Joe Trippi predicts strong 3rd party in 2008 through the web

[newdealer]

Joe Trippi said on the charlie rose show, that he truely believes that the power of the internet will enable a third party candidate to rase as much money as any Republican oor Democratic candidate. What do you think?

[vetwife]

1. Well he is insane. If Bush goes in there won't even be 2 parties.

[liberalnurse]

7. I totally agree!

[MercutioATC]

2. Trippi is a fundraising genius, but he's obviously 'shrooming...

A third-party candidate doesn't stand a chance in 2008.....maybe not even in 2048.

[xxqqqzme]

3. not a 3rd party so much

as a true progressive party 2 take the place of the right leaning Democratic party. That's what I C happening.

[carpetbagger]

4. It's possible to get in the ballpark.

Let's say Bush wins a narrow re-election, for no other reason than I can't imagine a third party candidate rising up in a Kerry vs. GOP election with Kerry sitting, unless Kerry fizzles mightily.

We nominate Hilary Clinton. They nominate Jeb Bush. The nominations are sewn up by February 1. Nobody outside the party activists are happy with these people.

In walks Jesse Ventura.

I think Ventura could win that election, but I think it's less likely that he'll raise the kind of money the two parties raise, for no other reason than a viable third party candidate will almost certainly arise due to dissatisfaction with actual nominees (e.g. 1992), and by then the money on both bases will have been shaken down.

[tedoll78]

5. Hmm..

Trippi needs to go back and take American Government 101. How many times must it be repeated? The winner-take-all non-proportional system of representation is rigged for two parties!

It'd take a miracle for a third party candidate to win. Or some disaster that totally discredits the two major parties simultaneously. And I don't see that happening.

[jab105]

6. Never going to happen in US...unless we get instant run off elections...

or proportional representation...

Third party has to start at a local level, will never reach national until we change so that either of these things happen...

[21winner]

14. Crutches for losers

If you can't change things now,you will never do it. Its always better to lose than to sacrifice your principals. The upside is to always be able to sideline whine.

[FlemingsGhost]

8. I think he is absolutely correct.

Both Parties are ripe for a mass exodus by disillusioned members.
DLC Democrats are chasing away old-school liberals, and the Neo-Cons have scared the bejeezus out of old-school 'Pubs.

[carpetbagger]

9. I think it will be the opposite (see post 4)

The bases may dominate the parties so much as to invite a centrist with limited political ties to pull media coverage and become an instant player.

[FlemingsGhost]

11. Right, Clinton is DLC and Bush is NeoCon.

I think we are in agreement, no?

[rhite5]

25. Healthy move

Yes, both major parties are ripe for a mass exodus.

The most likely significant 3rd party would be progressives and it might incorporate the Greens. I think Libertarians would grow a bit. Labor would stay with the Dems if the party took an honest position on outsourcing jobs and saving our industrial base. Otherwise, Labor would join the Progressives.

This cannot happen unless proportional representation becomes a reality. This allows meaningful coalitions to form over specific issues. It would make our government far more healthy with many more opportunities for different ideas (new and old) to actually get in the public discussion.

We might find the parties actually talking to each other.

[newdealer]

29. Is there a McCain/Lieberman party waiting out there

[against all enemies]

37. If McCain runs in 2008, it is with the GOP.

He hasn't been whoring with Bush for nothing.

[devinsgram]

38. Bingo

Both of these parties are doing themselves in. This country is so divided that these two parties are actually beginning to turn and devour themselves. As much as I was not really a Dean person in the beginning, I see him now starting to develop the beginning of a new party. Perhaps the beginning of another 2 party system. After all we have seen and heard about republicans that are not happy with the way their party is going. I wouldn't doubt that they will start doing the same. After all there are so many that are not happy with the neo-cons or the fundies.

Dean is doing what Nader should have done. Start at the bottom and work their way up. You can't start at the top. It's like a kid coming out of college and wanting to be CEO right off the bat. The only thing he'll get is booted out the door. That is of course unless you have a rich and powerful daddy, but we've seen first hand what kinda leaders they make.

Something to think about.

[K-W]

40. It is far more likely that the existing parties will shift,

and even if they cant, we could have new parties, we will never have viable third parties. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the internet. The system doesnt handle more than two parties well.

[21winner]

10. Trippi is a loser.

But he knows what say on TV. Imagine his humiliation when his candidate crashed on take off. I doubt anyone will take his advice.

[FlemingsGhost]

12. What did your candidate do this year?

How much money did you raise for him/her.

Yeah ... Joe Trippi is a "loser."

[21winner]

16. The 40 million was all ..

gone after NH. Its not how much you raise,its how you spend it.

[Fleshdancer]

17. Trippi didn't control how the money was spent. n/t

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fleshdancer]

13. I can see a huge struggle over the direction of the Dem. party if...

Kerry loses, but I'm not sold on the idea of a strong 3rd party in just 4 years. The same can be said for the GOP if Bush loses. The tension is high between the true conservatives and the neocons right now so at some point they're going to battle it out.

[sleipnir]

15. Very true, but at the Dems loss.

The Dem party is more apt to hemorrhage massive amounts of voters after this election. I feel more liberals and true progressives will leave the party after Kerry's first term in office. Not that I believe Kerry's term will be a failure, rather Congress will still be littered with Repugs and that will make any bill Kerry tries to pass either weak or a "failure." Thus, Kerry's first term will go down with some as "better than Bush, but not good enough." Causing a mass exodus from the Dem party and likely leading to three parties, but with the Repugs in the majority due to the new fracture.

[w4rma]

18. I disagree. (nt)

[serryjw]

19. Denis Kucinich/Mike MIles 2008!

3rd party TRUE grassroots...I would volunteer to be the CO State chair!

[Kanary]

24. Now *that* would make the future worth living!

We can only dream that the country would be that mature.

Thanks...... you lifted my spirits. :hi:

Kanary

[serryjw]

48. My pleasure...lets dream together!

ONLY if they both run as independents.....sh*t the CO dems would not even put Miles on their website for the Senate after he WON in Pueblo!

[Kanary]

60. Exactly.... can't even express my disgust with the CO Dems!!!

Just look at the integrity Mike has to continue as he has since the primary!

Do you think we'll ever be mature enough as a state, or nation, to have people like this in government??

Or will we keep playing games until there is no more country to play with?

There was so much dirtiness in that race.... seriously, I can't even begin to express my disgust.

Kanary

[Mojambo]

20. I'l be throwing all my support behind a 3rd party after November.

Kerry could still earn my vote in 2008. I just want 2004 to turn out okay...

[Killarney]

22. Great. So that means the Republicans will win in 2008, too.

Something to look forward to. Sigh.

[OneTwentyoNine]

23. So...how much money has Nader raised?

If Nader has such a strong base of loyaly's and fence setters that were looking for something different then the donations should have poured in once Nader made his announcement. I don't think he's raised all that much.

Honestly if you look back there have been third party candidates since the 1880's. I think there always will be,but I don't think they'll wield the power that Trippi is talking about.

David

[rhite5]

26. Not Relevant

Nader is a person, not a political party.

Progressives are pretty solidly supporting Kerry because getting rid of Bush is #1 priority now. They will not likely stay with the Dems after November.

[K-W]

35. If that is true, then all hope is lost.

I might as well leave the country. If progressives plan to give control of this country to republicans through a protest based politicial plan to make themselves invisible to the power structure by backing parties that just dont fit in our electoral system, then we might as well just give Jeb the presdency now and get it over with.

[Toots]

27. Well if things don't change after Kerry gets elected I will go

elsewhere. I will vote for a more progressive candidate if the US stays the course we are currently on. Kerry is still "obligated" to others and I don't wish for that to be the case for any candidate. I am 100% in favor of Public financing of Campaigns with Absolutely NO money from individuals or groups. No one should be able to buy access or Legislation the way they do now.

[crispini]

28. Hm, interesting.

The only way IMO a *strong* 3rd party could emerge:
- Bush gets re-elected, neo-cons continue to take over the Repub party.
- 'Centrist' party emerges. Advocates fiscal responsibility and other things that could appeal to mainstream Repubs. Civil liberties and other things that could appeal to mainstream Dems.
- Key: standardbearer of party MUST be some kind of rich high profile person with high name recognition. Sort of the Perot theory but without the wackball factor.

I agree that the most *obvious* split is that Greens & far left will leave D party... but I don't think this 3rd party is a realistic *strong* 3rd party in 2008. Or whenever, really. Too granola for mainstream America. And I say this as a granola Kuchinich supporter. :)

[blm]

30. Joe Trippi should STFU about this and FOCUS on winning in November.

We only have 50 days. What side is he on?

[SoCalDem]

31. Exactly... Stuff like this is just a media ploy

to show dis-unity, and sadly, there are always people who crave "face time"...and are only too willing to agree..

There are very few reoubes on tv talking about the weirdness inside the Bush camp, ...why??? Not because they are not asked....it's because they refuse to do it..

They see the brass ring at the end, and are willing to eat their words and swallow their bile, because they see the bigger picture.. it's not about THEM and THEIR opinions.....it;s about the CANDIDATE's opinions and philosophy..

It always aggravates me when I see people who supposedly are on OUR side, on TV just blathering away and providing soundbytes to our adversaries.. :grr:

[tinanator]

39. what races has he won? any in this century?

who cares what he thinks, he's a whore in every sense.

[Jacobin]

32. If Kerry doesn't make it in, the democratic party is toast

and I for one will support a third party candidate who will field a candidate like Dean or Clark or anyone who will stand up and say no to the repukes, rather than being republican-lite, at least on matters of empire.

NO MORE FUCKING WARS OF CONQUEST. PERIOD.

[K-W]

34. great idea, if we lose, lets make sure we lose next time too

We have niether the time nor the need for a third party.

[kariatari]

49. I completely disagree.

The two-party system no longer represents the ideologies of a significant portion of voters. There are many people who are sick of both parties and are supporting Kerry simply becasue he has the best shot at beating Bush. The conditions are perfect for a strong 3rd party to emerge, and it's foolish to refuse to acknowledge that part of the blame can be placed on the democratic party.

[K-W]

33. What a completely ignorant comment

We dont have third parties because of our electon system, not because they cant fundraise. Go buy a history book and stop going gaga over the internet.

[robbedvoter]

36. What's with Dean & Trippi? Can't wait a few weeks to vent?

What f*ing babies!

[unfrigginreal]

41. Dean vent?

What the fuck are you talking about? Dean has done more to get Kerry elected than all of the other Primary Candidates combined.

Go off on Trippi all that you want but your ingrained hate against Dean is misplaced.

[robbedvoter]

56. You missed all the ugly threads caused by his book bringing up SOME

of his primary gripes (not the ones against the potentially powerful, mind you)

[ldf]

42. i certainly hope so.

i will do everything in my power to help get kerry into the whitehouse.

but once that is done, i'm in the market for a party with guts.

[K-W]

43. Seriously, this isnt how our system works, we dont have a parliment.

In our system, the parties are not issue parties, they are broker parties. It is in the party, not the legislature that people of varying viewpoints must come together and compromise around one platform. Do everything in power to get power in the democratic party, dont follow the third party canard. All alternative parties will do is make you invisible to our system.

[Yuna]

55. This post is full of it

"It is in the party, not the legislature that people of varying viewpoints must come together and compromise around one platform"

Please. Both party leaderships (read: an elite few) control the platform. Why is it 95% of our delegates at the national convention opposed the iraq war, yet there was no harsh language against it in the platform? Same for a variety of other issues. The delegates views were NOT represented in the platform.

I find it amusing people still believe "the platform" is where we can get things done.

[JNelson6563]

44. Trippi is trying to set himself up

to lead the effort. Kingmaker fantasies?

You dropped the ball Joe, let it go.

Julie

[robbedvoter]

57. Campaign post mortems are better left out AFTER November 2nd

This is dumb, self serving and counterproductive (like dean's book) - first of all because of the horrible timing

[Bread and Circus]

45. I agree and look forward to it.

[UpsideDownFlag]

46. i don't necessarily agree with trippi on other things, but he has a point

by 2008, the internet and net fundraising are going to be even bigger than they were this time around. it is entirely feasible that an independant party could get enough support to get at least a few house seats, or a senate seat.

[TheDonkey]

47. Trippi is not that smart

I've seen him talk and he definelt understands online politics, but this is garbage.

I'm not surprised though cause he spews a lot of it.

[louis c]

50. The only way a third party can succeed

is if it draws equally from both parties.

Ross Perot was the closest to that in our lifetime, before that, Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose had that appeal.

TR's cost more Republican votes because of his personal appeal to those loyal to him, but is was mostly a progressive movement.

Perot, if he wasn't so flaky, may have seceded in creating a "Labor Party" which opposed NAFTA, the WTO, and huge deficits. These issues cut both left and right.

If we have a third party under the present election structure that appeals only to progressives and liberals, all we can accomplish is to assure that the right wing Republicans control every aspect of our government for the rest of our lives.

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. So obviously the system needs to change

[louis c]

52. Good luck

To change the system would take a constitutional amendment.

First, both branches of congress have to vote in the affirmative by two thirds. That seems real easy, getting two thirds of sitting politicians to put their own jobs in jeopardy.

Next we need three quarters of the state legislatures to give us a majority in both of their individual chambers.

All the while, facing huge opposition from well entrenched lobbyists.

Short of a total collapse of our entire financial, political, and social system, it "ain't a happenin'".

We can't even get a Democrat that believes as we do nominated for President, but don't let me dissuade you. After all, Idealism is a wonderful thing.

[Yuna]

58. Wrong

There are 4 methods to amend the constitution. One of them does not involve the national congress at all. For god sakes people - please read the constitution so you know this stuff.

If a sufficient number of states call for a constitutional convention one can be convened REGARDLESS of what the national congress wants. At that convention any number of amendments could be introduced and voted on *that same day*.

So if a grass roots effort across several states (the lower the level, the greater the chance of grass roots success) ever was started a constitutional convention could be called and a reform of the system could follow. All it would require would be several state wide efforts which do have a history of succeeding.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Long overdue. The two corporate parties are corrupt.

I, for one, certainly hope that Trippi is right. The Republicans and the Not-Quite-As-Republicans have been running things for far too long. Though I think that it will take time because this country is too backward for a truly liberal/left party to take hold in the near future.

But, something's got to give. The rich and powerful are putting more distance between themselves and the rest of the country. Sooner or later the bills are going to come due and the house of cards will collapse or compromise.

FDR saved the country from revolution in the '30s through compromise, but I sure don't see any FDR's out there.

[Yuna]

54. If we lose this year

It could mean either

1. The death of the party and the rise of the greens.

or

2. A total party leadership shake up moving the party much further left. Though it is unlikely the leadership would resign, so option 1 is more likely.

[ulysses]

59. he's right - the structure is there.

The question really concerns what happens between now and then. A Kerry win with another Clinton-style governance could just mean that we see a serious monetary challenge to the established order.