story.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. morbid curiosity. a friend sent me the link. nt
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. which one was it?
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. i forget the name, one of the american hostages. he was bald.
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Are you nuts?
I saw a little of the fuzzy video of Afgahni throat slitting and that was horrifying.
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. I came across a post here a few weeks ago about how watching
one of the decapitation videos would irreversibly change you. I have to agree.

Let me just say that I am not one to be queasy about anything. I'm the type who can eat a sandwich during an autopsy.

When Daniel Pearle was murdered, I made the mistake of seeking out and watching the video. I cannot begin to describe what I felt. It was the most gut-wrenching thing I've even experienced. It gave me nightmares well afterward and I'm certain that I will never fully get over it.

I think what I find so hard to reconcile is not the act itself, but that someone would be willing to carry it out. The complete lack of humanity is so unsettling...
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yes, that was what horrified me so.
i don't want anyone around people like that.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I watched the Daniel Pearle video too...
... and it haunts me to this day.

Every time I hear of another beheading, the grotesque image of Pearle jumps into my brain. It will never, ever leave my memory.

I am sorry I watched it. And I am not sorry I watched it. But I will never watch one again.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. the daniel pearle video is the first and last one I watched...
that was enough for me.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. I could never watch that. I knew Daniel Pearl and his family.
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 04:45 PM by SharonAnn
I worked with his mother and knew him and his two sisters from the time they were in Junior High.

Wonderful family. Wonderful people.

Horrible, horrible death.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Lack of humanity? Beheadings are pretty standard human practice
It's been only in the last century or so that we've become offended by such things.

Think "French revolution".
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MUSTANG_2004 Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. There's a difference
A quick execution is different than sawing someone's head off with a knife.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
58. Sure there's a difference, but it's not a "humanity" sized difference
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 05:56 PM by 0rganism
Hangings and electric chairs and firing squads aren't always quick.

Watching your life slip away after a bomb rips half your body apart isn't quick.

Burning someone to death with napalm isn't quick enough.

These are things that HUMANS do to each other. No other species does it. These are exclusively human behaviors.
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Sorry, I must have missed the videos of the French Revolution.
For better or worse, in America, the practice of beheading has been buried beneath two centuries worth of progress and civility.

Whenever, where ever or on whomever this is being practiced, it is inhuman.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. Now that is just bullshit
I won't even bother posting the links to American lynching photos that go well into the 20th century...

You seem to think that we have a shortage of good ol' American killers in these here United States.:eyes:
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. What is bullshit is the idea that there is any real relationship between
our current societal norms and sawing someones head off with a knife in front of a video camera. THAT'S bullshit.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. No, your statement is what I call "bullshit"
"For better or worse, in America, the practice of beheading has been buried beneath two centuries worth of progress and civility."

http://www.americanlynching.com/photos-old.htm

yee-haw
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Whatever.
If you want to believe there is a rash of beheadings taking place in 21st century America, that is your right. I must have missed the telecast. I stand by what I have posted.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. ever seen an execution
everyone thinks that lethal injections and electric chairs are painless ways to go - they're not.

Personally I can't say the beheading video I watched (the Berg one and only because there seemed to be many questions surrounding it) had any long term effect on me, I don't know whether it's because I've seen plenty over the years - in the Amariya Shelter photo's you could easilly make out blackened human skin that was melted into the walls for example.

I don't think it's because I'm cold - I cry most nights when watching the news but I also know humans have been brutalising each other for their entire history, I also know that when you see bombs getting dropped in Iraq (or the light traces anyway) that underneath that there are people being torn literally to pieces, and bleeding to death amongst the rubble.

Things aren't anymore horrible because I've seen them on a grainy video.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. So what? This isn't America we're invading.
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 06:06 PM by 0rganism
Using "inhuman" to describe the people one is bombing is certainly a time-honored means of dodging responsibility for "collateral damage", though. I'm not surprised to see it cropping up all over the place now, even though our good friends the Saudis practice beheadings and amputations as part of their "justice".

Is burning a village with napalm a sign of progress and civility, or is it inhuman?

Is irradiating our own army a sign of progress and civility, or is it inhuman?

Is force-marching milliions of Native Americans to "reservations" a sign of progress and civility, or is it inhuman?

This alleged "inhumanity" persists throughout -- and is pretty damn near exclusive to -- humanity, and it doesn't stop at our border.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. Was Pearle beheaded? It was stated on the news his throat was cut.
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MUSTANG_2004 Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Sort of
I think they decided his throat was cut beforehand, and then they decapitated his corpse for the camera.
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GoBama Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. The last one I saw was horrible....
much worse than Nick Berg.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have yet to see one
The stills are bad enough. i don't want stuff like bouncing around in my subconcious.
Sufice it to say I know this is going on. We don't need to be there.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. I can't even stand to think about it, much less watch it.
Even the news clips that showed the hostages during their captivity were immensely unsettling to me. It is horrible.
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librarycard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just READING about that video has caused me to lock my work door
at all times, because, god knows, the US won't be negotiating for my well-being.

The description of the video made me put down the newspaper, half nauseous. I could never ever watch it. That's just me.
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. It will be like a stain on your mind for a day or two
But it will subside...

That's how it was for me after watching the Berg video.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. i'm better now...watched lotsa family guy to get it outta my head. nt
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Let us not forget...
That this is the murderer who the Pentagon had in their sights THREE times, and Chimp declined permission to take him out. The blood is on B*'s hands as much as the man with the knife.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. It might be worth watching one...
(note: some may be best advised not to read this)

...just to remind yourself that this is what B* has done. He had three opportunities to remove this murderer from the earth, and avoid this. But he chose NOT to, but rather to allow the murder these innocents, our military innocents, and Iraqi innocents by the thousands, instead.

The video is shocking, sickening, ghastly and horrific to watch. It brings real-time murder and killing and pools of blood right into your lap.

I think it is about the closest we can come to experiencing the real killing going on, many thousands of times over.

As gruesome as it is to say, I wish everybody, especially B* supporters would watch one, and see what their "president" has caused. What he declined to avoid, by going to war instead of removing this madman, as was offered to him.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Al Zarqawi?
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
53. He must be connected
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 05:49 PM by libhill
to the Bin Laden family - I mean, you can't expect something as petty as a beheading to disrupt business, can you?
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. I am avoiding all such videos.
I know I would never be able to forget the images.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Me 2
Terrorists want you to watch them. That's their agenda.

No thanks for about 1,000 different reasons.

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Please read #15 & #20
"Terra", remember.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. The families will never forget their deaths.
Chimp had an opportunity to nail this murderer three times, but skipped it.
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NervousRex Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. It took me weeks...
to get over the one I watched. I would highly recommend NOT watching any of these vids. It will haunt you.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Recall "Faces of Death"?
I remember when the video (and all of its numerous sequels) was all the "rage." Everyone was talking about it and renting it.

It's human nature to be curious about death and specifically the means of death. Watching someone die before your eyes is damned unsettling, though.

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NervousRex Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. F.O.D.
was hilarious...at least the one I saw...most of it was fake, and the real footage was generally benign crap, like autopsy footage. These beheading videos are horrifying, nightmare-fuel.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I don't rubberneck traffic accidents
why the hell would I want to watch such gruesome stuff? Please don't tell me it's human nature - not all of us are f***ing ghouls.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "Human nature" was used in the general sense N/T
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. I won't watch them
I'm not the queasy type, but I know that whenever I watch anybody dying, it sort of freaks me out.
The beheadings are terrible, but not any more terrible than any other forms of execution. It wasn't that long ago that this country would hang people by their necks, many of them ripped the heads off. Any video of real people being put to death are very unsettling.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. All this, and no link?
Come on, if you wanna share, then SHARE! Beheading is just 1/10,000th
of what we've been doing to their civilian population with bombs.

I'm sure a slow motion film of 10 people being blown to bits by
a "smart" bomb is no less gruesome.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. i chose not to include a link, because of how 'yucky' i felt at the time.
i guess there are a lot of them, the one i saw from Rotten.com, i think.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
67. Ok, so i watched a beheading video
Nick Berg, appearantly. Rambo III had more kills. If this video
distrubs you, then you've clearly been avoiding the more lascivious
fruits of hollywood these latest years. One kill in 5.5 minutes
of black-dressed men wrinkling paper... how boring.

We need more kills. I want to see the slow motion kills of the
american smart weapons; there are at least 50 people killed and
destroyed in some of these "smart"bomb attacks.... lets show how our
own culture does a christian beheading... none of that knife shit..
no... just massive explosives and people blown to bits... i feel
so dang civilized.. oh yea! Gimme those smart bombs and lets
move beyond the 20th century... IF the filthy bush is reelected,
we can even watch a nuclear mass murder video on rotten.com... well
in the name of quality entertainment, why are we waiting?
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. rambo? wtf? nt
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Rambo kills a lotta people gruesomly
And by the cinema film, the difference between that and "the real thing"
is indistinguishable, except the real thing clearly suffers from bad
acting with the "extra's" fidgeting around whilst the "reader" reads
the pages... and then they don't get the camera angle right on the
closeup, so the whole outtake is wasted.... geez. I'm sure the
director said "cut"... and insisted on a re-take.

THe culture that mass murders thousands of people with explosives
has NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN when their own get the knife. Bottom line,
you live by the smart=bomb, expect to die in an ugly way.

I can't believe americans are so unrealistic that they expect otherwise.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Does anyone here know...
...if the two French hostages who were being held in protest over the French headscarf ban were ever released?
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. I learned NOT to do that after Danny Pearl
sick, sick, sick....nightmares for days!
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. I watched the latest one
after seeing the link here on DU. I will have to say that I have never witnessed such incredible violence in my life. I wanted to see it because I felt I could strengthen my resolve to get chimpy out of office. After seeing it though, I felt dirty....like I needed to take a long shower.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. That's how I felt, too. I watched Nick Berg's. Horrible.
It was, mercifully, fairly quick, compared to how long I thought it'd take.

I watched it because I was curious. But right before it started, I changed my mind and chickened out. But oddly, the program wouldn't close, and the alt-ctrl-dlt task close feature didn't work, either. So I watched it with my hands in front of my eyes.

I don't see how one person can do that to another human being. It reminded me of a pig being slaughtered (if you've ever seen that - BTW, I no longer eat pigs or cows). I don't mean that as an insult or flippant remark. It's just that that's what it reminded me of. It was a very cold, matter of fact slaughtering of another creature. No intention to torture, but no regard to screams or the caring of hurting another creature. Just a slaughtering. (shudder) It brought home the fact that they didn't regard the victim as a human being, really.

I felt sort of dirty afterwards. And it made me want to get rid of Bush all the more.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. i refuse to watch any of them... I'm not sure why exactly but...
I feel it will somehow contribute to the insensitive insanity all about now.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. "it is inhuman"
Actually it is quite human.

In the US drawing and quartering was standard and in public. It was a form of public entertainment. It was stopped but public hangings continued into the 1940's.

Saudi Arabia has many beheadings and in public.

Ever hear any of the Bush Crime Family condemn beheadings in Saudi Arabia and call those barbaric?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. Those kids Bush sent to Iraq see stuff like in that video all the time. nt
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. I think there's a valid reason to view such a thing
I'm reading a book right now about a woman who is a forensic anthropoligist who has worked on mass graves in Rwanda and Kosovo among other places. Her job is to try to identify bodies and determine numbers and cause of death so that information can be used at tribunals convened to punish those responsible.

It's heartrending.

A friend asked me, "why do you read such things?!" and I told her that I do it because I want to be horrified. Reading that someone has been beheaded in the daily newspaper does nothing to convey the true horror and awfulness of the act. If we are not aware, really aware, of the dreadful things that happen around us, where is the incentive to stop them?

It's not like Faces of Death, the viewing of which is more of a strange, voyeuristic compulsion - it's learning about a reality that is going on now, over and over, and as a result of actions our own government has taken. It's easy to say, "oh, I can't handle that" but we have that luxury. Many people don't. They are living the horror and I feel duty bound to feel as much of that pain as I can, from my sheltered existence.

I don't want to hide from these awful unpleasant truths. I want to know all about them and I want to be so enraged that I will work to stop them.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. I think watching those videos is emboldening the murderers..
They do it for shock effect, and by participating in their gruesome, deadly, theatre, you are perpetuating what they think is success of their horrific attacks. If the videos were not watched, if they were not sought out, if they were not trafficked, then the power of the beheadings would be lost. Don't you all see that those who are watching the videos are furthering the goals of the killers???

I don't mean this flippantly, but 'what if you staged a beheading and no one watched'?
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Exactly.
They WANT us to watch, and I refuse for three reasons. First of all, because I know I would not be able to get the images out of my mind. Secondly, because I feel that, in some odd way, it's intruding upon the victim and his family - it's sort of voyeuristic. Finally, I don't want to give the terrorists any attention whatsoever.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
49. These kinds of images ....
are a morbid, vicious, violent pornography ..... Making the choice to watch one draws you into the cynical exchange of this viciousness ... You become a party to it ....

That said: I watched one small part of the one from a few months ago (so much for the persistence of such memories) ... I could not stomach watching more than the first scream ... I watched very little of the cutting ....

I felt I was doing THEIR bidding by watching: that I was completing the transaction with those villians who perpetrated the crime ....

I will never do that again ....

Furthermore: The muslim nations of the region regularly execute criminals by decapitation .... The Bush Administration is in the position of supporting the Saudi's as they condemn the Zarqawi cabal, even though they perform nearly the same barbarous acts .... It is a wholly inconsistent philosophical position, and yet one more indicator that the Bush Camp is bereft of an iota of credibility as a guardian of morality ....
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. It's a vicious circle -
I agree with the last part of your statement, however, the Muslims certainly can't do anything for their cause, or garner any moral support from the rest of the world, with atrocities like this - they're squandering their sympathy points rapidly. And making it easier for repukes and their ilk to justify other atrocities, like the prison abuse scandals.
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MUSTANG_2004 Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. It's not inconsistent
I'll start by saying I think the Saudi regime is barbarous, but...

There is a difference between maintaining friendly relations with a government that uses beheading for capital punishment and a terrorist group that grabs people off the street and saws their heads off.

As far as the Saudi's, what would you have Bush do as an alternative to supporting them? Invade and implement more regime change?
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Red herring .... Bifurcation ...
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 06:23 PM by Trajan
I would have the Saudi's STOP using such barbarous methods WITHOUT implementing 'regime change' ... You act as if the Saud's are not responsible for their own actions ....

I'll take Door # 3, Monty ....
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MUSTANG_2004 Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Saud's are responsible for their actions
But we shouldn't go after a country that isn't belligerent. I disagree strongly with the way Saudi Arabia is run (especially the way they treat women), but I think the US should stay out of how the Saud's run their country, at least as long as they are non-belligerents.

I'll repeat my question, what action would you take to have them stop such barbarous methods?
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
52. Thank Bush and Cheney
brought to you courtesy of their perseverance and stupidity.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
54. I couldn't watch myself.
I heard that they just didn't behead them but sawed the captives' heads off. I couldn't really watch anything like that. Just thinking about it makes me sick. But I hope enough people who have the stomach will see these videos and insist that the George Bush administration, all of them, be held accountable for creating the situation that is the cause of these horrors. These people are criminals who belong in prison.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
65. I'm sorry you watched, honey. I still haven't gotten over the gratuitous
buffalo beheading I inadvertently saw in Apocolypse Now. Hugs.
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SeekingTruth Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
66. To defeat an enemy we must understand what they are
willing to do. This is not accept or acknowledge, but to understand what they are willing to do.

Anymore, it is too simplistic to believe the mere leaving of Iraq will end things such as beheadings. This is much deeper and the interests of American businesses will ensure we exploit the Mid-East forever, therefore, these militant/radical Islamisists will probably always wish us harm, because we probably all realize businesses won't change their practices.

There is a great piece in Harper's magazine from a few months ago. It is an interview of an al Queda member. It is not that long, but it explains their resolve and is something every American should read and realize. He basically said they live for their religion and that is about it. Of course he gets into more detail, but he makes it clear there is a difference between how the West sees their religions in contrast to them. I wish I had a link to it but I don't. It is a chilling thing to read.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. The orange jumpsuit is a bit of a clue
Geez, where is the last time i saw a captive bound in an orange
jumpsuit.... (try hard).. ! Guantanamo! Oh yea! If we reserve the
right to persecute people in an extrajudicial manner for crimes
without any serious court of law... then, hmmm... well it seems
the opposition takes the same liberty as well.

The opponent is responding in kind. WE are the mass murderers.

I can't believe how many people are falling for the line that
because they behead somebody, they must be criminals... ha! The
people who mass murder the most civilians with WMD's are clearly
the criminals... . and that might be "WE".!

Cut the squeemish crap, and lets get these bush criminals in to the
war crimes prison where they belong.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. A little reminder.
Osama Letter


In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory"

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan." Quran 4:76]

Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you? As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you?

The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years.

The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel.

The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily. (ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history.

The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon. (c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.

v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question: Why did they attack us in New York and Washington? If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.

Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all. It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.

2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?

(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.

(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object. Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?

(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.

(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.

(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.

(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.

(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!

(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.

(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.

(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.

(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws. What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"

(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.

(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.

(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.

(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.

(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you. If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise."

The Nation of honour and respect: "But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad- peace be upon him) and to the believers."

"So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will be*superior ( in victory )if you are indeed (true) believers"

The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life: "Think not of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive with their Lord, and they are being provided for. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them from His bounty and rejoice for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. They rejoice in a grace and a bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers."

The Nation of victory and success that Allah has promised: "It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it."

"Allah has decreed that 'Verily it is I and My Messengers who shall be victorious.' Verily Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty."

The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance. If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence and disgrace.

If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy. This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah, we shall be victorious?





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LastDemStanding Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
70. These behaedings should be on the prime-time news
It may just bring enough people around to put a stop to this madness.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
71. I saw the Nick Berg one
because I found out my husband watched it. I thought it would be so grainy that I'd hardly be able to tell anything. I was wrong.

I regret it completely and if I could go back in time, I would never watch it. It was horrific and I had nightmares for WEEKS after that. I didn't feel the same. I felt sick inside. God how I wish I hadn't seen that. I will never, as long as I live, get that image out of my head.

To anyone out there reading this: please, I beg of you, I am serious, just don't watch that shit. You'll wish you hadn't. I don't care how tough you think you are. I'm pretty tough myself but the horror of it is inescapable.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
73. I hate to say this, but...
maybe these videos and the murders they record will make potential contractors and mercenaries think twice before packing their lunches and setting off for a day at Halliburton.
I would starve before I would work for the imperial guard in a foreign land.
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