After week w/new friends ,they are bush supporters !

[NicRic]

My wife and I and our 2 kids just got back from a seven day cruise to Mexico on a Royal Caribbean ship .On the ship they have you sit at dinner tables with same guest every night .The other family a husband and wife with 2 young children same age as ours ,ended up being very nice and we found ourselves spending alot of time with them. They drove up from Arizona and we flew in the from the San Francisco Bay area ! They offered us a ride to the Airport when the trip was over. As we apporched his mini van he said to me "I dont know how political you are ,hope you dont mind riding in a auto with a Bush sticker on it" Once in the van he was showing some of his toys hooked up for listening to the news, music, kept mentioning Fox news as his main source of info ! I made a lite comment about how if bush could'nt win the election they would just steal it again. I really did not want to get into some big debate on politics YET. I have his email address and figured there would be time for me to send him anti bush stuff I have saved on my PC .He did mention something about the swift boat vets ,being what really hurt Kerry and there being some 60 of them all former nam vets the fought with Kerry. This was news to me ,in fact I have a Chicago tribune article that says exactly the opposite. We plan on keeping in contact ,and I want to go about showing why I dislike bush so much ,in a way that does'nt turn him off and close his mind to listening .He is a computer programmer, same age as Iam , and a very nice family . Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to get him to turn off Fox and listen to my side with a open mind. I would not want to insult him ,I rather try and convert him with facts ,not get into personal attacks (very hard to do when it comes to bush) Any suggestions !
Thanks NicRic ( Kerry/Edwards a must in 04)

[RollergirlVT]

1. Send him a copy of Outfoxed on DVD

and then there is that photo fishface posted of Bush flipping the bird. Personally, I think that is quite a powerful image. Some role model for our kids eh? Even my third grader noticed when * said,"We is educating our children."

[NJCher]

2. make the economic argument

There are charts and graphs of unemployment and other economic factors that make it easy to see, 1-2-3. But he shows all the signs of cult-like adherence so you're going to have to be really careful of this because he's tied emotionally to these thugs who are occupying the WH. When you interfere with a person's sense of self, that's when trouble pops up.


Cher

[BiggJawn]

9. That won't work.

Mini-van full of "toys"? Reminds me of an old Randy Newman song"
"But MY life....Is GOOD!"

He's got his, and anyone else who doesn't have theirs is just plain lazy. He won't care. He's been indoctrinated into believing that he lives in this billboard:



Mental illness left over from the Ray-Gun Era.

[HFishbine]

3. I would STRONGLY encourage you

to send him a copy of Al Franken's "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them." It's a humourous, easy-to-read, yet factual expose of the bias, umm, lies told by Fox.

It should be out in paper back by now, and if you have your new friend's address, you can have Amazon ship it to him directly.

[9119495]

5. Second that

Franken has that great discussion about footnotes and backing up claims that I think is accessable for the non-political or "wrong-political" reader. Plus, give it to him with an open mind. Tell him you're interested in what he thinks about it and that you're willing to slog through some crap book he offers you so you can both have an honest discussion. Let him know you're trying to turn him, but tell him that in America, when we disagree, people (right now) seldom get shot, and we can still share a beer afterwards.

[Flammable Materials]

6. I sent my mom a copy of "Lies" ... an AUTOGRAPHED copy, in fact.

Al Franken personalized it for her.

She didn't read it, and I'm convinced that was the thing that set her on the wrong track with me.

[Flammable Materials]

4. It sounds like he might be pretty far gone.

I don't know what I'd recommend sending him, as he's probably been well-vaccinated against opposing points of view. Hell, my mother tore into me because I didn't support Bush, and she used to be a voter registrar for the Democrats.

I'd probably start by e-mailing him and asking if he'd be willing to have an honest, respectful back-and-forth with someone who doesn't necessarily agree with him.

Take the cue from his response, and move forward as you see fit.

[flordehinojos]

7. If your friends are anything like the rest of the bushistas ...

they won't want to even listen to anything you have to say against bush.

Their (the bushistas) evaluation of and support for bush is based more on an emotional support than it is on any kind of cognitive/intellectual level from which facts can be looked at and an evaluation made.

Good luck in trying to convert your new friends.

Having had so many of my lifetime friends turn out to be bushistas who constantly tell me "i will respect your political opinions if you respect mine" .... i doubt your efforts with your new friends will move them.

Sorry to be so pessimistic this early monday morning. }(

[PsN2Wind]

8. You might try the point

I made in a letter to the editor about a guest column "Kerry Should Not Be President".
I pointed out the irony of the columnist stating that 150 VietNam veterans had come forth to question the medals that Kerry was awarded while in combat in VietNam but, that with a reward that stands at around $60,000, still no one had come forth that could prove that George Bush served with them in that 'Bama Guard unit.

[FormerOstrich]

10. The Draft...

Send him the information about how they are changing the rules for the draft. They are discussing that for linguists, medical personnel, and IT (e.g. Programmers) up to age 42 (or 44 I think).

[pschoeb]

11. You could keep it less political, and ask him about Outsourcing

to breach into differences in policy. As a computer programmer he should have some interest. This way you might not lose him in the first salvo.

[BeachBuckeye]

12. Seriously, don't waste your time

Many of these people have a cult-like thought process. From what you have described I doubt you have any chance to change their minds.

[NicRic]

13. Thanks for replies !

I want to thank all of my DU brothers and sisters for giving me their take on this situation ! On the cruise it was strange how out of the loop on current events you get, I went to the internet cafe one day and at 50 cents per minute ,all I did was read emails in my inbox and about 10 minutes of surfing and 30 minute total use time cost me $15.50 ! Now that Iam home Iam just getting up to speed on how things are going . Iam hoping big time that the debates give Kerry a neeeded boost. I just cant understand how people, can support such a obvious failure as bush, very confusing ,and very very sad ! I still have high hopes that the voters will wake up . This fellow I met,seems to think bush is going to win in a 40 state landslide ! I want Kerry to win more then anything else in my life at this time ! I have a KERRY/EDWARDS bumper sticker thats going on my car today (I just reieved it a couple of days B/4 I left for vacation)
Thanks Again To All
NicRic

[G_j]

14. give them the Kevin Phillips book "American Dynasty"

because Phillips was a widely respected Republican this book may hold a lot weight for some. He clearly demonstrates that the Bush family is loyal only to itself. The only "values" the Bush dynasty holds are those that further themselves and their cronies.


American Dynasty - Kevin Phillips - New York Book Review...

www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/books/reviews/n_9732/

Kevin Phillips is that rarest of creatures, a reverse neocon, a Republican who has seen the light. As a young politics wonk poring over voting figures in the mid-sixties, he realized that the Democratic Party was growing estranged from many of its traditional constituents, and that the South was ready for a shift. His 1969 book The Emerging Republican Majority got him a job in the Nixon White House (he languished in John Mitchell’s Justice Department, and quit in 1970).


Back then, however, a Bush dynasty was not exactly what Phillips had in mind. He began a slow-motion apostasy in the eighties, as he gradually began to realize that the Republicans were the party of the rich, and the rich were getting richer. He kept thinking that the American public would notice this, too.


American Dynasty (Viking; $25.95) wears the mantle of historiography, but it’s a different kind of book— an indictment of the Bush family for un-American activities: impersonating royalty. It’s also a screed, political genealogy as rogues’ gallery (a familiar enough genre in Kennedy literature), tracing various nefarious qualities through several generations. There’s aggressive, amoral banker George Herbert Walker—even his family didn’t like him—the original source of the family gift for turning insider’s knowledge into profit. His protégé Samuel Bush, and then Prescott Bush, who was able to use their Brown Brothers Harriman launching pad to get into the political stratosphere.


Then there are the Georges, I and II; weaned at Andover, taught their frat-boy manners at Skull and Bones at Yale, dipped in the oil business for that healthy, wealthy sheen, and sent off to rule the world. Phillips, who grew up in a middle-class family in the North Bronx, recoils at the sight of this American monarchy in a way that seems almost quaint.

<snip>

[DeepModem Mom]

16. "Dynasty" has been effective with people I know, too --

they were reasonable people to begin with, however, old-style Republicans. After reading the book, they realized the Bushes were not what they thought they were.

[G_j]

17. as the light bulb goes off..

"hey wait a minute! these people aren't even loyal to "Republicans"."

[cap]

15. try the line of George and Laura are the Jim and Tammy Baker

of politics... People who talk like they have morals but have their hand in your pocket and lead an immoral lifestyle.