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OK. Why do we need the "Dept. of Homeland Security" ??

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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:18 AM
Original message
OK. Why do we need the "Dept. of Homeland Security" ??
Don't we already have the FBI and CIA, as well as Immigration Services, local police, Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, and the National Guard? Why do we need ANOTHER police bureaucracy? It seems like most of the government is focused on "THE ENEMY" instead of the details of democracy.

It's just like Orwell's "1984". I'm sick of this oppressive fascist police state crap. It's time to disband the Dept. of Homeland Security. It reminds me of US version the KGB.

:dem:


Read about the Right-Wing "Master Plan": http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Have you read "War is a Racket"?: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Read George Orwell's classic "1984" free online here: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've often wondered how "Homeland Security" differs from "Defense"
n/t
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. One is starring Donald Rumsfeld, and the other one...
... stars John Ashcroft, with Tom Ridge co-starring....
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think they are the same thing most of the time.
Edited on Sat Jul-31-04 12:30 AM by porkrind
Usually, the corporate-run US government is trying to suppress its citizenry as well as other countries at the same time.

:(

Also, I forgot to add to my list of agencies:

ATF (alcohol, tobacco, firearm)
DEA (drug enforcement agency)
Private security companies (corporate mercenaries such as CACI and Blackwater)

Any I missed?

On Edit: Oops, how could I forget Cheney's evil "Office of Special Plans"?

:dem:


Read about the Right-Wing "Master Plan": http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Have you read "War is a Racket"?: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Read George Orwell's classic "1984" free online here: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I don't get it either. What's it all about...'Alfie'??
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GaInGrEEn Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Homeland Security is Immigration
Homeland Security is Immigration now. All you documents when applying to BCIS come back from Homeland security.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. And why do we need a new agency to coordinate intelligence?
Isn't that what the Central Intelligence Agency is supposed to do?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. No
The CIA is only for foreign intelligence and is never supposed to poke its nose into anything in the US. The FBI is supposed to be only for US law enforcement. Two totally different agencies with totally different purposes. Who compete with each other, have turf wars, and have laws that prevent some communication. Along with a whole bunch of other intelligence gathering agencies. If we aren't willing to cut any of the intelligence units we have, then one coordinator of intelligence might be a good idea. Although I doubt it.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. just change the law
Put CIA over FBI. Same rules, but put one in charge. Heavy supervision though.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Oh lord no
I would never in a million years want the CIA to have the kind of access to US citizens with the kind of power the CIA has. No, the CIA is a snooping organization, the FBI is a crime solving organization. We need to do some fixing, but too much mixing of the two here at home is a bad idea.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. Just an excuse to give more power to the executive branch....
Everyone at Homeland Security bows to the boy king. When they make the new "intelligence Czar" a cabinet position, it will seal the deal. Then they can claim executive privilege and keep intelligence data away from the spying eyes of the Senate and Congress.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. To coordinate all those agencies
So that all of these scattered agencies work together and communicate, except the military isn't in Homeland Security I don't think. They're under one roof so that INS can do something if they should happen across bioweapons when they're looking for illegals. That sort of thing. Done correctly, it's not that bad of an idea. Done correctly.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Since when did the government
EVER do anything correctly?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. WWII??? n/t
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. I think terrorism is a boogeyman.
How many US citizens have we lost to terrorism in the last 3 years? Maybe ~4,000 including 9/11 and not including soldiers killed in this pointless war. For comparison, about:

100,000 people die each year in the US from medical malpractice
40,000 from car accidents,
15,000 from falls,
14,000 from accidental poisoning and chemical exposure,
30,000 from suicide,
20,000 from assault,
etc. ... you get the idea.

Don't we have bigger problems to worry about? All of these police and military agencies are mainly about protecting corporate interests abroad, war profiteering, creating a market for the military-industrial complex, and finally, providing a diversionary enemy to unite right-wingers and distract attention from the real ills of this country.

"To coordinate all those agencies" my ass.

:dem:


Read about the Right-Wing "Master Plan": http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Have you read "War is a Racket"?: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Read George Orwell's classic "1984" free online here: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. It's not just lives
But money too. Terrorism has cost us trillions of dollars.
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I think that's the point
Terrorism itself is a minor issue. Turning it into a boogeyman to scare the public into spending anything to protect itself is like you say, a trillion dollar business.

War (terrorism) is a racket.

:dem:


Read about the Right-Wing "Master Plan": http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Have you read "War is a Racket"?: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Read George Orwell's classic "1984" free online here: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984
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Murdock Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. Okay, so can someone explain what the 9/11 Commision wants?
An Office of Counterterrorism? A Counter terrorism Czar?

Another homeland security type office on top of the others?

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. The findings of the 9/11 commission were a huge and terrible
embarrassment for Chimpy. It effectively rendered the current "Office of Homeland Security" ineffective, if you ask me. That's the main reason Chimpy et al. were panicking down in Crawford, trying to come up with those suggestions from the commission that Chimpy would "accept." Congress has taken matters into its own hands, and the executive branch doesn't seem to like that too much.

I think the commission is basically saying that the office is not going to be be enough and that the executive branch has not done what needs to be done. It'll probably be dumped after awhile.

And think of things this way: What does this say about our current National Security Advisor?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. Want Homeland Security?
Desolve it and reconstitute a Department of Energy.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yeah, no kidding.
Get us off Mideast oil...that would do more to crush radical Islamic terrorism than anything else.
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Spot On !
Also, remember the golden rule. If we would stop messing with other countries, we would have more friends. You don't see the "'terrists" messing with Canada do you?

:dem:


Read about the Right-Wing "Master Plan": http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Have you read "War is a Racket"?: http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Read George Orwell's classic "1984" free online here: http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984
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MajorFlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. The reason we need a Department of Homeland Security is so that
we know who to blame the next time we are attacked. Without it, we might be tempted to blame the president.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
18. IMO: Home Land Security is a waste of money!
I see nothing good that the are doing besides harassing innocent people!
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ronabop Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-04 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. Those stupid, insane..... democrats?
Trying to consolidate a lot of duplicated efforts into one department.

Why the hell would they want to do that?

(I suggest you learn why DHS was created)

-Bop
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