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Here is Barack Obama's e-mail. Tell him he's a traitor

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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:56 PM
Original message
Here is Barack Obama's e-mail. Tell him he's a traitor
info@obamaforillinois.com

Today he said "the president has good intentions" and "the president didn't lie about WMD's"

Need I say more? This man is exactly the WRONG thing we want for the party.

Here are the phone numbers as well:

Phone: (312) 427-6300
Fax: (312) 427-6401

I am furious at this traitorous piece of shit.
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:57 PM
Original message
I am STEAMING MAD!!!
how dare he say these things?

I hope that lots of people write letters telling him how upset we are.
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Spygame Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
26. Get a hold of yourself!
Control your emotions. Maybe the guy really believes what he said. That being the case is he not allowed to have opinions? Probably not huh.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
156. Locking....
This has turned into a flamefest and civil
discourse has gone out the window.


DU Moderator
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pocket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. and now we're stuck with him.
aren't we?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Stuck with him? Yeah, a republican would be better.
:eyes:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where or when did he say this? I would think that if he did say that he'd
be quite aware that he'll alienate his supporters (like you).
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. He said it on....
Meet the Whores and Wolfie's show on CNN...Made me so mad!
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I think the guy made a terrible mistake. Just goes to show, you never
really know someone until you 'marry' them. By marry, I mean in this case taking a political candidate for better or worse. He was pretty good at hiding the worse part apparently.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I tried...
I cannot get through to anyone at that number and even the voice mail box seems full....

OBama can go f himself!
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Say it is not so
I am not believing this.

Another Zell ?
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Don't believe it.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama is a good man, a good candidate and a good liberal
saying that he believes bush is "sincere but misguided" is hardly a reason to kick him to the curb. sheesh!

i don't happen to agree with Obama, but then i'm not a good enough politician to be running for the senate.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. He was wonderful on Meet the Press.
He stuck it to Bush just enough to still be courteous.
I had not heard him before and I was very impressed. Russert could not make him back down on anything. Don't rain oh his parade. He made my day.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. i didn't see this particular interview, but from the transcript
it reads like he did well.

I can't believe people here are comparing him to Zell Miller because of one diplomatic statement in one interview.

He can say the war was a mistake, that it's been conducted badly and that he wouldn't have voted for it, but people are eager to string him up because he didn't' go on national television and say "bush is a filthy liar." :eyes: No sense of politics and no sense of proportion.
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Terry_M Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think it's party policy to take for granted us
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:02 PM by Terry_M
"angry liberals".
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That is why Howard Dean...
was our man!
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. I liked "your man" too...
...but he didn't win. Fair or not, he got crucified. We are nearing the finish line, do we want to actually win or just be able to proclaim our moral superiority about how right we were? I want to actually win this thing. At least then we can at least have a conversation about what we believe in. Now we aren't even allowed in the room.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Win what? More Zells?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
74. Now *THAT'S* a reasoned response.....
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
78. seems to me
hyperbolic responses are very prevalent today. I understand the reaction per Obama's comments today .... but to compare those comments to Miller - who is headlining at the GOP convention? Who has written a dem/progressive bashing book? Oh, Please!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
68. "It's easy to second-guess the commander-in-chief at a time of war.
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:46 PM by blm
I choose not to do that." Howard Dean, July 2002 MTP in reply to clip of John Kerry attacking Bush on his military failure at Tora Bora. Dean went on to say that he thought Bush was successful at Tora Bora.

Point being, nobody's perfect. They ALL have their moments of political caution that not all of us would agree with.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd like to see a transcript before I go off half-cocked.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
97. I watched him this morning and I don't recall. I could have missed
it. I thought he came across very well for the democrats.

I have to see the transcript before I have an opinion.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you for the addy... here's what I wrote.....
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:12 PM by Kanary
not that it will be heard, and not that it will do any goood, but at least I was able to have my say:
*************************
Dear Mr. Obama,

I have heard so much about you, and was so excited to learn that we have a DEM candidate who is standing firm and strong for traditional DEM values.

So, I tuned into your interview this morning, only to be sorely disappointed at what I heard. More of the same old rationalizations for DEMs supporting the very ugly policies of this failed misadministration. I can't even begin to tell you how depressing this has become.

Of all years that we DEMs working in the trenches should be able to feel encouraged, enthusiastic, and, yes, even a bit lighthearted, we are very DIScouraged because of this constant drumbeat of spinelessness coming from the leaders we had hoped would LEAD us.

There must be a lot of $$$$ in this for you.
*****************************
I hope the rest of you wrote even stronger messages!

Edited to say........ I just got back the expected auto-response...... telling me where to click to donate, where to click to volunteer.

Yeah, I really feel heard.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. my message was WAY stronger than that
:thumbsdown:
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. care to share?
I'd like to hear some of the others.....
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. subj: "you just blew it, buddy"
Dear Mr. Obama:

I am horrified and dismayed that today you said "the president had good intentions" and "the president didn't lie about WMD's".

What kind of fool are you, sir? What kind of gullible spineless democrat are you attempting to be here?

The echoes of all giant "POOF!" from the votes going up in smoke that you just lost by saying that is still reverberating across the country and will for days now.

The president LIED. Bush and company are a bunch of white-collar GANGSTERS. They have committed acts of TREASON. They are ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE.

Have you noticed how hungry people are for the truth? We want the goddamn truth, and spineless pussies like yourself are selling us down the river.

You, sir, are a grave disappointment and I with you the worst of luck in the PRIVATE SECTOR
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
69. He's already got the election sewn up. He'll win in a landslide.
I'll still be voting for him.

I won't be able to say the same thing in 2006, though.
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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
81. To be nitpicky,
he won't run again until 2010. He's running for a senate seat.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Sorry, I put the wrong year up
But there is a Senatorial election in 2006 in Illinois. Durbin is up for re-election.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:27 PM
Original message
You know, I'm not outraged...
I'd tend to agree with KerryFan and orangepeel68 above, but I also don't see anything wrong with sending a thoughtful, well-reasoned, and passionate letter like this to any candidate with whom we disagree. When a candidate's stance is out of step with his electorate's, he needs to know it. And that's probably the MAIN reason the right has made the gains they have in the past two decades - because they're not afraid to be VOCAL at EVERY opportunity.

So good for you Kanary. And maybe your email won't get read till months from now... or maybe it'll just be tallied into a broad category... or maybe it'll only be read by some junior aide... (I doubt that it'll be totally tossed without reading)... But the fact that you sent it gives us A CHANCE of being heard - and we need all the chances we can get.

Dammit - we're seeing daily evidence of the difference we're making. Hell, if it weren't for a Flint factory worker's kid, there wouldn't be two senators demanding an investigation of the September 13 BinLaden flights! Let's take this as inspiration!

And there's choklit in it for you too.


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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
98. you wag, you! Got me with the chocklit! ^_^
And, thanks for the "thoughtful, well reasoned" slur...... ~~guffaw~~

Unfortunately, thoughtful and well reasoned gets about as much response from politicians as it does from DU. approximately zero. But, every once in a while, someone comes along and shares the choklit.

:toast:

I'm discouraged beyond belief, I feel like I've had the very life sucked out of me by this whole mess, and I'm isolated to the point of being close to panic. But, that matters not to the likes of the DUers........ and that is a big reason for the aforementioned emotions.

So, yes, outrage is part of my daily landscape.

It sure would be nice to live in a country where there was hope, understanding and caring, and a sense of security. (and no, I don't mean the terraists.)

That's not asking for criticism (which is what I'll get for baring my soul), or a pep talk. It's just a slice of my life.

Kanary
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
111. It wasn't meant to be a slur.
It was a thoughtful, well-reasoned SLAM... but it WAS thoughtful and well-reasoned.

And hey, I'm all for SLAMMING a pol or a journo if I think he or she deserves it.

Don't be discouraged, K. Channel that frustration. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. (Margaret Mead)


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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
129. You guys are nuts!!
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 04:04 PM by steviet_2003
Obama is a wonderful dem. He has his race sewn up, unless he makes a major mis-step that the RW attack machine can blow all out of proportion. They tried today with similar trap question by two different whores, and he was too smart to fall into the trap.

This is POLITICS, they are supposed to be politicians! Ever watch their proceedings on C-Span? Have you ever seen a more "polite" and tactful proceeding? Even the most liberal Dems refer to pigs like santorum as "my esteemed colleague," and vice versa.

If Obama had called bunnypants a treasonous liar it would have been headlines all over not only the Chicago and Illinois papers, but across the nation. It is about the only thing that could do him serious harm.

Kanary, as to your reference to him being in it for the money, just what do you know about the man? He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law, where he was the first black ever elected President of the Harvard Law Review. Don't ya think that upon graduation he could have gone to any high powered firm in the nation for big bucks or clerked for anyone on the SCOTUS?

What did he do? read below, please. This guy is the goods, the real deal. A state sen calling the POTUS a liar would NOT play in Peoria, nor would it assist the rest of the Dem slate. Lighten up, ok??

Obama graduated from Columbia University with a degree in political science and a specialty in international relations. He worked as a community organizer in some of Chicago's toughest neighborhoods, helping church groups create job-training programs, reform area schools, and improve city services.

He went on to Harvard Law School, where he graduated magna cum laude and served as the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. After law school, Obama organized one of the largest voter registration drives in Chicago history to help Bill Clinton's election, and worked as a civil rights lawyer on cutting edge voting rights and employment discrimination cases in federal and state courts.

Currently a senior lecturer specializing in constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School, Obama has served on the boards of some of Chicago's leading foundations and chaired the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a $50 million philanthropic effort to reform the public schools.


http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&...
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. You decide...
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:07 PM by plastic_turkeys
STATE REP. OBAMA: What I think is that it was an ideologically driven war. I think that George Bush was sincere and is sincere about his desire to maintain a strong America, but I think there was a single-mindedness to this process that has led our country into a very difficult position. It's a consequence of that single-mindedness that we did not create the kind of international framework that would have allowed

success once we decided to go in. And I think that John Kerry is going to be establishing those relationships that allow us now, looking forward, to execute in Iraq and make sure that we are respected abroad and succeed in the difficult but now bipartisan process of making sure that we have a stable Iraqi government.

MR. RUSSERT: But you're not charging that President Bush sent men and women to die for political reasons?

STATE REP. OBAMA: No, I don't think that's the case. As I said, I think that this administration is sincere but I think it's misguided.

MR. RUSSERT: You also said this: "...I also know that Saddam possesses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

The nominee of your party, John Kerry, the nominee for vice president, John Edwards, all said he was an imminent threat. They voted to authorize George Bush to go to war. How could they have been so wrong and you so write as a state legislator in Illinois and they're on the Foreign Relations and Intelligence committees in Washington?

STATE REP. OBAMA: Well, I think they have access to information that I did not have. And what is absolutely clear is that John Kerry said, "If we go into war, let's make sure that we do it right. Let's make sure that our troops are supported. Let's make sure that we have the kind of coalition that's necessary to succeed." And the execution of what was a difficult choice to make was something that all of us have to be concerned about. And moving forward, the only way that we're going to be able to succeed is if, I think, we have an administration led by John Kerry that's going to allow us to consolidate

the relationships with our allies that bring about investment in Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT: But if you had been a senator at that time, you would have voted not to authorize President Bush to go to war?

STATE REP. OBAMA: I would have voted not to authorize the president given the facts as I saw them at that time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5488345/
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yup, I wanted to throw something when he said
they did NOT die because of the war being POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

GAWDDESSS, what in the world is it gonna take???

Thank you for posting this, although now I'm mad and sick all over again....
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
89. What was he supposed to say?
Dubya is a murderer, he planned 911, and eats babies for breakfast?

It is politics. He made it very clear that Bush is a fuck up. He's no Kucinich, but he sure as hell is along way from Zell and Lieberman.

Anyone who tells the entire TRUTH is muzzled immediately, if you haven't noticed. I would rather our dem leaders be safe and sound to make their subtle points another day.

If you are waiting for someone other than Kucinich to tell the truth about the sad state of our union; don't hold your breath. No use to get your blood pressure up; although I DO share your outrage.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
79. Hell yes!
Read this, IN CONTEXT! And tell me that this man is any kind of traitor or simple minded drone following a Republican pack!

This man has a sense of diplomacy, and a political savvy that will land him in the senate.

And once there he will, I have no doubt, be one of our strongest assets. If anyone wishes to throw that possibility away because of a knee jerk reaction to not hearing their words come out of another man's mouth...

Well, do I really have to point out the problem with that?
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diplomats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
108. I don't have any problem with what he said
But that's just my opinion.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
109. Emily Litella voice: "Nevermind!"
Guys he was just being diplomatic. Anyone can read that and see he doesn't support bush, he supports Kerry.

Thank goodness the transcript doesn't read as bad as I feared it would.

I didn't send an email.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. First...how many of you live in Illinois?
If not, back off.

Now, if one wants to pull votes, one does not jump into a senatorial race by calling the president a traitor.

It's politics. That's the game. We will never regain the house, senate, or presidency by alienating the fence votes with harsh rhetoric.

Obama is a good man. A smart man. He knows what he's doing.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The HELL I'll "back off"!
It doesn't matter the state I live in......... he will be voting on issues that affect ME!

Gawd, does this SHUT UP crap never end?

They go to lengths to alienate ME.

Kanary
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Yeah, a black man would never understand your plight.
A republican would be more apt to help you in your causes. :eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
90. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. For this year, I'll vote for Obama, although I will no longer donate
When he comes up for re-election, I'llcarefully look at what he's said and how he has voted, especially where the Iraq War is concerned.

If I see his future actions matching his current rhetoric, I'll vote for a Republican next time.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #93
106. I have NEVER voted for a republican and never will.
AFTER the election....every Democrat will come out and say BUSH LIED. Until we win..... I didn't know you lived in Chicago, Walt! :hi: For some reason, I thought you lived in New York.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #106
117. I will do more than vote Republican if we're still in Iraq in 4 years
I'll be campaigning for whomsoever gets the Republican nomination if we have not 100% pulled out by then.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #117
127. ???? Why?
Will the warmongering RWers get us out of Iraq any faster? I agree that we need to get the hell out of Iraq ASAP...but campaign for a republican? I'd rather slit my wrists. :( I think 4 years down the road will look much better....if Kerry wins. He's going to get the UN and NATO involved. We'll be outta there. ESPECIALLY if Wes Clark is our Secretary of State. ;)
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #127
134. It's my only choice to make a vote that counts
ABB was built on the premise that either the Democrat wins or the Republican wins. Ergo, if I cannot vote for the Democrat I must vote for the Republican.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #90
145. I'm with ya in_cog_ni_to
Check out my post 126 above, you're right on it.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. "Does this SHUT Up crap never end?" It's actually good advice.
I thought these Obama threads were a JOKE. Really. Lame attempt at sarcasm.

Sadly, some people here are giving a Cheney to the man who will be the only black Senator in the United States. So he didn't say exactly what you wanted him to say, exactly the way you wanted him to say it?

Well get your ass out there and run for something.

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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. *smootchies*
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
150. Yeah, it's all about you.
Haw haw haw.
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tcfrogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. I live in Chicago
And while his comments disturb me, I see him trying to reach out to the Repug voters who have no candidate.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. gawd, I feel sooooooooo sowwy for those repugs......
:eyes:
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tcfrogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I wasn't trying to elicit sympathy for them
Just trying pointing out that Obama could pull 70% of the vote if he reaches out on certain issues to make certain repugs find him acceptable.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. What about us DEMs who don't have "anyone" to vote for
because almost ALL our damned politicians are ALLERGIC TO THE TRUTH?

What the hell are we.......... chopped liver???

I'm soooo sick of all this!

:nuke:

Kanary
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. You said it, Kanary!
Right now we are completely unrepresented in what now amounts to a one party system
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
105. THanks....... and look what it gets me....... more ugly derision
and the loving advice to "adjust my meds"

I think I'll send all the DEM loyals a tea bag.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #105
148. at least your comments/thoughts
are not completely ignored...

I percieved the whole thing differently, tried to point out an alternative view - but in a way that was not derisive (except perhaps to say that the comparison to Miller was a bit hyperbolic given Miller's actions in the senate and elsewhere that goes beyond rhetoric)... and no one wants to discuss it - no one acknowledges there can be a different point of view - so the thread seems to have two primary themes...

One - Abandon Obama
Two - You folks are crazy... and no, you folks are crazy.

Any discussion of the abandon Obama theme... is ignored. :shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. It's the U.S. Senate, not the Illinois State Senate
What happens in Illinois for this senate seat affects the whole country. So don't tell me to back off.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. But he will be OUR senator, representing Illinois
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:17 PM by Susang
Or do you not understand that distinction?

Those of us here in Illinois who have worked hard to see him succeed, perhaps know him just a little better than you and realize that he is not a "traitor" or "a piece of shit" as has been stated. Perhaps you might want to read some of the information about him in the state forums before screaming like a pack of harpies because of one television interview.

This is seriously fucked up. :wtf:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. I live in Illinois, and USED to believe in Obama
but no longer...
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
66. If you're willing to vote Republican
As you stated in your earlier post, than you must not believe in much at all.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Not voting Repuke this year
can't say the same thing about any election after November 3, 2004, though.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Than why did you make this inflammatory statement?
"For the first time in my life, I will actually consider voting for Republicans. If Democrats who allegedly represent me continue to go along to get along, I vote Repuke."
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Oh for the love of taking it out of context
Quote the entire thing. I specified a date of November 3rd. The election is November 2nd. I vote a straight Democratic ticket on November 2nd, but it's the last time I do that if the Democrats continue this fucking bullshit.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #80
94. What's the difference?
So your going to be oh, so noble and deign to vote Democratic one more time, and then switch to "the dark side" directly afterwords? Will that help to assuage your guilt when the next Dubya gets elected (with your Republican help)? What good does it do anybody to get one idiot out of office if people like you plan on migrating to the party we just displaced?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. HUGE Difference
I'm going to watch the votes to see if they match the current rhetoric. If they do, then a Republican certainly won't be any worse and it would mean something could actually change, not to mention that I won't take this shit any longer.

ABB taught me I have exactly two choices. If I see Democrats acting like Republicans on the issues I care about, my only recourse is to vote Republican.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #99
119. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #119
122. You have two choices in each election
or so went the mantra of ABB.

Well, I'm convinced. So if the Democrat in office does the wrong thing, the only choice is to vote Republican.

Pretty simple.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #122
132. Go ahead. Vote Republican.
They can have you.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #132
136. We'll see what happens in the next four years
I may have no other choice.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #122
153. Oh here we go
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 04:21 PM by devrc243
you were so mad after Dean dropped out and now this :eyes:

God, what WILL make you happy? I've just now been able to enjoy your posts again and actually think you are extremely birght, but what a hot-head...geeze...

Go ahead...vote republican if you think it will cool your jets... :eyes:

geeze, my 6 year-old child acts more mature than this when they didn't get the "red" popsicle
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Don't tell me to call Obama a traitor...
Simply because he fails to engage in inflammatory rhetoric.

No candidate in this climate is going to get elected that way. It's a delicate wooing game.

The repugs can't use the words "mean spirited" or "hate speak" on him now. He's disarmed them there.

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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. I don't live in Georgia either
but I have plenty to say about Zell Miller.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
72. I agree with your political analysis about harsh rhetoric.
But I don't think we should back off. We've backed off enough.


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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
107. Back off, no.
Change tactics in moving forward, yes.

What I see from Obama is a well reasoned, well thought out response that states his case without allowing any conservative backlash. They can't throw out their stock dismissals (ala "mean spirited or "hate speak") and istead must deal with the content of his argument.

When forced into that position, they have nothing to stand on.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #107
114. You are exactly right.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. What the hell is wrong with you?
Calling one of the most liberal and honorable men I've ever seen run for office a traitor and a piece of shit?
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. you got it
The truth hurts, don't it?

When are people gonna wake up and realize that the reason F9/11 has made a hundred million dollars is because people are hungry for the truth!

WE WANT THE TRUTH.

We are not getting it from our media, our "leaders", not from anybody right now but from COMEDIANS.

Is asking for the truth too much to ask?

If you think it's too much to ask, maybe you should move.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. You don't know the truth about Obama
I think its amazing that you would throw away a man as talented as he is based on one diplomatically stated position on a television show during an election year.

Fine, go ahead. Get the torches, burn the witch, kill the monster. We all know how those movies end, don't we?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Look, it comes down to a desire for change
Obama has just proven he's going to go along to get along and no change will occur.

He'll get my vote. I'll keep his bumper sticker on my car and his sign in my yard.

Come November 3rd, I officially become part of the minute portion of this country who determine the outcome of elections. For the first time in my life, I will actually consider voting for Republicans. If Democrats who allegedly represent me continue to go along to get along, I vote Repuke.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. If Democrats don't change a thing
how the fuck are they different from the Republicans?
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. Well you know what you've just proven to me?
Your own words:

"For the first time in my life, I will actually consider voting for Republicans. If Democrats who allegedly represent me continue to go along to get along, I vote Repuke."

If you really meant this statement, then your posts about caring about the truth and change must be complete and utter bullshit.

You don't like ONE statement from the Democratic candidate and your all fired up and ready to vote Republican? Are you for real? And if this is true, why do you waste your time on DU?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
83. The way you quote, you could be one of the media!
"Come November 3rd, I officially become part of the minute portion of this country who determine the outcome of elections. For the first time in my life, I will actually consider voting for Republicans. If Democrats who allegedly represent me continue to go along to get along, I vote Repuke."

The election is November 2nd

:eyes:
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #83
112. The way you spin, you could be Bill O'Reilly!
My point has nothing to do with how you vote in any single election. My point is about idealogy. You claim to stand for certain things and yet you are willing to switch to a party that fights against most of those same things. :wtf:

You said that Obama didn't speak the truth and that because of that, you are disillusioned and will seriously consider voting Republican in the future. Since Republicans are known for being so truthful and straightforward no doubt. :eyes:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #112
123. After November 2nd, there is no room for party loyalty
If the Democrats do not do the right thing, I must vote against the Democrats. Since ABB has proven I only have a choice between Republicans and Democrats, in order to vote against the Democrats I must vote for the Republicans.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. It's par for the course
Didn't you get the memo... fail to engage in the right rhetoric, and you're a traitor to the cause. :eyes:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
91. Yes, because kissing up to Republicans has worked so effectively
this far.

:eyes:
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. Traitorous piece of sh-- ?
What a nice thing to say about a Democrat running for the Senate.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Yeah, like Zell Miller? Like Bayh and Lieberman?
Get off your high horse.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
95. Difference is this
Miller ... written a dem bashing book, is stumping with bush and headlining at the GOP convention.

Bayh... always a centrist, moved to the right after the 2000 election (we hoosiers suspect that his shift came after seeing that even a centrist senator would get trumped in a national election... b/c we believe his eye has always been on the presidency). He was one of three dems to appear at the Rose Garden speech which made all senate negotiations on amendments to the IWR fall apart. Until the very last cycle of votes (eg THIS YEAR) he has voted with bush and not bucked him very often. Again, here in Indiana we think this was intentional again... had to appear to be a sometimes party guy to get the $$$ for his reelection (to which he will waltz, btw).

Lieberman... same opportunistic Rose Garden Appearance (as opposed to simply voting for the IWR - which I hold against those that did including K/E; this worked to HELP bush); he also caved on numerous issues (including doing only very superficial "investigations" when he had the power to do so per Enron and the WH abuse of power/ex priv.); his overall blame on Gore's loss to Gore's progressivism and populism (making his complete botching of his initial front runner status in the primaries... a hilarious bit of poetic justice.)

I really do not see - the careful wording in reaction to an attempt by Russert to paint him into a Rovian corner on the eve of the Dem Convention - as equivalent of the pattern of BEHAVIOR of the three mentnioned above. Heck Obama goes on to say that he would have voted AGAINST the IWR (which is different than what K/E did... indicating that he isn't just taking a party line that gives cover to all democrats.) Not going to the point to blindly defend OBama - but from what I have read and heard there is NOT the long standing trackrecord of GOPLITE behavior to paint him with the Miller/Bayh/Lieberman brush.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. My wife and I were going to a $250/person birthday party for him
next month.

I think not, now.

No more money for Obama's campaign fom me.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. please read my take on this in the post below
gives a slightly different read on the incident.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I stand by my position
No more money from me for any Democrat.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. ya lost me (or I missed a discussion)
how did Obama's statements to Russert - morph into "any Democrat"... think I missed something that isn't on this particular thread.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Obama was the LAST Democrat seeking office that I actually
BELIEVED IN!

I no longer believe in him.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
64. You're gonna let one comment
frame your whole opinion of him. I remember you were one of the extremely excited ones that he was the keynote speaker. If you are gonna change on dime for him like that--with no chance for a response--then maybe you're not that serious.

I heard what he said too this am and I didn't take that way. He DID say he would NOT have voted to go to war either... I say wait for some clarity before condemming the man
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. Oh yes, this comment is just too important
and has framed my entire opinion of him.

Yet another pink tutu Democrat.

I'm sick of pink tutus.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. er... ya go after him - when he says he would have voted against the IWR
we don't need senators who would buck bushco - and even the dlc conventional wisdom at the time which suggested it would be political suicide to vote against the IWR.

I would have liked to have seen stronger language in his responses - however it reads as if Russert is trying to get him into a Rove constructed corner. Given that context - am I angry that he didn't let Rove win?

Besides I read some real dangling questions in this response...

the issue of blind ideology from bush - allowing for dangerous policy...

the issue of "good intentions" ... rather than "lies" leaves dangling... then WHY did we go to war - it was in the reports from the CIA that the "WMD" intel wasn't good intel... it was in the reports that there was no working alqeada / saddam link... so why did we go? (again blind ideology - and perhaps if he "wasn't lying" either STUPIDITY that leads to not comprehending the intelligence reports OR lack of effort put into actually reading the reports) ALL of those answers that are the alternative explanations to why bush could have made these claims but not necessarily be "lying" - lead to a BIG PICTURE of MASSINCOMPETENCE.

Sorry, but with most of the public - there is not yet a readiness to view the administration as overtly malfeasant (sp)... BUT there does appear to be a growing sentiment and acceptance per the issue of massincompetence. Play into that sentiment - swing more votes... and as folks are there - then they get to the point where they can process (and even accept) the malfeasant explanation. Many of us have watched/spoken with folks who have to go through these progressions before being able to accept how evil this current admin really is.

Thus - I don't read the statements as traitorous - as some of you perhaps do. Vive le difference

(Please note I have always been a huge anti iraq war person, and about the last person to give a pass on "excusing"...)
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. "not yet a readiness to view the administration as overtly malfeasant"
And why do you think that is?

Because the only leaders the people have are LIARS and CRIMINALS.

The MEDIA HAS DROPPED THE BALL. We need real leaders who will call a spade a spade!

Good God, how much more does Bushco have to do before people start pointing fingers and saying "There go some really bad people!"?

????

Does George Bush have to be fucking a ten year old boy up the ass HIMSELF on the 50 yard line of the superbowl?

COME ON!!!
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
63. I agree with your frustration
it drives me nuts as well. But there we are - and we have to figure out how to effectively move people away from cheering him on and keeping him on that yardline.

For some folks the truth will move them (and FH911) is a great messenger.

For others... there is a powerful cognitive dissonance that keeps them from being able to "see" because the truth contradicts their life-long held beliefs about our Country, about the nature of democracy, and about the (I know it sounds naive) "inherent goodness" of those who lead us (as in - they know more than we do... and they would of course act in our best interests). For these folks (and there are many, many of them).... they will move more easily into acceptance of GROSS INCOMPENTENCE than into accepting gross malfeasance. That is what they did about the first bush ... The thing is this bunch is much worse than those surrounding the first bush - so the job is bigger than getting them out of office... I am guessing that you would agree with me - that the job is about both getting the bushies out of office (and dominating congress)... AND about demasking the bunch to the greater public so that they don't just turn around and crawl back into power in the near future. To accomplish that we have to get a great proportion of our population through the mindnumbing backflips they do/use to keep that cognitive dissonance away. Hence - this is why the MASS incompentence angle is a great one... ONCE THERE - once fully embracing that view a) they won't vote for bushco... but BIGGER... b) they can get to the point of asking/thinking about WHY that massincompentence came to be ... which leads into the malfeasance explanation.

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Lori Price CLG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
44. I wish Miller, LieberBush, Obama would just switch parties...
and I would have a lot more respect for them.

Obama's pro-Bush comments: :puke:

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
55. Hold up here. Don't you see what the Media is doing?
They are trying like crazy to find a Democrat to say that Bush is a liar. Other than Robert Byrd, nobody's taken the bait. And bait it is. The media has been trying to do this for months. This is the wedge issue that Karl Rove wants! No matter that the Dark Side has called Bill Clinton a liar for 12 years -- there is a double standard, my friends.

First and foremost, remember this ... WE HAVE TO WIN THIS ELECTION and we have to avoid stepping in the traps Rove has set for us.

I'm sure that every Democrat speaking on any political program is advised NOT to call Bush a liar.

We have to leave it to the commentators and radio people like Randi and Mike to call Bush what he is ... a lying scumbug. But our national leaders can not do this.

This is politics people. This ain't church.
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Kipepeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #55
155. Why aren't we all calling him a Liar?
That's what he is. He lied about weapons of mass destruction. He lied to take us into war. Repukes had no problem calling Clinton a liar about his *personal* life. I think Bush Lying about reasons for a war is public enough to call him out for it. It's the most egregious lie a President can tell.

If they are trying to find just one Dem. to call Bush a Liar, what would happen if all the Dems started calling him out for being a liar?

As for the original topic I this thread, I am glad that I read the interview in context, because Obama still said he would have voted against IWR, which gets my applause. He was being diplomatic. I wish he could have said "Yes, Bush lied," but I'm not going to jump all over him for not doing so. None of the Dems are doing that.

And I think they *all* should be.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
56. Last week - savior of the party
This week - traitor to the cause.

Alrighty then.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. I never considered him a "savior", nor do I now consider him a
"traitor".

I used to believe he was the "real deal" and now I know he's just another polticial whore who will go along with whatever the status quo is.

I am disappointed, and will no longer consider donating.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. Aren't we something?
People, adjust your meds!
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
85. And we thank you for the snide references to mental illness
the repugs have taught that technique VERY WELL
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RoBear Donating Member (781 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
96. I agree.
My God, the hysteria! I haven't seen this much hate on this site EVER. I always thought the only people capable of such venom were Freepers and Coulter and her ilk. Jeez, it was one fairly conciliatory remark, and you're blowing it all out of proportion. I applaud the man for not playing into the rw's hands and trashing Bush. I'm outa here. Get a life.
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JPJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. Wait for the transcript n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
61. Dems need to learn to USE language..
All he needed to say is.. "I'd like to believe that the president has good intentions and did not lie about the wmds"..

If he was pressed, he would just repeat it and repeat it, until the "prompter-reader" gave up and moved on...

THAT's how it's done..
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. THANK-YOU
WELL SAID and thanks for the reason of sanity :) Everybody is so quick to jump ship these days at the slightest thing.... :eyes:
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
77. And Next Week, He'll Give a Great Speech at the DNC
and it's back to being a hero.

Just another day on the DU tilt-a-whirl.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. I didn't see it so I can't comment
I was under the impression he was more like Dean though.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:07 PM
Original message
THAT is why I'm bookmarking this thread!
Unity blows with the wind around this place.
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. I'm one of the folks who hadn't seen him speak yet, and, well...
my reaction while listening to that interview progressed from WTF? to OH YUCK! in short order. Frankly I'm tired of people trying to convince me it's ok to temper your convictions to win. The minute you do, you lose.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #82
92. It's not a matter of tempering convictions..
It's a matter of tempering the language used to express them.

Heated arguments are one thing. A political campaign is another. But there's one rule I apply to both...

The first one to say "fuck you" has lost.

Obama is being cool headed about this. That, to me, is a true sign of strength.
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #92
118. Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of potential in this guy
but for those of us who believe the war is a crime built on lies, perpetrated by men who knowingly lied for politics and profit, Obama's statements are totally unacceptable. Especially, in light of the fact that they contradict his earlier views. There's no two ways about it, that was some shameless ass sucking on MTP.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. I completely agree with you in theory.
In political practice, however, he can't possibly talk the way we talk on this board.

Don't mistake that for weakness or placing lips on Bush's pimply butt. It's savvy and intelligence. You can't attack this with a sledge hammer. Those who try are dismissed out of hand.

He's finessing it, which is why I have so much faith in him.
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #125
138. Maybe so
I know that's how the game is played, and obviously Obama's "got game", but it's donning on me that being a good politician is, ultimately, more the problem than the solution.
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #138
149. Being a good politician is about getting elected.
The real work for change can only happen after that.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
87. Here is my email....
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 03:42 PM by dennis4868
Mr. Obama:

I was very disappointed with your appearances on Meet the Press and Late Edition today. On those shows you stated that, "Bush did not lie" about the reason we need to go to war in Iraq and that Bush is "sincere, with good intentions."

It is quite obvious that you are either not following this issue at all or you are scared to tell the truth for your own political gain. Congratulations....you seem to be another spineless democrat.

By the way, the following was told to us by George Bush in the run-up to the war that was not supported by any National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) and was not supported by any expert or scientist in or outside the government:

1. Massive stockpiles of Biological weapons in Iraq

2. Iraq's nuclear weapons program is reconstituted and will have a nuclear weapon soon

3. Iraq HAS unmanned aerial vehicles that could carry WMD to the USA

4. Mushroom cloud

5. Aluminum tubes

6. Saddam is connected to 911/al qaeda

7. Saddam will give WMD to terrorist.

If Bush was not lying as you say he wasn't, why would he and his White House tell the people of this country all of the above statements which are not supported by the facts?

Of course Bush lied/exaggerated...there is no questions about that. Many on the senate intelligence committee have said that Bush/Cheney pressured CIA officers to give them what they wanted.

In any event, as screwed up as the NIE was before the war, Bush and his thugs went above and beyond the NIE to get us into an illegal war causing almost 1000 soldiers to die and thousands of innocent Iraqis to die.

Of course Bush lied and I think you know that. The greatest politicians of this country's history speak the truth no matter what the consequences are. You are obviously not one of them

Shame on you!

Remember when John Kerry said, "How do you ask the last man to die for a mistake." Gosh, that is so true now my friend.

Thanks

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joanski01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
88. I saw Obama today on MTP,
and I thought he was excellent. I certainly didn't take the offense that some of you did. I thought he was very liberal. As a matter of fact, I said to myself -- there is the first black President.

You certainly couldn't expect Obama to say that bush* was a liar and a piece of shit on national TV. Can you imagine the smearing he would get. Good grief!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #88
100. personally I see a bright future for Mr. Obama in our party
and the party leaders see this. The man even said he would have voted against the war resolution, I can understand the anger if he said, "we must stand by the president's decision to go to war" but he didnt say that.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #88
101. By not admitting that Bush is a liar
Barack Obama became a liar.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #88
103. Same here.
I thought he came across very well.
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Berserker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #88
124. Well it's worked before
Get elected as a Democrat and switch to a repuke....Norm Coleman
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
102. Ok when the HELL did this happen?
I don't check the internet for two days and we go from he's the future of the party to supporting bush????? Has he started a recreational drug habit???
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #102
115. Replying to my own post
Nevermind! Read the transcripts of his comments above and I am not disturbed by them. He is being diplomatic, he is trying to win votes, fine by me.

I didn't send an email. I am not convinced in the LEAST he is another Zell. He came out in support of Kerry NOT bush.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #115
131. Ah, YES! ANOTHER voice of reason!
:hug:
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
104. I'm convinced now...
that some of the posts I'm reading about these Obama comments are the work of elves working from the basement of RNC headquarters. I CANNOT believe that people are legitimately ready to crucify this guy based on his ability to be diplomatic in a television interview and not fall for RW bait. To put him in league w/ the Zell Millers and Lieberman's of the world based on a couple of cautiously worded statements when we all know what a double-standard there is for Dems vs. Repugs in the media is just stupid, knee-jerkism and must surely be disingenuous stirring of the pot by either undercover freepers or naderites seeking the destruction of the Dem party. IT IS GROSS, DISTORTED OVER-REACTION. And most of you probably haven't even seen the interviews or read the transcripts in question. Chill the F**K out!!!
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #104
113. I agree with you. WE NEED TO WIN THIS ELECTION. That is
the only hope we have for A FUTURE... not future... A FUTURE. Even if it grates you to hear something like what he said, this is what needs to be done to WIN.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #113
120. The voice of reason.
:hug:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #113
128. Forgive them come November 2nd, but NEVER FORGET IT!
And hold their feet to the fire.

No more straight Democratic tickets. If we're still in Iraq in four years, I have to vote for the Republicans.

They have four years to pull us out of the quagmire. If not, I'll vote for the other party who may get us out.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #104
116. I wish you were right, jg82567....but, these are longtime DUers.
Sad. Very sad.
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RoBear Donating Member (781 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #104
121. Amen to that!
nt
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #104
140. 60 posts and already making sense?
Slow down! You'll hurt yourself... :evilgrin:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
126. You people can't even make it out of the house on a Sunday afternoon...
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 04:05 PM by LoZoccolo
...which is why you people are so dependant on other people to say stuff for you, which is why your head explodes when someone doesn't say what you wanna say the way you wanna say it. Someone on this thread said they should have said something slightly different that could have been a coded way of agreeing with them and I'm like who cares? If it's that subtle or whatever, drop it. I feel no need for us to coddle this high-maintenance segment of the vote.

And this, my friends, is why you don't get your issues listened to. It is much easier to speak to the center, a people that is perhaps open to sober reason and rhetoric, than a people that starts banging their head against the wall if you don't stroke them off.

This is stupid. Obama is probably the most liberal candidate and because he doesn't think that as a politician (rather than a crank-ass internet whiner) that he has the right to use the word "lie" or "liar" yet - even if he agrees with you about the fucking war - or to say that George W. Bush's intentions weren't pure comic-book villian evil for no reason, he's a "traitor".

People, get your own nuts and you won't have to swing from someone else's.
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #126
139. Right On!
I agree wholeheartedly! :yourock:
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
130. Traitorous piece of shit??????
I've been reading about how great he is here for weeks and weeks. This is the first time I've seen him. He was very impressive, regardless of whether I buy that Bush has any good intentions at all. But to call him a traitorous piece of shit for that is about the same as everything that the administration did to the people that dared to disagree with them. This is why the moderate way tends to win in a level playing field, which we haven't had lately. Zealots, be they on the right or left tend to have a despotic streak.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
133. You all need to get a grip!
What did you expect him to say?
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
135. This is a disappointing thread.
I can't believe you called Obama "a traitorous piece of shit."

Please tell us what YOU'VE done for us lately, and it BETTER BE GOOD.

This thread is truly sickening.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

He SAID that Bush shouldn't have gone to war.

He CAN'T PROVE that Bush lied.

Do you people ever THINK?

Rove would LOVE it if Obama threw his career away, and hurt Kerry's chances as well.

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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #135
142. Hear hear.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
137. Did Any of You Read Anything on His Website....
in your haste to find his email and condemn him for a measured response to a baited question by press-whore Tim Russert? The man graduated magna cum laude from Harward Law School, he's not stupid.

Check out his listed endorsements. Why there's Howard Dean's name? And here I thought Howard represented the "Democratic Wing" of the Democratic Party. (BTW - Michael Jordan endorsed him too)

http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&...

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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
141. Tell him he is a traitor?
I'm sorry, but if you send him an email saying he is a traitor I doubt that he will pay much attention to you.

Why not trying to tell him you disagree with him and why. You might get your point across a little better.

I haven't had a chance to see or hear what he said yet myself, but it sounds like you just want to slam him without really getting your opinion across.

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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
143. God, this has gotten out of control
the guy refuses to call Bush a traitorous scumbag and now you all want his head on a pike. His words, to me, were remincient of the late great Senator Paul Simon, also from Illinois, who believed that your opponent was best bested in a comptetition of ideas, but with a mutual respect. And we cry foul when all those damned fundies try to degrade our political processes, into absolutes, but what are we doing here but degrading our political discourse into a set of ideological absolutes? When a good man like Barack Obama puts up a semblence of bi-partisanship, all of a sudden he's a traitor douchebag... it boggles the mind.

This proves to me that NOBODY will ever be good enough for some here. Nobody. Ideological puritians are just as bad as religious puritians, they're two sides of the same coin, two flavors of the same nasty rotten egg.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. HEAR! HEAR! This thread is pure bullshit! n/t
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #143
154. Ive heard Pelosi called bush-lite in the past
Yet she has one of the most liberal records in the house.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
144. BARAK OBAMA SAID HE WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR THE IWR! n/t
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
147. some people just can't be happy
He's a good democrat and he'll make a good senator
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
151. I've never seen so many alarmist people
that are willing to cut their noses off in spite of their face.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
152. Quick everybody, form a circle and load your guns.....
Its time for another Democratic party firing squad.

I refuse to let a few misguided political purists ruin my mood on the eve of the Democratic National Convention. I am SOOOOOO sorry
Mr Obama did not live up to your ideals and expectations and I'm sure he will be too. His words were imperfect, and for that he should be condemned to the deepest levels of Hell, forever, in spite of his career achievements and potential.

While we sling shit at each other over Barack Obama's words, people die in Iraq, medical prices spiral upwards, insurance coverage goes down, jobs are our biggest exports and the country is bankrupt. This thread is like middle school only sadder.

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