Military "Families" Need Not Apply

[SoCalDem]

This is what's behind the "newfangled" deployments. Our military has always had a history of FAMILY involvement. I was raised as an Air Force Brat, so I know how bases are/were. They were self-contained towns, with everything a military family needed. Even though they were "separate", they were also a part of the community/country where they were deployed.

The "modern" military, touted as "fast-on-its-feet"..a rapid-response military has NO place for families..

The families who go with their servicemen Dads, husbands or wives are/were ambassadors of American goodwill. Thousands of kids grew up in foreign countries, witnessed their parents' rewarding careers, and joined the military themselves.

Our government has decided that it's too costly to continue this kind of a military. We have officially changed from defender to aggressor. There is no way that military families will be welcomed into the new military.. They are no longer needed as ambassadors of goodwill.. There is no more goodwill to protect..

Dependents are no longer considered an asset... they are now a liability.. Kids need to go to military doctors, schools, recreation centers.. Families need housing, movie theatres, baseball diamonds,swimming pools,commissaries, and PX'es.. These are all things that the new "warrior-class" soldiers do not need anymore.. KBR and Halliburton have changed the landscape of military life.

They have determined that soldiers can get along without the creature comforts, so why "waste" money on them? Families are best "left behind" scrambling for crumbs and being "self-reliant"...

Having a bunch of wives and kids "lounging" at a base is not cost effective for the "new military"..

The other issue is that in the "Wars of the Twenty-First Century" (how romantic that sounds...like "Tales of the South Pacific"), the deployments will most likely be in the middle east.. That is a place that is definitely NOT woman-friendly, so it's time to jettison those families..An "unencumbered" soldier is an expendable soldier...one who is not "missed"...just a cog in the wheels of the war-machine..Worth the cost of a flag, an aluminum "transfer capsule", and a recorded bugler, but little else.

Perhaps the thinking is that if a soldier is worried about his family at home, maybe he'll fight harder...kill more enemy...to try to end it faster, so he can get back home..

The days of "knowing that his family was being taken care of" are OVER..

This is the NEW Military for a New American Century :(

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Nominated

very good points made.

[dakine]

2. If the military wanted you to have a family...

...they would issue you one...

[Karenina]

4. YUP!

:kick:

[dakine]

5. What does...

"kick" mean?

[Karenina]

7. It sends the thread

to the top of the page. :hi: Welcome!

[dakine]

9. ahh....

I see...thanks...

[ilovenicepeople]

14. HOWDY dakine

Thanks for asking that question(I didn't know either)Welcome to DU:hi:

[SoCalDem]

15. We "kick" with a donkey kick

Freepers (from FreeRepublic) and some other conservative websites use the term "bump" ...

welcome to DU :hi:

[stavka]

6. That's the attitude the British take.

They have age limits to when you can marry and expect the military to care as I understand it....

So, you make $22,000 a year, you are 20 and work sixty hour weeks, and are deployed overseas - yeah - what you should do is get married either to your high school sweetheart who is 17 and probably not going to graduate from high school once you get her pregnant -or- I know, I'll marry the equivalent of a medieval camp follower who can barely speak English.......

[Qanisqineq]

22. as an army wife

I hear this all the time

[Junkdrawer]

3. Soldiers with families leave dependents the State has to take...

care of in the event of the soldier's death or disability.

They are also soldiers whose death MUST be recorded.

Oh, and nominated.

[Cleita]

8. In the waning days of WWII, the fleeing Nazi's went west, hoping

to be imprisoned by the Allies and preferrably the Americans. None wanted to fall into the hands of the Russians, who had a big revenge hand to play with the Nazis. I can imagine that today we look like the Russians or maybe even worse, maybe the hordes of Attila the Hun. I remember when the American military was admired and respected overseas. In one short term as President, Bush has destroyed fifty years of goodwill.

[SoCalDem]

10. They think they will be getting off cheap by closing bases in Germany

But.. WE MUST CLEAN UP THE TOXINS WE POLLUTED THE BASES WITH..

Thta is the most costly part of a base closure..

The locals do not want that land turned back to them UNTIL it's cleaned up.

[Retired AF Dem]

17. Which is the real kicker

The Germans paid the Russians billions to leave the former East Germany and charge us to leave. I say it is about time we left there is no more Soviet Union and besides my tax money can be spent on better things than making house payments for Germans.

[SoCalDem]

18. House payments for Germans??

Money spent to clean up the mess we made is only fair.. Bases are notorious for leaving huge piles of pretty nast stuff...even in the US.. We benefitted from being in Germany, or we would not have been there so long.:)

Why should German people have to clean up our mess?? They probably feel the same way as you do about OUR mess

[Retired AF Dem]

23. Uncle Sam

gives each GI and his family so much money according to his rank to pay the rent. Yes that is our tax money. Germans do one of two things, build a house and rent it to an American for twice the cost they would charge a German. Or build a house with an attached apartment and charge the American twice as much to rent it than any German would be willing to pay. The Germans use this money which comes from our taxes to make their house payments. I was there from 74-78 and 84-02, it took me awhile to figure this out than I bought my own house. The Germans profited much more then we did for having our troops there. Without having to spend much money on their own defense they were able to start and fund their social programs while ours suffered. I do not feel sorry for them in the least with us finally leaving.

[trogdor]

24. They do this in the States, too.

It's not just a German thing. Most stateside military communities jack up rents to whatever the market will bear, which is usually the average soldier's housing allowance. That's why you go to the Housing Referral office before looking for an apartment, whether stateside or overseas. Gougers don't get referrals from HRO. Most places require you to do this; I'm surprised you don't know that, being a 30-year veteran and all.

[Retired AF Dem]

29. Those poor Germans

have survived with 240,000 troops leaving since the 80's and 90's, they will survive with 70,000 more leaving.

[SoCalDem]

30. Some Germans will probably be glad to see them go

but when all or most are gone, it will leave a void on OUR part..There is real value to having OUR people mingling with THEIR people.. That's how we fight the isolationist crappola that is so in favor these days..

Even though we have "differences", we are all more alike than not.

[Retired AF Dem]

31. Don't get me wrong

I love Germany. Why I spent so many years there. Retired from the military, bought a house and was planning on staying there for the rest of my life. But my wife works for uncle Sam and a law was passed that civilian govt employees can only stay five years overseas before they have to return to the states. As much as I love Germany I will argue that the Germans benefited so much more than we did with us having our troops there.

[SoCalDem]

32. They probably did..

But we were there because we wanted to be .. Without our presence in Germany, who knows what Europe would look like today ..That's a scary thought, eh??

it might all be "Greater Russia".. They reaaaallly wanted Europe, and our presence there for all those years kept the USSR in check.

[Retired AF Dem]

34. I know exactly what Europe would look like

I truly believe the reason we invaded the Continent was two fold, to beat Germany and to keep the Russians from having it all since they would of defeated Germany on their own.

[Bandit]

26. WE MUST CLEAN UP THE TOXINS WE POLLUTED THE BASES WITH..

Only in the America we remember. This is the Bush* Amerika and we don't need to clean up nuttin. Who's gunna make us? Swagger, swagger, throw out the chest.

[tlcandie]

35. They only have to clean according to the country's rules not the US

rules. Read an article about the mess of toxins and crap left at the base in the Phillipines.

Possibly Germany's enviornmental rules are better than ours, but will they enforce them against the US Military?

[tlcandie]

36. DANG BUG!

[SoCalDem]

43. Bug??

:shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

11. But soldiers still need recreation facilities, like movie theaters,

swimming pools, baseball diamonds, basketball courts, gyms. They need chapels, hospitals, libraries, and a PX (base store to you civilians.) I guess they don't need a commisary if they all live in barracks and eat in the mess halls but I don't see it being a huge savings.

It will sure play hell with morale if all overseas duty is going to be "without family." It won't help the army's morals, either. I'd expect more pregnancies among female soldiers, more VD due to soldiers being with prostitutes, more divorces, etc.

[SoCalDem]

13. The new warriors don't "need" those facilities, if they are

fighting all the time.. There will be some facilities, but they will be mobile units.

The military wants out of the "real estate business".. With mobile units in third world countries, they can pollute to their hearts' content, and then just pack it up..and move on...

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

12. //

My husband was an Army brat and grew up on posts all over the world. Then he joined the Army and was in for 12 years. He got out when our daughter was 18 months old.

There was a saying in the Army waaaaaay back in the day: "Soldier, if the Army wanted you to have a wife, it would have ISSUED you one."

Guess that attitude is coming back, eh?

[DeepModem Mom]

16. kick

[WLKjr]

19. My Uncle Has Been Saying This For Years

He is retired AF and always spoke highly of how the military took care of it's soldiers, expecially the AF being at the top of the list. But after bush got in and started fucking with things, it's went to hell in a handbasket and people aren't realizing it yet.

[Malikshah]

20. As an Army Brat

I fully agree that any further inroads against families will result in disaster.

I grew up on bases--it wasn't until I was 8 that I found out that not everyone's Dad worked for the military (we were in VA then)

It's a different sort of life, but a necessary one for our military. The sacrifices that the men and women of the military and their families make is being shat upon by the current regime.

It sickens me that new recruits are brainwashed into the Republican mind-set. Hopefully, folks will waken up and see the reality.

BTW-- when my bro was in the army, he new of families and others (enlisted) having to settle for foodstamps and inadquate housing to get by. (this was in the late eighties)

[Mari333]

21. Claim Vs Fact: treatment of Troops during a time of war

Its mind boggling, again, how many lies Bush has told


TROOPS

“Seeing the care that these troops get is comforting for me and Laura. We should and must provide the best care for anybody who is willing to put their life in harm's way.”

– President Bush, 1/17/03
The President made these comments on the same day that his Administration announced it was cutting off access to its health care system for approximately 164,000 veterans. The Administration also is pushing a cut of $1.5 billion in military housing/medical facility funding, despite the fact that UPI reports “hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait - sometimes for months - to see doctors.”

– Wash Post, 1/17/03, UPI, 10/17/03



http://www.kintera.org/AccountTempFiles/cf/%7BE9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E06E03%7D/bushtroops.htm

[giant_robot]

25. Taking the family element out of the military

will hurt the single soldier, as well. I recall that when I was in the Air Force the sense of family extended into the community, especially when I was posted at some smaller bases. I was like and uncle to my buddies' kids, and I can't even count how many times my married friends have had a slew of barracks-dwellers over on holidays like X-mas or thanksgiving. I don't think I'd look back on my military career quite so fondly if things were different.

[demigoddess]

27. bush economics

As an armybrat, airforcebrat and an airforce wife, I think this is the bush version on what reagan did to the military. A way of cutting money expended on the military while looking like you are doing something good for the military. I can tell stories.

[SoCalDem]

28. Removing families is a shortsighted response to financial woes

and it also removes another barrier to "soldiers behaving badly".. Having a family on-base helps to keep the younger soldiers from being "adventurous" with the locals.. Some will stray anyway, but the loneliness is reduced if he has family with him..

I would bet that a generation after this happens, there will be fewer sons and daughters who will choose military life..If the "new" volunteer military is smart, they would encourage these 2nd generation soldiers, instead of trying to eliminate them..

The "roving-band-of-warriors" mentality may be a scare tactice to our "enemies", but in the world we live in, that's actually a dangerous idea..

[LibraLabSoldier]

33. Speaking as a soldier.....

My family has been put through the ringer. Constant moves. Not knowing if I am deploying because my unit changed its mind four times...Being treated like white trash because we are military. My wife unable to get and keep a job because of all the holes in her employment record....

The Bush government has treated the soldiers like so much chattel...The give us paltry raises, our bases are falling apart...we are expected to give more, and more and more....until we are too wounded to continue fighting, then they try to give you the least amount of treatment and money they can get away with.

Most soldiers I know are gonna vote for Kerry in the fall. Not because we are completely thrilled with him, but because we cant survive (literally) another four years of "i didnt really serve but your damn sure gonna" Dubya Bush.

Hate the war, but support the troops.

[SoCalDem]

37. I don't know how young soldiers do it these days..

My father was enlisted, and we lived very well (Panama for 8 yrs)and a few other places. (he was an instructor at the SoA :(..)But our life was wonderful.. We had a gorgeous base, (no A/C, but in the 50's most people didn't have it).. Top notch facilities, and the essence of family.. Everyone knew everyone, and base life was really HOME..

My friend's son joined the Army, and they lived in a HOVEL in upstate NY..(forgot the base name).. They were too proud to go for food stamps, but did go to the "pantries" near the base..

Just like you said, she could not find a job, and they made barely enough to exist on..

That's no way to treat the people who defend us, and are ready to sacrifice their lives..

and for the ones who get hurt?? They will NEVER be "healed".. I have another friend who was injured in Viet Nam.. We live about 20 minutes from Pettis Hospital, and they moved his physical therapy sessions to a place near San Diego.. So now he can rarely get to them.. The did not exactly STOP them, they just made it so hard, that he can;t get to them..

It's all about the promises made...and then so easily broken..

Soldiers cannot break THEIR promise, but their country does it all the time to THEM..

[LibraLabSoldier]

39. NObody loves a soldier

until the enemy is at the gate....Americans see how much military spending increases, and they just assume soldiers get extra money. When i was living at fort polk, Louisiana, they demolished my house after I moved out because of dangerously high levels of asbestos...i have two small children. I didnt think it was funny.


We get treated like trash, we get involuntarily extended, and we get killed for dubious reasons. THis is why the all volunteer army is going byebye.....You can only abuse slaves so much before there is an exodus....lol

[SoCalDem]

40. I am so glad you found us.. There are few places where soldiers can

"grumble" these days.. There are lots of vets here who have found their way out of the "swamp"..


We appreciate what you and the others have done for us.. Lip service is what most soldiers get UNTIL they are asked to "serve"..

Most families (unless they are the upper crusties) have or have had military people in their own families, and it boggles the mind to see how stingy they can be.. Billions for tanks and planes, and pennies for the men and women who operate them.. Makes no sense..

anyhoo.. Welcome to DU :hi:

[LibraLabSoldier]

41. Cost effective....

Its cheaper to replace the soldiers than it is to replace the equipment...although they are having problems. Did you guys know that up to 60 % of SF and SO (special forces and special operations) soldiers with up to 20 years of experience are leaving the service to go and DO THE SAME JOBS for civilian contractors for up to three hundred thousand dollars a year? DId you also know that most of their money comes from no-bid government contracts? That KBR is scrimping on what they give to soldiers in food and services to save money?

Maybe they should just outsource our military...It would save them a lot of money, and they wouldnt have to worry with outdated concepts such as honor, integrity, and courage.

[SoCalDem]

42. Yes we DO know that.. We have been complaining and writing letters

since 2001.. We know about DynCorps/KBR/ and all the "under the radar" Rent-a-Soldier groups.. This is a dangerous precedent too.. Not only does it COST SO MUCH more, it leaves the military dangerously low in numbers..hence the call-ups..

These Rent-an-Army people are in Colombia, Venezuela, Haiti, and all over the globe..

Because they are "unofficial", their allegiance is to their wallet and their corporation...NOT THE US.. Things can be, and ARE done , that are totally unacceptable in the military..and their actions endanger the real soldiers..

AbuGhraib is a prime example.. The "unofficials" there directed and participated in the atrocities that happened, and since they are "considered to be American soldiers" by the loclas, ALL soldiers are thought to be just like them..:(..

You cannot blame soldiers for wanting to be paid ten times what they make in the military, but it creates voids in our military that are hard to fill..

The airforce used to gripe all the time about training pilots, and just as they got "really good", United or TWA or some other airline would steal them away from the AF.. But this mercenray thing is waaaay different.. It's really dangerous.

[DU GrovelBot]

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