Help me convince a Naderite to vote for Kerry.

[coloradodem2005]

I know that first, Nader is not in it to win. Kerry is in it to win. Colorado is in play. Politics is a game of compromise and one is not going to get everything they want. If you hate Bush so much, voting for Nader is not going to help.


People, help me expand on the vote for Nader is a vote for Bush argument.

[Doctor_J]

1. anyone thinking of voting fr Ralph this time

is probably too far gone to be rescued. He isn't even pretending to have something positive this year.

[coloradodem2005]

2. Help me out here.

[lottie244]

3. If Carter couldn't change his mind...forget it!!

If he heard Carter and Clinton and still wants to vote for Nader...drop him as a friend. His ignorance is dangerous.

[GaryL]

4. Sorry!

If your friend is so pig stupid to vote for Nader in any capacity, there's no hope. Every Nader friend I've got I've convinced them long ago he no longer deserves their vote. And I live in Texas! If this person doesn't have the sense not to vote for Nader in a swing state, jettison their ass and find some intelligent pals.

[Warpy]

5. Ask him if he really wants another 4 years of Bush

If he gives you nonsense about "well, maybe that's what it will take to wake the country up," tell him the country may not live long enought to wake up. We're in this for survival, not ideology. If he says both parties are the same, ask him who Clinton raised taxes on, how many countries he invaded, what unemployment was.

If he just keeps repeating the same old crap despite the facts, then cut your losses and move on. You can try to teach a pig to sing opera, but it won't work and it annoys the pig.

[Mortos]

6. I am going to suggest using the friendship card

plead with him, tell him why you feel so strongly that Bush must be defeated. Beg him, threaten him, use your friendship as a weapon. I am serious. If he refuses to see the importance of this to the future of America, then I would be hard pressed to remain friends with him. I respect people who vote for Bush more than those stubborn Nader supporters.

On edit - ...and I don't respect the people who vote for Bush this time at all.

[CTLawGuy]

14. why not just threaten to kill him?

:eyes:

Jeez....

This sort of arm-twisting behavior is not productive. Saying "I won't be your friend if you vote for Nader" reflects badly on us as a party. Surely, Coloradodem can be reasonable with his friend.

[Downtown Hound]

7. The other day I told a Nader supporting friend of mine

about how Nader was allowing the Republicans to do his signature drives for him. I told her that this was selling out, which was exactly what Nader has always accused the Democrats of. She was appalled, and instantly turned on Nader. What's the difference between taking direct corporate cash and support or taking the support of the people who represent corporations. There is none. Nader is a hypocrite.

Another thing I tell Nader supporters is, let's just defy all logic and pretend that Nader did become president. There is no way in hell he would ever get anything done. Both parties in Congress would oppose him. He would be the most impotent president in history. And every world leader would laugh their ass of at him.

Tell him/her that Kerry's platform is 90 percent similar to Nader's. He has an even more liberal voting record than Ted Kennedy. Yes he voted for the Iraq war and the Patriot Act, but that was the result of a weak Democratic platform at the time. There is no way he would have initiated those things if he was president. Tell him that he could have someone who would be the exact opposite of Bush in the White House, even if he isn't perfect, or he could have four more years of war, deficits, job losses, environmental destruction, and domestic oppression. If that doesn't convince them then nothing will. Your friend has drunk Nader's Kool Aid. Good luck!

On edit: You can also tell them that Medea Benjamin, his former running mate, has endorsed Kerry. You can find it on www.commondreams.org

Jeaneane Garafolo, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, and The Green Party as an organization, have all turned their backs on Nader. If that isn't a good indicator that Nader is not the way to go this time, then nothing is.

[coloradodem2005]

11. Where could I find the info about the Republicans backing Nader?

Give me links. I want to put them in my email.

[Downtown Hound]

13. Simply do a google search

Type in Republican support for Nader, and hit enter. You'll get dozens of responses. I can't give you a better link because I read it in the newspapers. Sorry.

[The Spirit of JFK]

16. Well here for starters....

www.opensecrets.org


You can look up campaign donations, so you can see who Individuals and groups) donated to Nader's campaign....and then look up those names and see if they donated to Bush and Co, as well.

Like this...

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=TANOUS&txtState=%28all+states%29&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&Order=N

You will see that the largest individual donor to Nader has also given tons of money to Bush and other Conservatives, Just a start....

[The Spirit of JFK]

8. If they aren;t smart enough to do the work themselves...

Well, you could start by pointing out how much money Republican contributors are giving to Nader (and the possible campaign violations that come out of it...they are being investigated). Even the REPUBLICANS think a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush....

Then ask them if, like Nader, they think there was (is) no difference betweem the Bush administraion and what Gore would have likely done in the past 4 years.

Ask who they WOULD have voted for if they didn't vote for Nader?

Then ask them why places like the Sierra Club lobbied to keep Nader OFF the ballot. The Sierra Club was on of the major organizations who endorsed Nader only after Nader promised them he would NOT actually go through with the race.

Yadda yadda yadda....

[earthside]

9. I'm Green and Anti-Nader

As chair of the Jefferson County Greens, send this person to my web site Earthside.com, have them e-mail me ... I opposed Nader at the Green Party National Convention in Milwaukee last month, my side won. Nader lost a great deal of credibility and respect among Greens there ... other independents and Naderites need to understand why the Greens rejected Ralph.

I often say (about so many things) that "you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

Now sometimes you have to fight for a cause you believe in, sometimes that is important to change the basis of the debate. I personally think Greens did that in 2002 on the war issue ... Democrats needed to be challenged, they were becoming milquetoasts. But what happened in the election two years ago and Howard Dean's primary campaign this year are the reasons Democrats are starting to show some spine and fight this year.

In 2004, the REAL fight is about saving the nation, not reforming the political parties. While John Kerry is by no means perfect (especially for a liberal anti-corporatist like me), he IS good enough.

The important issues of the day have moved way past what Ralph wants to talk about.

Nader has sadly become a ... a well, he's just sad.

[Strawman]

15. You nailed it

"I often say (about so many things) that 'you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.'"

That's exactly what Howard Dean said in his debate against Ralph Nader. It just seems intuitive to me.

Look, real people's real lives depend on this election. That's another point Dean made in the debate. Ralph cannot win. No one contests that. You want to build an alternative party, pick local races, especially ones where the Democrats aren't even trying (there are plenty). Campaign for IRV in your state/locality and change the rules first so that you run candidates later without just being spoilers. That's a real long term strategy for building a multi-party system. Al Gore or John Kerry would not have launched this war. Al Gore or John Kerry wouldn't have blocked stem cell research. Al Gore or John Kerry wouldn't have let seniors in the northeast freeze to death by cutting their heating assistance. Those are important differences that warrant compromising one's ideological purity for this election. Realistically, John Kerry is about as liberal as any Presidential candidate can be while still being electable at this point in time. A vote for Nader is throwing away an opportunity to save lives.

[MichiganVote]

10. Two things and you have my permission to send this to your friend

I respect Ralph Nader for what he has offered this country. His service has been helpful and invaluable to thousands. No one should denigrate his contributions.

However this is a presidential election. Not a union vote, not a spot on 60 minutes and not a time for diatribes against the Bush administration that liken those Nader once delivered to GM,Ford and Chrysler.

When Ralph Nader accepted the signatures that were sponsored by the Republican party to get on the ballot in Michigan, I surrendered my respect for Ralph. I understand his reasons and that's fine. But here is the rub, as a voter, does he understand my objections? Does he understand that I as a voter am repulsed by this action on the part of the Republicans and by his action? I don't believe he does.

So I cannot count on Ralph Nader to lead me and my countrymen responsibly;to reject the temptations that the Republicans place before me to 'take the easy way out'. More importantly, Ralph Nader is not listening to voters like me and I've already lived with that scenario for the past 4 years. I know where that path leads.

The simple fact is, Ralph Nader has made his point and it was and is a good one. Yet to blame the demise of political freedom solely at the feet of the Democrats is to make Ralph Nader the biggest Republican around. At this time, I reject the Republican party because they are working to reduce the Democrats to the status of a people's union.

If the Democrats are the people's union, its one of the last ones we have. The question facing Naderites is, will you unite to destroy what is left of this people's union or build on what is available to make it stronger?

I have a son in the military. I know that hazards and bullshit our sons and daughters are withstanding first hand. Does Ralph Nader? No.

I work in a school system. The cuts have been astronomical. I know what the majority of low income children have to look forward to in school and at home. It isn't pretty. Does Ralph Nader? No.

I have paid into Social Security and all the rest of the taxes for many,many years. Will Ralph Nader guarantee that I am not about to be robbed by my own government? No.

My health insurance costs, my property taxes and my state fees and assessments are going throught the roof. Is Ralph Nader here to help me with that. No. He has a political message that however important will not feed me and countless others, secure my shelter, or bring our soldiers home.

Thank you Ralph Nader for your contributions on the consumer end of things in this society. But for president? Sorry, you need not apply.
Today I need this people's union to keep the republicans accountable.

[JI7]

12. don't spend too much time on it

even after you tell them some of these things if they don't listen. then just try to get others to vote for kerry.

[jmags]

17. Go to Eric Altermans weblog on MSNBC

He has posted a ton of info regarding all of Nader's GOP ties in this election. After nailing your friend with all the info showing Nader is up to his neck in GOP money and signatures, ask him how a vote for Nader could be voting for his conscious.

The democrats have been funded by small contributions from people across the country, and helped out by 527s like MoveOn, also funded from contributions from people across the country. They wouldn't have anywhere the money they have without the people.

Nader is funded by high level GOP boosters. He wouldn't even have a campaign without them.

Who's purer now?