Read Stupid White Men! Makes me want to switch to Dean

[TheReligiousLeft]

I read "Stupid White Men" yesterday and it may have tilted the fragile balance that Dean and Kerry are playing in my head. It wasn't the kind of stuff I usually read. In places I thought it got kind of over the top, but there was so much good info that I didn't much mind. I had seen Bowling. Any suggestions for further reading etc?

[Room101]

1. I read (SWM) a couple months ago......

It was a great read, it made me laugh, think, and get pist all at the same time:)

[LuCifer]

20. "It's still the economy stupid!" by Paul Begalla

I got approx. 1/2 way thru it at my local bookstore, and it was right on the money (so to speak) very factual, layed out how "President" Bozo has killed the economy while Clinton made the best economy EVER. But I can't say that here in the land of the free, since it reflects badly on our beloved white-knuckle drunk selected "leader" and faux nukes my have a pissy fit.

Lu Cifer

[JasonBerry]

2. I read it and followed it up with....

"Thieves in High Places: They've Stolen Our Country--And Its Time to Take It Back" by Jim Hightower. Just bought it a few days ago and finished it yesterday. Wow. Great back-to-back with Moore's book. Hightower, by the way, is supporting Dean.

Read more:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670031410/

Amazon Review
Author, populist, and radio commentator Jim Hightower is nothing if not direct. In Thieves in High Places, Hightower lambastes the current American power structure and exhorts his readers to fight against it. Hightower's indignation runs deep in this "us versus them" exposé of corporate malfeasance, governmental abuse, the militarization of American society, and the Bush administration's empire building. In the first part of the book, Hightower illustrates how the Bush administration and Congress work with major corporations (including our nation's vast media conglomerates) to add to their obscene wealth at the expense of America's working class, our environment, and (most lamentably) our rights and liberties. "The elites have pulled off a slow-motion coup, radically wrenching America's power balance from a people's democracy to Kleptocrat Nation."

Hightower defines "Kleptocrat Nation" as "a body of people ruled by thieves...a government characterized by the practice of transferring money and power from the many to the few... a ruling class of moneyed elites that usurps liberty, justice, sovereignty, and other, democratic rights from the people." His catalogue of corporate greed and governmental complicity is breathtaking in scope, and though he admits that the fusion of business and government is not new, he persuasively states that "never have so few done so much for so few." Unfortunately, Hightower's serious message is delivered in such a "down home" style, it may lose its impact on the more brainy among us. Also, one wishes there were more documentation for the copious examples and facts in the book. Still, Hightower's call to action is sincere, and his descriptions of the triumphs of average people over corporate power might give some fledgling activists some hope. Thieves in High Places urges Americans to reclaim control of our government--Hightower thinks we can with community organization and grass-roots movements. However, judging from his description of the current power structure, we are going to need all the help we can get.

[DemBones DemBones]

9. Got a link for the claim that Jim Hightower is supporting Dean?

On C-SPAN the other day, the first candidate that Jim Hightower mentioned was Dennis Kucinich. Hightower talked about Kucinich speaking out on the issues, including the Apollo Project. He noted that Dean has been going around the political establishment, and he praised Sharpton for having good ideas, though he's being ridiculed.

The closest Hightower came to endorsing anyone was when he said "I think Dean is the one -- OR somebody like Kucinich, somebody with a real policy thrust -- that the Bushites fear the most."

I've seen no indication at Hightower's web site that he's chosen to support one candidate. I did a search on his site for Howard Dean and found one quote:

". . . Professional politicos have been stunned by the "Howard Dean phenomenon." But they're missing the significance of his surge. They're focusing on Dean rather than on the phenomenon, which is that there is a roiled group of unaligned voters looking for someone who thinks like them. Dean didn't create this phenomenon; it created him."

"And the next election may well be won by a progressive candidate who can harness their anger."

Note that he's not saying Dean may win the next election but that it "may well be won by a progressive candidate who can harness their anger."

The Article was in the Boston Globe on Aug. 10, or you can download it from
http://www.jimhightower.com/search/query.idq?CiScope=%2F&CiMaxRecordsPerPage=10&TemplateName=queryhit&CiSort=rank%5Bd%5D&HTMLQueryForm=%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.asp&CiRestriction=howard+dean

[TheReligiousLeft]

10. Harness Anger!

Maybe it really is the Starwars effect. "Embrace your hatred" kind of thing. Who knows.

[JasonBerry]

12. Dem Bones

I was extremely disappointed (being a Kucinich supporter myself) but he said his heart is with Kucinich, but has to support Dean because he is more electable. I'll find a link. I didn't like it at all. Good book though.

[blm]

21. Hightower is NOT supporting Dean...

when he spoke on Cspan he REMARKED on the Dean campaign's tapping into an enthusiastic audienc.

People should understand the difference between remarking on something one notices as a writer and actually endorsing or supporting a candidate.

[Ripley]

25. Actually Hightower said on CSPAN:

That "Dean is the one, or Kucinich...that the Bushites fear the most." While he did not come right out and "endorse" Dean he made it sound to me like he will endorse either Dean or Kucinich.

When asked if there was a frontrunner who could give Bush a run for the presidency he said "Yes, Dean...well, Kerry is the "official" front runner I suppose, and Lieberman is the establishment choice."

His other remarks on Dean were "Oh you can tell they fear Dean because they say "Oh give us Dean, we'd love to run against him." (laughs here) "They don't want Dean let me tell you."

Sounds supportive to me.

Are you now going to attack Hightower?

[blm]

33. Why would I?

And why do so many of you have such thin skin that you perceive almost EVERYTHING that doesn't suit your mindset as an attck?

Sheesh. If my skin was as thin as some of you here, I would have had to commit suicide for the way so many attack me personally.

[w4rma]

3. What did you read in Moore's book that helped you decide? (n/t)

[dajabr]

4. Good question...

I read it a loooong time ago and can't remember all the finer points. maybe it planted a little seed to be open to Dean's message?

Very critical of Inside the Beltway types (DNC & RNC) as I recall...

It would be good to hear the posters fresh perspective.

[Cha]

5. Really!

[TheReligiousLeft]

6. Not sure, it was sort of a "Starwars thing" Give in to your hate Luke!

No, not really. It was more of a "Hey, Dean can get the Green vote. That is good." I guess it felt like we need a real change. I'm not saying I'm a Deanie yet (although my best friend put a Dean sticker on her car, I could just cave to peer pressure) but it is no longer Kerry, then maybe Dean, it is Kerry or Dean.
I guess I like the idea of tapping the base instead of selling out our values for the sake of moderates. Also I remembered the horror of 2000, and thought that Dean has every right to be pissed at Bush.

[w4rma]

11. Thanks! (n/t)

[blm]

22. That's odd

considering Dean always governed as a centrist who aligned more often with the Republicans AGAINST the progressive Dem lawmakers in Vermont.

Most Greens are against Dean and FOR Kucinich, and those Greens who have the environment and death penalty as their priority like either Kucinich or Kerry.

[TheReligiousLeft]

28. That's why it is still a balance

between Kerry and Dean. I like Dean's anger, as I quipped earlier, but I'm not sure about records. I want a candidate who will not just talk tough, but be tough. We'll see.

[stickdog]

30. Is a centrist in VT the same as a national centrist?

No.

Hence Dean and only Dean can legitimately attack Bush from the left (war, tax cuts for the rich, civil rights, etc), middle (health care, environment, real security concerns, graft, secrecy, etc) and right (deficits and fiscal responsibility).

[liberalmuse]

7. 'Bowling for Columbine'...

didn't change my stance on guns, but it helped me understand that the problem in this country goes much deeper than lenient gun laws. I think I can handle 'Stupid White Men'. I got to the Harris chapter in 'Jews for Buchanan' and had to stop because I couldn't take anymore.

I haven't forgotten how some of our Dem candidates handed over unprecedented executive powers to Bush when everything was there to tell them 'Hey guys, the Bush administration is not trustworthy'. People have been upset about Dean's stance on Cuba and guns, but he is forthright about these things, and he has been known to change his views about certain issues over time. You can't tell me Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman or Edwards are going to lift sanctions on Cuba or get tough on guns. It's just not going to happen. These men don't have half the balls Clinton had, and even Clinton wasn't as tough as I'd have liked him to have been on many of these same issues and more, especially on healthcare. We know Dean is going to do something about healthcare, and he's going to kick some Republican ass if they try to stall and hi-jack the healthcare issue like they did with Clinton. He's done it before in Vermont. The other candidates have caved in to Republicans many times before, and they'll do it again and again. Dean has some fight in him. Anyway, I'm WAY off the topic by now.

[TheReligiousLeft]

8. Sure, but can Dean swing a light saber?

See my previous post.

[Eloriel]

26. Honey, he IS a light saber

:evilgrin:

You're on the right track, kiddo. Dean's the one.

BTW, I was talking on the phone this morning with another Dean supporter who knows someone who grew up with Dean. She confirms that he's honest ad principled. The real thing.

Eloriel

[0rganism]

13. Have you read "Downsize This" by Moore? Also quite good

Consider renting Moore's other movies if you haven't seen them already.

Some other good reads:
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, by Greg Palast (includes gory details of the Florida recount)
Crashing The Party, by Ralph Nader (get his side of the story, at the library if you're still mad at him)
9-11, by Noam Chomsky (analysis of foreign policy and the link between imperialism and terrorism)
The Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides (and you thought our political system was a mess?)
A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn (US History from a different angle)
The Trial, by Franz Kafka (if you're in the mood for relevant fiction)

[bryant69]

18. Downsize This!

Downsize This! is better than Stupid White Men in just about every way.

[jiacinto]

14. Does Moore hate white people

I found the chapter "Kill Whitey" quite offensive.

[bpilgrim]

15. Does jiacinto hate MM?

or does he just not get satire?

peace

[jiacinto]

16. I do find it offensive

I really wonder if Moore does hate white people.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. jiacinto LOL you're very funny

[bryant69]

17. To be honest

I think Moore is not at his best when he gets on race. He basically takes up a lecturing tone to tell us that things are, essentially, just as bad now as they were 100 years ago. I know there are people who believe that, and for some people and some communities they may be.

But there has been progress made since the 1950s and 1960s--middle class blacks and upper class blacks have grown in number, and institutionalized open racism is largely a thing of the past. I'm not saying we have solved our racial problems (not by a long shot), but Michael Moores rhetoric that White America is exactly as hateful as it was in the 1930s (when you couldn't even get an anti lynching law passed) is just wrong.


Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jiacinto]

19. It is wrong

I sometimes wonder if Moore just hates white people.

[Paragon]

29. Help me out here

Why are you a Democrat, again?

[jiacinto]

31. Because I hate the religious right

Just because I am not part of the far left doesn't make me conservative either.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. TheReligiousLeft i especially enjoyed chapter 2 "dear george" and

chapter 7 "the end of men"...it was a good read and MM is right on!

[TheReligiousLeft]

27. Step ladder

Women don't need a step ladder to replace me... Then again.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. TheReligiousLeft...LOL

:toast:
but just in case www.americanladderinstitute.org :7

oh and a must read..."All The Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzer 2003