Chemtrails over Langley

[gospelized]

5:50pm - above my mother's house, about 2 minutes outside of Langley A.F.B., VA









6:30pm - same location

[Vickers]

1. What is the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail, especially

in regards to a popular air route?

[GregW]

3. Nothing - just depends on the size of your tinfoil hat

Luckily I don't wear one :eyes:

[Earth_First]

8. Art Bell would disagree...

:crazy:

[bullimiami]

28. gregw just because you havent seen it

doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

i have seen them, over the skies in miami and this is not normal contrails.
the jets lay down a pattern and it spreads into a cloudy haze in the sky.

i dont know anything but this.
it is deliberate, it is systematic, it is real.

i have no idea what they are up to but with out governments track record I dont exactly trust that it is in the peoples best interest.

[alittlelark]

92. Here are some links for those that are unaware

of what they are

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FIT203Ap.html

http://www.rense.com/general45/reee.htm

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Chemtrails.html

[patdem]

12. A trail left by a normal jet is dissipated ..chem trails create clouds

and can completly grey a blue sky. I don't really understand them, but I have seen them here VA (Langly-I'm in Norfolk)..a completely blue sky with a low wind factor puts jets in the air and over time clouds are created and even the sky becomes kinda grey....

[Vickers]

17. What kind of planes are leaving them?

If they are cropdusters, I would be worried. Most fighter jets are not equipped for chemical spraying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. Why?

Why do you say that a trail left by a normal jet is dissipated? What are your scientific reasons?

Loads of scientists say that 'normal' jet trails can start cirrus clouds forming, eg those writing the IPCC report:

Contrails are visible line clouds that form behind aircraft flying in sufficiently cold air as a result of water vapor emissions. Contrail formation can be accurately predicted for given atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions. In the exhaust, water droplets form on soot and sulfuric acid particles, then freeze to form contrail particles. Models suggest that contrails would also form without soot and sulfur emissions by activation and freezing of background particles. Increasing fuel sulfur content results in more and smaller ice particles. In the future, aircraft with more fuel-efficient engines will produce lower exhaust temperatures for the same concentration of emitted water vapor, hence will tend to cause contrails at higher ambient temperatures and over a larger altitude range.

Persistent contrails often develop into more extensive contrail cirrus in ice-supersaturated air masses. Ice particles in such persistent contrails grow by uptake of water vapor from the surrounding air.

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/032.htm

[ParanoidPat]

32. Q, What's the difference between a 'chemtrail' and a 'contrail'?

A, Chemtrails can only be seen by those who lack an understanding of meteorology. :evilgrin:

[Steely_Dan]

2. Wow...those are amazing...

Straight lines in the sky that resemble clouds. Call 911.

-Paige

[Jacobin]

5. LOL

;-)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Mosquito problem over there? n/t

[aquart]

4. Ignorance here. What is this supposed to mean?

[Steely_Dan]

6. The Electrical Lines...

I would be more worried about the electrical lines running across your mom's backyard.

-P

[Fescue4u]

9. OMG! Water vapor!

Run for your lives!

[TahitiNut]

18. No, It's dihydrogen oxide - proven deadly in large quantities.

:crazy:

[WoodrowFan]

34. RUN!!

it's oxygen and hydrogen atoms combined in the atmosphere!!

[LastDemocratInSC]

10. Water vapor from condensation trails can persist for long periods ...

... and get dispersed by high-altitude winds as well. The vapor can remain vapor or freeze, depending on the temperatures at that altitude. Condensation trails tend to evaporate quickly when deposited in dry layers of the atmosphere, regardless of altitude, and freeze and become windblown otherwise.

[Jacobin]

11. That sounds rather, um secular and scientific, to me

I'm not buyin' it!!!

:o)

[seemslikeadream]

25. could you post a link

please

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. see post #36

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2400936&mesg_id=2401312

[laylah]

13. While I have no knowledge

of what you are asking, I do apologize for the rudeness in the responses of many of the posters. I have been at DU since inception and it is because of ridicule like this that I have not posted more often. While there are many, MULTIPLE great minds here, there are an equal number of insensitive jerks :hug: Hang in here though, we need you!

Jenn

[Earth_First]

14. No negativity intended on my part...

I actually am a listener to his program on a nightly basis...

[laylah]

23. I know that...

that is why I said "many". I have read your posts for some time...a sensitive "unit" you are :toast: However, it does bother me greatly when someone posts something out of sincerity (and I do believe she is sincere), many times they are mocked, ridiculed, embarrassed, etc. This is not the DU of yore...and I am saddened.

Jenn

[Dogmudgeon]

70. It's not about "Education in Scientific Thinking" ...

... it's about "Let's make fun of someone we're better than!"

--bkl
I cancelled my subscription to Skeptical Inquirer long ago.

[DrWeird]

80. This isn't exactly quantum mechanics.

Grade school children could debunk this shit.

[Dogmudgeon]

90. Ridicule against fear?

Ridicule is about the LEAST effective way to educate people.

However, it is one of the most emotionally gratifying ways to inflate one's ego.

There's also the problem addressed by Shermer's book, Why People Believe Weird Things, only Shermer himself found a "why" that reflected badly on believers while making him look good. A lot of people believe paranoid ideas because they are fearful of a world that they perceive to be beyond their control. Chemtrail lore is often part of that paranoia. But even if you were to "debunk" every popular explanation for things that go bump in the night, the fearful will find new explanations for their fears, whether scientifically verified or not.

Indignant ridicule from the scientifically elect is about as effective as dealing with a frightened child by threatening a spanking the next time s/he calls out in the night.

I also find it astounding that debunkery-by-ridicule continues as a popular pasttime when so many science enthusiasts claim to have been picked on in school themselves.

The cure for fear and ignorance involves education and understanding. Ridicule is its intellectual version of bloodletting. And the demons that haunt our world enjoy a put-down just as much as they enjoy a put-on.

--bkl

[WoodrowFan]

85. it's frustration

it's just frustration with irrationality. People here don't make fun of other's religions too much (I don't, I hope) because it's understood to be faith. I believe things I can't prove logically, like the Virgin Birth, and if you want to believe something else that's fine by me. But I get very, very frustrated when people post total nonsense pretending it is scientific or historical truth. And with the internet there's a LOT of that.

My wife has told me my main fault is that I don't suffer fools easily. I will, however, try to not pile on so much and I am truly sorry that the original poster was offended.


(still subscribe to Skeptcal Inquirer tho.)

[jcappy]

69. praise to you!!

Unfortunately, this perhaps has to repeated over and over here and on almost all lightly moderated or non-moderated boards.

The kind of posts you refer to have a way of depleting the spirit, of ruining threads (breaking threads really), of discouraging further posting (as you say).

[soothsayer]

15. Those are great pics! I'm in VA too and always watching 'em

cloud up the sky.

I wonder what they're up to.

[Dangeresque]

16. Airplanes!

Scary! Scary! Call Tom Ridge! Scary!

[951]

19. Oh god not this crap again I've had it with these "chem-heads"

Sometimes I wonder which is more annoying a freeper or a sociopathic conspiracy theorist.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alittlelark]

93. You can ignore, derride, or just be rude....

but they still exist

(see post 92)

[Minstrel Boy]

20. Here's a current thread

in the Meeting Room you may want to see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=111&topic_id=33782&mesg_id=33782

[DemonFighterLives]

21. I posted a thread about Chemtrails on another site

And was almost led to the loony bin. I was interested in the chemtrail phenomenom and then I saw the entire sky cross hatched with them in Northern MN. They never ever appeared in the 40 years prior of my life.
From my follow ups, they are preparing the sky for EMP weapons, by ionizing it. Another pet idea is that the Crime family is getting rid of some bad waste. I wish the real answers would be put out there. There is nothing concrete on the web.
There is some good info. here:
http://www.hereinreality.com/chemtrails/

[Mick Knox]

24. I would never expect this over a AFB!!!!!!!!!!

Nominated for dumb post of the day.

[DrWeird]

26. Some ideas are so stupid they deserve to be mocked.

Take "clouds" for instance.



Anybody who's not a complete idiot will tell you that these are obviously chemblobs, i.e. secret brainwashing chemicals, that are put there by stealth Templar helicopters in whisper mode.

Any skeptic who says these are "clouds" (yeah, right, clouds dissipate in seconds) is either a complete rube or is government stooge.

[laylah]

43. How do you expect people

to LEARN? I was raised that there is no such thing as a stupid question! Maybe she doesn't understand the difference between chem trails and whatever else the jets release!

If you notice, which you probably don't and wouldn't care if you did, she hasn't posted since the first RUDE, bs response! And we call DU a "family".....dysfunctional at best. :mad:

Jenn

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. The original post wasn't a question

it was a statement that the photos were of 'chemtrails' - the word used by people who think there are special chemicals being sprayed by high altitude aircraft. The original poster has also since responded - by calling unnamed DUers 'jerks'.

[havocmom]

27. our skies cluttered with them a lot the past several months and we're

5 miles beyond the last place on earth. Was wondering about a couple things. When they first started appearing, wondered if it was a military exercise. We are between Malstrom and Minot.

They stopped for a bit then started back up with a vengeance. Several times a day now, our sky has a case of multiple trails going due east to west and west to east. It is a sequential pattern.

So now I am wondering if global warming might be worse and getting more official concern than the press reveals. OR are they just wasting jet fuel? Who gets bucks for jet fuel?

Is this just another example of corporations fleecing the taxpayers?

Are they driving up fuel prices in an attempt to make airlines bottom out faster? I get the feeling they are trying REALLY hard to make life hell for air travelers with the stupid security BS stunts being pulled and people showing up on no-fly lists for no reason at all.

Sorta wonder if they just want the American public unable to travel... Soon only the rich who can afford their own crafts will be flying if the airlines keep sinking.

Just sorta wonder... as I watch all those con-trails...

[gbwarming]

35. You're under the route from NY to Seattle

Go here to plot a great circle route:
http://gc.kls2.com/
and use SEA and JFK for the airports

(You probably don't even need the great circle route - planes follow airways and could be routed considerable north or south. Any northeastern to northwest flight could pass over your area.

Persistant contrails were written about during WW2, the first time that large numbers of aircraft capable of flying at high altitudes were common.

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1942/naca-wr-l-474/

Edit: thecontrails don't always form at a certain altitude - weather conditions vary daily and by season.

[havocmom]

84. Nope, that is not it. Trails are equal distance apart in a grid and every

2 minutes. We used to go weeks and not see a trail around my house. Not NY to Seattle flights.

[WilliamPitt]

29. PLANES GOING BY!!! RUN!!!

:eyes:

[laylah]

44. You, of all people,

I expected better from. :spank:

Jenn

[Jacobin]

46. Some things deserve, no demand, ridicule

This one is WAY up top on that list.

[WilliamPitt]

51. You got the best I got on this issue

[gospelized]

30. wow

remind me not to bother starting any more threads. what a bunch of jerks.

[WoodrowFan]

31. reminder

don't start any more threads noting that you fear water vapor.


Fortunately the tin foil hat crowd here is an (annoying) minority.

[gospelized]

33. did i say

i fear anything?

cause all i remember doing is posting some photos.

[DrWeird]

37. You posted some photos of contrails.

In a political discussion board and called them "chemtrails."

If you go and rant about how "they" are trying to gather your precious bodily fluids then you should expect to be made fun of.

[gospelized]

41. should i?

sorry, i wasn't aware i should expect to be made fun of. i thought people here were, you know... not 5.

if you don't like chemtrail threads, it's probably best to use a little logic and not click on it. you can save making yourself look like a total asshole.

[blondeatlast]

68. This is why I hang out in GD2004--sanity. nt

[Renew Deal]

71. GD 2K4 is sanity?

That's scary. :scared:

[blondeatlast]

78. Oops--forgot the sarcasm tag! nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. Who are the jerks?

The ones convinced there's a secret chemical in the contrails?

[WoodrowFan]

40. here you go

pages with some actual science, debunking the chemtrail crap.

http://www.seawana.com/conspiracy_chemtrails.php?page=1

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/124_fbi.shtml

a quote from one ... "The contrail threat isn’t entirely imagined, however. NASA has been carrying out genuine research into the possible effects of contrails and increased air activity on the environment. An average contrail can last for hours before evolving into cirrus clouds – the largest measured covered 2,000 square miles (5,180sq km) of west America. Scientists have long been concerned that, with an expected six-fold increase in plane flights, such cirrus spreads might trap heat in the Earth’s atmosphere, so contributing to global warning. According to NASA research, cirrus cloud cover over America has increased five per cent since 1971, with the figure higher in the north-east."


Look man, we didn't mean to pile on but given the real problems that shrub and company are causing it's frustrating to see folks get wrapped to tight about some imagined threat like "chem trails."

[Realityhack]

42. Well this is stupid.

So plains leave trails of condensation. Wow thats some seriously heavey politics we better discuss online... and lets not forget to spout some complete intelectual seudoscience about them being "chemtrails"...

If you want to discuss junk science try the freeper forums. People here are mostly brighter than that.

RH

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WoodrowFan]

48. oh please

I live in Falls Church VA, about 7 miles from CIA HQs, work in downtown DC and grew up in Dayton, Ohio between a SAC base and a nuke warhead plant. I also can smell BS when it wafts past my nose and "chem trials" are BS.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. When was that?

Many 'chemtrail' sites claim this all started in 1999. So can you confirm that long-lasting trails did in fact exist before that?

[WoodrowFan]

52. sure

I grew up in a SAC base flight path and I've seen them all my life (40+ years). Whatever growth there has been in the frequency is caused by the matching growth in flights. More airplanes, more contrails.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. Thanks

I believe this is down to people actually bothering to look at how long trails last. Once they've been told there's something strange about some trails, they actually start observing them - not realising that there was a lot of variation before.

[WoodrowFan]

73. I think that's a good point.

people never paid much attention to them before, so now they seem 'strange" because people are looking at them anew.

[DrWeird]

86. it's sad when you think about it...

that something could have been right their in front of them all their lives and they're so unobservant that they never noticed before.

[WoodrowFan]

87. we all do it.

I didn't notice girls for the first 12 years of my life! :-) (made up for it since). What's sad is that people then FEAR it because it seems strange.

[poppabear36]

58. Yes I can

I know nothing of chemtrails and I don't have a dog in that fight. I can attest to long lasting trails over my home in Fredericksburg definitely in the 80's and 90's.
I can also attest to the obnoxiousness of people piling on a tin foil hat post for - gasp - being a tin foil hat post. I don't know where this need to ridicule your fellow DU'er comes from.
And I say once again, if you grow up near the heart of the military-industrial complex, there is stuff going on ALL around you that can make you paranoid.

[DrWeird]

59. Chemtrails were a secret Nazi plot.

Here we see German B-17s spreading chemtrails over Pearl Harbor.



The fact that they were using American bombers just goes to prove how insidious the Nazis really were.

[WoodrowFan]

63. that's clearly a doctored photo.

I am SHOCKED Dr Wierd, that's CLEARLY a doctored photo. In fact I think I can make out Oswald on the 3d plane from the left.

[Jacobin]

50. Hey, I live in the fucking woods in the rural south and the sky is

covered with contrails when the weather conditions are favorable.

And its very odd. They seem to be taking like paths from one big city to another, like its a fucking PLAN or something. Almost as if these things were FOLLOWING jets!!! I'm serious!!

WTF is going on here at DU

[951]

53. We're not drooling freeper types thats whats wrong with DU ;)

[Renew Deal]

54. Good post.

:)

:tinfoilhat:

[DrWeird]

55. Oh, I grew up in the bullseye of the Soviet nuclear arsenal...

but that's not saying much, since just about everybody did.

But that doesn't mean I can go around posting a bunch of UFO, creationist, Santa Claus is real, chupacabra, pseudo-scientific bullshit and not expect to get called on it.

I happen to care about the quality of education in this country and anybody else who does should be debunking this crap everywhere they see it.

[WoodrowFan]

56. actually I believe in chupacabra

Wasn't he Han Solo's buddy in Star Wars??

[Jacobin]

74. Its the same shit Faux programs started with that 'never landed on

moon' who ha.

Amazing shit. Creationism in the classrooms, fundies knocking evolution studies out of schools

This has to be fought at every turn. We're going back to the Dark Ages.

[Renew Deal]

57. Have you heard about fluoride in the water?

The commies use it to control your mind. :tinfoilhat:

Just teasing you. Who knows, you might be onto something. Is this not normal?

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. I am not knocking you in any way, shape or form; I live practically on

top of Selfridge here in MI and I have never seen it. I've seen normal trails that widen and dissipate, but nothing to get nervous over. I don't understand.

[Blue Wally]

89. Selfidge doesn't get that much traffic.

Anymore

[MrScorpio]

61. Hey, we're close. I'm stationed on Langley

I haven't been outside all day. I'm on leave.

[DemonFighterLives]

64. Just wanted to thank you for the pictures

And putting up with all the undeserved ridicule. Of course no one here has a real answer besides some debunkers junk stories.
Wake up people and smell the toxins. :9

[951]

66. and I see you've been smelling those "toxins" for a little too long.

Why the hell is this stupid myth being allowed to be discussed here?

[DrWeird]

67. You know, it would be a fairly trivial manner...

to analyze "chemtrails" for their chemical composition. Don't see many people putting their money where their mouth is.

[Jacobin]

72. Analyze them?

Um, jets burn Jet-A fuel which is fancy kerosene at high altitudes. Are you suggesting that the jet fuel has been jazzed up with some chemicals for some lurid dark purpose?

[DrWeird]

75. I'm not.

But that's what the chemtrails folks are saying. Perfectly easy to prove some nefarious purpose via actually testing it. Of course they get pretty quite when you ask them to prove it.

[Dogmudgeon]

65. SKEPFIGHT!

Pile on the woo-woo!

--bkl
President, Skeptics Against Skepticism

[WoodrowFan]

76. PIG PILE!!!

[Dogmudgeon]

82. Yes, there IS a resemblance!

--bkl

[WoodrowFan]

83. the one on the upper left,,,,

is me. I think that's Pitt below me but I didn't get a name...


:-)

[KoKo]

77. It looks like the sky over SC Beaches....what can I say...It's normal for

there. :shrug:

[DrWeird]

79. Here we see a ground based chemtrail device.

Won't somebody please think of the children?

[Domitan]

81. Consider the effects of these trails

as a result of our careless neglect of our environment, not a diabolical plot conceived by the elite to thin out the population.

[Jacobin]

88. Geeze, there must be a full moon tonight

:shrug:

[Pallas180]

91. So what does chem trails mean?