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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:27 AM
Original message
Hubby is sitting on fence
One day he's voting for Kerry, another day for Nader. He's disappointed that Kerry isn't reaching out more to Naderites. He saw something in reference to the convention speech that makes him think that Kerry will come off mealy mouthed. How many more are out there like him? What to do? Divorce isn't an option; we've already done that.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. May I be blunt?
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 10:31 AM by Catch22Dem
I can't respect Naderites. I can't respect anyone who puts their personal principles ahead of the good of the rest of the country, and that's exactly what they're doing. I certainly appreciate principle, but not to the point of being a bush enabler.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Tell Him HE's Coming Across as Mealy Mouthed n/t
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Have him read "Worse than Watergate", by John Dean.
The book is true and scary. all votes should be concentrated to get B*sh out of office before he takes over the courts too. if your husband wants to risk losing democracy in this country, he can vote for Ralph. Its too important to screw around with Ralph. anyway, he has lost his mind. It's all about him now, where did the old Ralph go?
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. dupe
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 10:35 AM by wildeyed
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. Get out and register new dems.
I don't worry so much about arguing with fence sitters anymore. I still try to sway them, but if they don't agree with me, I think, no worries, I registered 100 new dems this weekend, you're not so important......
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. I thought you meant the Kerry/Bush fence....
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 10:38 AM by bullimiami
so I was going to tell you hes a goner. :)

I agree with him on the issues. Kerry is not my ideal either but in our system the winner takes all and we only have 2 choices. Nader can not win.

I would tell him we need to get Bush out first and then we can continue the struggle from a more reasonable position.



A walk around the world starts with a first step. If Bush gets in again well be walking backwards for 4 more years.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Excellent post. Cogent, thoughtful and intelligent. Read it Ralph! n/t
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Northwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. The only "reaching out" to be done with Naderoids
Is to reach out and smack them upside the head. Naderoids are 100% Bush supporters. No argument permissable or possible.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. Violence and a closed mind
what a winning combination. Why aren't you concerned with the up to 50% of blue collar dems who voted for Bushwa in rust belt states in 2000? You lost 8 million votes there overall in the shift of the reagan Dems. Does that not concern you as much as a few folks who might vote for Ralph? The Dem party is in decline-look it up...In many of the swing states you are outnumbered by registered Independents. The good news is that the repugs are even further behind the dems in registrations in those states.

To the original question-it is your husband's decision, and he is the one who will have to live with himself no matter which way he votes. Make suggestions, give considered thoughts and be understanding and respect his beliefs.
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Northwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. A Green is calling someone close minded?
Not THAT is a case of the pot calling the kettle.

And if you want violence, try the violence that Green's perpetrated against the service people of this country and thousands of innocent middle-easterners by your disgusting support of Bush in 2000.

Green or Naderoid = Bush Lover. Period.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Really?
The Greens never supported Bush in 2000 or any other year. The fact that you blame someone else for your own party's errors is pathetic.

Read the Green literature, and learn something of value. You blame Nader for the loss of Tenn or Ark? Lost the home states of Gore and Clinton and you blame Nader?

Get real.

The Greens were protesting the war when it first was raised as an issue. Look at your DLC positions.

Get real.
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Northwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. My party errors? What Party would that be?
I am a registered independant.

The Greens helped Bush steal the elction. The Greens are Bush lovers.

I don't blame Nader himself, I blame people like you. Bush lovers and GOP enablers.

The GOP literature claims they are "compassionate conservatives". Literature means jack shit.

The Greens and Naderoids are nothing but dirty GOP enablers. If you vote Green or Nader, you are exactly the same as every right-wing fucktard racist who pulled the lever for Bush.

Green or Naderoid = Bush lover. Period.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. What party?
Given the way you present your arguments, I thought you might be a stealth repug.
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
48. If you are a Green
Why would you not be supportive of David Cobb, the Green party candidate?

Ralph will not hurt the chimp of Kerry as much as he will hurt the Green party by siphoning votes from them to himself.

He is not interested in the Green Party's success. He is interested in himself.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Support Cobb
I live in a swing state. I came here as much to learn more about Kerry and the DP platform as anything else.

I am very concerned about the Green's future, given the stance of Cobb and the actions of Nader, but the removal of Bushwa is too important, so some things sit on the back burner at least for a while.

I will learn what I can of Kerry and Cobb (I already have a good sense of La Marche) and vote on that basis.

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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Would he like to meet my
two sons who will be 17 in the next few months? They are just regular boys who like to watch movies and hang out. Would he worry about these young men's future? I sure as hell am. If you know one boy right now and watch anything about Iraq you have to know that giving a vote to Nader won't help them a damn bit.

While they are over there, they can cut your lawn. Ha.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
9. Which are the specific issues most important to him?
First, I'd make sure he's seen the positions on those issues at Kerry's website and in the party platform, so that he knows where Democrats stand and what they propose.

Second, I'd gently remind him what's happened with the issues under the Bush regime and where they'd go if given a second term.

Third, measure the difference between Kerry's positions and Nader's (go to Nader's website), to pin down what the gap is about.

Fourth, ask what the chance is that Nader will enact any of his "proposals" (zero). Even if the world turned upside down and he were elected, would they get through Congress, as things are?

Fifth, bribery usually works (kidding). My husband's a raging flaming liberal who reads Bartcop and Smirking Chimp daily, and I don't know how I'd deal if he weren't!
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Northwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. And on a lighter note...
A cursory view of the General Discussion thread list makes it look like your tread is titled, "My husband is sitting on my face." Made me do a bit of a double take.

:silly:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. nader simply is not someone of honor
and he has proven this himself in the last 4 years. so for naderites to want to make me respect him in a way i just will not, like i will not say bush is a good christian straight shootin son of a gun like the repugs and media oh so bad want me too

really, with all nader has done in 6 months, that are visible to the eye, why in any rationality wuld kerry be patting the dude on the back

is a cheney if i have ever seen one

so i say the silliness of the naderites to be asking
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. Why would Kerry reach out to Naderites?
The republicans are funding him and they are out getting names so he can get on the state ballots. AND, Nader is ACCEPTING the republican money and help! Why would Kerry reach out to people who are trying to get Bush elected?
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's what "Free" means. Help make this truly a free country.
I respect anyone's heartfelt and considered opinion. Even if I strongly disagree. Debating the merits of voting one way or another is one thing...it is another, entirely, to try and manipulate a voter to fall in line.

Respect rights, and fight to keep them.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Respect, respchect
She should withhold sex until he agrees to vote for Kerry!

:evilgrin: ;)

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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I respect your right
to have no self respect.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Ummmm, it was a joke.
Get it? (Thus the winking smilie.) Jeez.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. So was my response
didn't realize a road map was necessary.

:')
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. Okay. Fair enough.
Sometimes I'm dense. Draw me a picture next time! :hi:
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. I have told him, told him, told him
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 10:50 AM by luaneryder
that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush, plain and simple. I'll take all of your suggestions and put them to him the next time we speak (he lives in FL, I live in TN). Thanks for the constructive advice.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. not even a vote for nader is vote for bush anymore
more to, hey, this man, from what i have learned is not very honorable in business, and he hasnt been in this campaign

the worst for me in nader, he is saying people wake up, dont let these bastards lie to you

but you dumb shits............

i am going to lie my ass off and f* you all so bend over, cause i know how stupid you are and will blindly follow me

i am not even seeing this about the election anymore, i am so totally saying, hey third party, you havent even created yourself yet, dont let this be the first nail in who you are. at least stand to the very first assault on you expectations of third party

we need the party. nader has to be rejected with a resounding, f* all we are tired of this shit and demand more. and find someone who can deliver, but it is not nader
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soggy Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. FLORIDA???
OMG, if Florida comes down like it did 4 years ago, and people like your husband piss away their crucial vote... well, I just don't know how he could sleep at night.

You should ask him... "Who do you think dubya wants you to vote for?"
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. Do WHATEVER it takes to get him to do the right thing.

America is Fucked if Shrub keeps Power.

More War More Death More Pain More Misery that's what's coming if this POS stays.

YOU CAN DO IT !!!!
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midwayer Donating Member (719 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. This isn't enough reason for him to change his mind?
GOP donors funding Nader
Bush supporters give independent's bid a financial lift

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07...

Whalen said the Republican National Committee or the Bush-Cheney campaign can't technically condone such donations, but "you absolutely want your activists to get out there and help Ralph run'' because of the effects he had on the 2000 election.

"Do the math,'' Whalen said.

Nader, who has decried the influence of corporations in the political arena, also has received more than $20,000 in "bundled'' contributions since March from GOP fund-raisers, according to the Federal Elections Commission documents that tally donations through May 31.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kerry's whole life record is one that should thrill REAL progressives.
He has investigated and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history. No Naderite can refute that. In fact, Nader helped Kerry on IranContra when few Dem lawmakers wanted him to continue his efforts.

Kerry has an over 30 year long commitment and record for environmental causes. He has one of the best records of any lawmaker on environmental issues. No Naderite can refute that.

Kerry led the way on legislation friendly to gays and was the first to push for gays to serve openly in the military. No Naderite can refute that.

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GodHelpUsAll2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. My 2 cents
Do the best you can with him, that's all you can do. I have a similar problem and I just talk and try and convince the best I can. What I won't do however, is get ugly and hateful and start name calling and acting as if I am holier than thou. Because I realize that this IS still a free country and we are all free to choose who we want to vote for. Even if I think it is a grave mistake. Whenever one of my very republican co workers of family members starts trash talking because I am a democrat I respond with "Isn't it beautiful thing that we live in America where we are ALL free to choose". It is frustrating yes, but when we stoop to being hateful about it and name calling then guess what? We have just become EXACTLY like the side we are trying to defeat. Everyone screams in outrage over the republican/right wings behavior yet it seems that everyone is more than willing to behave just like them when it suits their purpose. Frankly, I am very very disappointed about that. I would prefer people to view me as a level headed and sensable person and not a hot head idiot that spews venom in kindergarten tantrums because everyone doesn't see it my way.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. my husband repug, not voting bush
and i think trying to come to peace with kerry. i think he has seen enough lies about kerry that he is starting to check it out, before he just accepts. has had a lot of years of seeing kerry as enemy.

he is going to have a lot of things to watch next four months, i have faith, he is just that good, and fair. why i married him. and he liked edwards during primary
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. How would he even have "a lot of years" to even be AWARE of
who Kerry is unless you are in MA or New England? Unless he had a "lot of years" just seeing all Democrats as the enemy...
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Carolinian Donating Member (861 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. Let your husband make up his own mind. My husband is a Republican
who is so sweet that he actually worked a Democratic rally with me. (BTW, he doesn't trust Bush and will vote for K/E this time around.) We both explored the candidates & issues through our individual avenues and both concluded that we like the leadership offered by the K/E ticket best. Forcing your point of view on your husband will only push him further away. Let him find his own way.
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Him and 45,000 Michigan REPUBLICANS agree
Nader got 4500 Naderite votes to get on the ballot in Michigan, so the GOP jumped in and provided him with 45,000--more than enough to push him over the 30,000 threshold he needed.

That would be THE REPUBLICANS. Is that who your husband thinks he's voting for? Cause that's who he's voting for.

Hello?
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ask him, if deep down in his heart he truly believes that Nader can
win this election? Then ask him if by voting for Nader who does this help? Then ask him if he would prefer four more years of Bush, or to give someone else a chance, that actually could beat Bush? Or something to that effect, I think you get my drift.




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umass1993 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm voting for Nader
I'm in Massachusetts. I guess I have the privilege of voting my conscience.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Strength of your convictions
Glad to see you stick with it. Amazing isn't it, how these rumors of repug help for Ralph has served two repug causes. 1) They have made any alliance between Greens, Independents and Dems difficult as opinions against Ralph are so strong. (springing, I suspect , from 2000, wrongly). The Dems have managed to insult enough folks who MIGHT have otherwise considered their candidate into strengthening their resolve to stand by the principles that brought them to their positions in the first place. and 2) this whole process has served to cripple anything Nader might do in the future wherein he fights for consumers and the little guys like me.
The repugs have a win win and the Dems who hate Ralph don't even see it.
Sad. Very sad.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. "Glad to see you stick with it???"
Who do you want to win the election? BUSH???

I don't agree with anything you are saying here but welcome to DU.
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Green Lantern Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Convictions
Thank you for the welcome. Please re-read my post. It speaks of an effort by the repugs to divide the progressive/liberal portion of the spectrum by using Mader as an issue, and it addresses the idea that it also weakens Nader in his ability to intervene on behalf of the consumer against the corporations and our stolen gov't. as he has done so often in the past.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
46. There is no such thing as a "safe state."
A vote for Nader in Massachusetts or in ANY state is a wasted vote. Period.

Nader is a messianic scam artist working for the alien lizards.

Welcome to DU
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. Sigh
I'm about 90% sure my husband is going to vote and he's going to vote Kerry, but he fell HARD for Dean and took longer than most to get over the disappointment of Dean losing the nom. I don't think he'll ever get over it, honestly. I know that sounds crazy and a bit melodramatic and he is neither, he just really took it to heart. We met Dean in person and my husband was SO apolitical before bush came on the scene and when my husband devotes himself to someone or something, it's 110% devotion, so it was very hard for him.

I was always ABB so I knew if it wasn't Dean, I'd get behind whomever it was (and I prayed really hard it wasn't Lieberman!).

I feel ya. Just make sure on Election Day, he goes Kerry, especially if you are in a swing state. I promised my husband certain things which cannot be typed here in exchange for his vote for Kerry. Now THAT'S devotion to getting the guy elected, isn't it???

LOL! I'm not kidding, either!
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
36. I can recommend a good divorce lawyer
Barring that, withhold sex till he comes around.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. No no no
don't go negative, PROMISE him really FUN stuff if he'll only vote for Kerry! Put it in writing if you have to, the whole agreement. Both parties sign it. That kinky thing he's always wanted to do? Now's the TIME! But ONLY after he votes Kerry!

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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. have to agree with that
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. If all else fails
I will take your suggestion under advisement. But, even for John Kerry I must draw the line at dressing as a French Main or Little Bo Peep ;-)
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
39. Kerry has met with Nader
And Nader gave praise to Kerry.
Please tell your husband to put the country first and send W back to Texas where he belongs. We cannot win without the Naderites.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
40. Tell him the time to agitate is January 2005.
A Kerry administration will bring in thousands of political appointees. Those people will all have a responsibility, and it will be in their best interests, to give an ear to the left.

Petitioning your government for change will be both fun and useful, but the followers of Dean and Nader will have absolutely no impact on government should Bush win the election.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
41. Fuck 'em
if he doesn't get it by now...
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Now now...let's keep sex outta it!
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
42. Is he a Star Trek fan?
Quote him Spock:

The needs of the many outway the needs of the few.
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
49. His main concern seems to be the
establishment of a alternate strong, viable party. He thinks that the runup to a presidential election is the only time a concentrated effort is made to do this and his vote, although it would be for Nader, is his way of protesting the hold of the two party system. I have suggested that he put full effort to making that his reality after getting Kerry into office. I'm making inroads at this time and he'll be following the convention this week and I've printed out the Dem platform for him to peruse.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
52. Tell him to hang out with Republicans
I always like Kerry more after hanging out with Republican friends.

I always like Kerry less after hanging out with Democratic friends.
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