Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush is really frightening kids who care

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:08 PM
Original message
Bush is really frightening kids who care
Last night I was trying to calm down a boy who was sobbing, saying that he won't grow up to be as old as his parents or grandparents because the govenment and corporations are destroying the world. I told him that was why we were fighting to get rid of Bush. His next question was whether getting rid of Bush was good enough or whether the corporations would be able to continue to destroy the Earth. America's youth are getting frightened and our responsiblity doesn't stop with getting rid of Bush. We need to make sure the next Speaker of the House is someone like Dennis who will stop the corporate greed. We also need to stop voting for candidates who won't put the environment first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you, great post, genius
I thought I was the only person who went through this with her kid. My daughter is terrified by what she sees going on, and her dislike of bush is so strong it's scary. But her emotions sometimes get the better of her and she loses it (she's 10).

I only wish she could vote!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Mine have been experiencing fear from the actions of the Nitwit* in Charge
for quite some time. They understand that their schools will be crappier this year than they were last year and they noticed a decline last year from the year before.

His warmongering has them concerned about how the rest of the world perceives the US, whether he'll use nukes, and other related issues.

The deficit is mentioned frequently, and the damage that is being done to the environment is high on their list of concerns, also.

The future doesn't look too positive to them right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. The real answer to fighting corporate power
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:17 PM by Feanorcurufinwe
will be a constitutional amendment repealing corporate personhood. I see this as a multigenerational struggle, and a difficult one, because so few even are aware of the issue, but it is a fight we must win!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CheshireCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Repealing corporate person hood
A constitutional amendment repealing corporate person hood is a must! I am so glad to see someone mention it

Most people do not understand this issue. We need to organize around this issue and to publicize it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrboba1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. what exactly does "corporate personhood" entail?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Put simply it means that corporations are 'natural persons'
under the Constitution and have all the rights of a 'natural person'.

Do some googling under 'corporate personhood' and read up on the Supreme Court case 'Santa Clara Co. v Southern Pacific RR' and its consequences -- it's an eyeopener.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You're absolutely right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carson Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a thought
and perhaps it's just me, but maybe children that young shouldn't be exposed to all the political negativity.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They should get free tickets to The Passion of the Christ instead!
:eyes:

You say "negativity." Others say "material conditions." The first is supposedly avoidable; the second is not. Children know damn well their material conditions, though they may not be able to articulate causes. It is not a question of "exposing" them. they are "exposed" as can be - in every sense of the term - under the illegal Bush government. It is a question, rather, of providing them with hope, and of showing that the adults in their lives are brave enough, and responsible enough to get rid of this pack of criminals currently assaulting our children.

If I was 16, looking at a draft and mandatory service in Iraq coming down the pike, or looking at the loss of Title IX and women's rights across the board, or looking at the revival of heavy gang activity and crime in my community as a result of the Bush criminals looting of the federal treasury for their billionaire budies, you damn right I'd be scared, and angry, and I'd know exactly what was going on. If I was 8, and my Dad lost his job, and we had to sell the family house, and move in with the grandparents for a while, and had no movies of field trips in school, and no more afterschool program, I would not be dealing with "political negativity" that I could avoid, but with material conditions, the place where bullshit ideology meets the hard facts of the Real. Right there. I know. I remember the same thing happening under reagan. To me. Political negativity? Exposing? You must have some luxury to avoid such "negativity." Bah!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carson Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Would I rather
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:41 PM by Carson
... my nine-year old son be blithely riding his skateboard and happily playing video games or would I rather he hear me contantly spewing doomsday predictions and making him unhappy about things he can do absolutely nothing about?

I'll choose the blithely happy, thank you.

If the house payment is going to be late, I don't vent my worry to my child. During 9/11 I forbade him to watch any more coverage because it upset him so. When Bush* makes me so angry and sick I can barely breath, I don't let my son see me rant.

Call me an ostritch but that's the way I'm raising my child. Let him get older and better able to understand and handle the world. Right now I just want him to be a child.

I'm fortunate to be able to do this.

(edited for spelling)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You are fortunate to be able to shield your child
from the criminal reality of Bush's assault on him.

Very fortunate indeed. Apparently the material conditions your son lives in haven't declined as others. Where you get the idea that the original poster was venting about the house payments, i don't know. It's a nice dodge however. I'm talking about children understanding their own material conditions. They do. So yes, you are fortunate, butdon't take your good fortune for a general condiion, then moralize on that basis. That's what you're doing here, and it's fucking disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. At what age will you teach him to think critically?
At what age will you snap off the TV with the indictment "IT LIES!"? Will you be ready for the fallout when he discovers that the world is not a cool video game but a place where bills fall due and creditors don't care give a tinker's damn about you? Or that it's a place where he can and will be sent to die (NOT a video game!) on the whim of a man who has never answered the call?

What age is it OK to begin those lessons? No, I'm not suggesting that you drop your kid into the deep end of the sewer, but you have to introduce these concepts gradually. Otherwise he's going to be in for one hell of a shock.

I am the proud mother of a 10-year-old skeptic. We both like it that way. By the time she'll be of voting age, she should be able to see through most of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. How would you suggest avoiding it? I could keep them home from
school so that don't realize that their schools are declining. I could forbid them from ever reading a newspaper. I could make up some silly excuse when it is the local news and paper reporting the most polluted waterways in my area that are no longer safe for swimming and/or fishing. How about, 'throw it back just 'cause I said so' not because it's unsafe to eat. And that the haze over the Smoky Mtn. National Park is nothing to be concerned about. Should I also tell them that the last reported leak from the nearby nuclear plant didn't happen no matter what they read or heard?

Just wondering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Some people have the privilege of ignoring their surroundings
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:37 PM by markses
It must be nice....

People like you and me, however, have to deal with the hard realities of life under the criminal Bush regime, while some others get to "avoid" the "political negativity" in their special gated communities. People like us shouldn't be so negative, they say. I say FUCK THEM. We'll stop being negative when you stop leeching off our work like a pack of parasites. Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carson Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I'm not sure if you
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 03:10 PM by Carson
were implying that I live in a "special gated community", but I'll respond anyway:

For 5 years of my son's life (he's now nine), we lived in government housing. Not pleasant by a long shot. However, my son was still a happy child. He had most definitely the basics and perhaps a few "luxuries". I didn't daily rave about our situation to him and how difficult life was. He could do nothing to improve the situation and I wanted him to be as happy and carefree as possible.

I do agree, however, that there is nothing wrong with discussing political matters with children. I just happen to think it should be done with moderation and discretion, deserving to the age.

But I suppose I'm being "fucking disgusting" as you so eloquently put it.

Ah well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Sometimes
the most vulgar is the most eloquent (as even Cicero knew).

Once again, you misrepresent the case. Nobody is arguing that children shouldn't be provided with as happy and carefree an environment as is possible. As for my argument, it is simple: There is not even a possibility of shielding children from their own material conditions. they live these conditions, and these conditions are real, and produce real effects, everyday, on the body and the soul. So your initial claim that one could avoid such u7ncomfortable situations as children reflecting on their own material conditions by merely "avoiding political negativity" is absolute nonsense. That's the point. Now, whether you live in a gated community actually or only metaphorically is another story. Certainly, you seem to believe that material conditions can be wished away with games and laughter, and children need not attend to them or - indeed - cannot even notice them if parents refrain from "complaining" or "speaking negatively about the bills." This is simply stupid, and - above all - condescending in the extreme to children themselves. If that's how you raise your kids, whatever. You know them less than you think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I know firsthand what happens when you hyper-shelter a child
I was hypersheltered by my strict Catholic parents. The minute I was out of the house, I made some very bad life choices because nobody had ever taught me any judgement about sexual matters. I had no critical thinking skills, and I suffered because of that deficiency.

In another example, my stepson was hypersheltered by his mother. He is now 18 and barely knows how to tie his own shoes. He doesn't know who the vice president is. His mother insisted that his childhood experience be one of pristine small-town "purity," and one day soon the world is going to eat him alive. There's not much I can do to help the kid now...he has no judgement, none at all.

My daughter is growing up differently. I will not send her out into the world unarmed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. How young is "that young?"
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:36 PM by lapislzi
I think 10 is old enough to know what's going on in the world. Would that we could swaddle them in cotton batting until their 18th birthdays...NOT!

An informed, thoughtful child will grow into an informed, thoughtful voter.

edited for clarity
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Should we lie to them or just hide the truth?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Nonsense. It is important that it be kept in perspective, though.
Giving kids a sense that humanity is doomed is not constructive in the least. They need to be reassured that there are lots of people of conscience trying to work to protect the Earth and the rights of its inhabitants, that this is a battle that goes way back and will probably always continue. That we have made a great deal of progress, but are dealing with some heavy setbacks right now.

Trying to sanitize reality and keep them in the little fanntasy bubble of TV, video games, Spiderman and theme parks really shortchanges them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have two sons, one just three, and
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 01:31 PM by Minstrel Boy
your post really speaks to me. Last night, at the park, my three-year old looked up at the sky and said "Look at those clouds. They look ugly." He hasn't known what blue skies looked like before they were smeared with chemtrails. What will the sky look like when he's my age? He's never known leaving the house without parents slathering him with sunscreen.

And also, I remember myself at 10 in 1970, becoming hysterical hearing Nixon announce the Vietnam War now officially encompassed Cambodia. I wasn't American, I wasn't at risk of being drafted down the road, but I knew about escalation, and how things could spiral out of control. And at 10, there's precious little you can control.

And today, both children and adults have less authority over their lives, and events are spiralling even faster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. This may seem like strange advice but take your kids to see
Edited on Thu Jul-29-04 02:00 PM by Hoping4Change

The Corporation. It is real easy to understand and is funny as well.
And really inspiring. It shows people from really disadvantaged backgrounds who by working together fought corporations and won.

It also shows corporations who have enlightened CEOs who do feel a sense of responsibility and are committed to making the world better.

Being scared is not a good place for a child to be. They can be overwhelmed by their fears just as adults can. "The Corporation" brings corporations down to size.


View trailer http://www.thecorporation.tv/trailer /


http://www.thecorporation.tv/usa /
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I second that. Give them some control, work for justice.
Fear/anxiety without action is overwhelming, even for adults. Talk about what's going on, but then GET OUT THERE and do something! Attend a rally, pass out pamphlets, have the kids write letters and send them. It's not the "reality" that gets people, it's the feeling of hopelessness and inability to do anything about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm in grad school for teaching right now...
and the big issue on the platter these days is how to teach the kids about the environment without giving them a sense of hopelessness?

alot of the work you'll see in schools (if you haven't yet) wiil be in the form of ecological service projects - on the field. Real problems, real data gathered, and real results: an experience they won't soon forget. I highly reccomend this as a way to empower kids: Don't just teach them about the problems, involve them in the solutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I've been teaching an environmental science course for a decade ...
Intro college, and a lot of my students go on to get teaching degrees. You're right -- it's tricky to explain the seriousness of the issues without bumming people out. I've been trying hard to switch back and forth between describing the problems, and examining various kinds of solutions (including ones they can do themselves). I don't try to trivialize the problems, but point out that it's possible to do something about them if we're prepared to change our way of thinking. (Some humour helps as well!)

So we looked at ozone depletion, and what looks like a success in terms of legislation (the world community scrambled to create the Vienna Convention and Montreal Protocol) -- and I used a case study of the "Greenfreeze" no-CFC fridge developed by Greenpeace and a European company -- then described the Clinton Administration's prosecution of CFC smugglers.

Then I used the Montreal Protocol to describe how the proposed greenhouse gases treaties would work. Students in a previous class had put together a challenge to Canada's Environment Minister (our local member of parliament) to reduce his emissions by 1 tonne per year. (A version of this challenge is now on the federal government climate website.) Telling students things like "1 litre of gasoline turns into more than 2 kilos of greenhouse gases", then introducing the local car-sharing co-op, and a project that's selling "carbon sequestration credits", resulted in a lot of interest (not least because of potential jobs in environmental technology).

I talked about the loss of agricultural and wild biodiversity, and distributed free samples of heirloom seeds at the end of the lecture. (Every time I do this, they all get snatched up.)

I'm considering adding a new unit on "ethical investment" because so many people were asking about it, in connection with our unit on "lifecycle analysis" of consumer products (sometimes the students do product breakdowns on behalf of community groups, as field projects -- something which you already noted is helpful).

One of the nicest testimonials I had was from a student whose husband was serving in Afghanistan. We spent some time in the course talking about "failed states" and the connection between environmental degradation and civil unrest. She told me that the course had helped her see "the big picture" and that she now saw terrorism as a symptom of political, economic, and environmental mistakes, not the Satanic "evil" invoked by Bush -- and that she's now considerably more hopeful about the possibility of ordinary people making the world better.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-29-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. "Cable in the Classroom" will erase his fears...
If the other side have their way. Give'em Prozac or Ritalin, have'em watch a sliver of corporate-worshipping "news" between a bunch of commercials for sweet junk food with kids skateboarding and bungee jumping, and the buzz will last them until they get home to their overpriced hovels. By that time they'll be too sleepy to worry about the ffate of the world. Oh, and of course we've all heard how the right has started their movement to purge thge schools of liberal professors and teachers.

Soon our kids will all think everything is hunky-dory, even as the world and our country go up in flames.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 16th 2014, 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC