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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:35 AM
Original message
How will Religion Affect your Vote?
will you vote on certain religious principles, like millions of americans do? or will you vote to counteract the heavy influence of religion in bush's policies? will you vote against kerry because you are a staunch catholic, or will you vote for bush because he's a good cristian man? millions will.

when you vote, is it even a factor at all?
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ronabop Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. The less religious. the better.
I'm a democrat.

I believe domocracy outranks any zealot's ideas about god.

-Bop
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. me too
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes it will
I always vote anti-religion. Unfortunately for me, there usually aren't any viable non-religious candidates.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. I am really, really tired
of religion being such an issue in politics. Religion and spirituality is private a matter and has no business in public life.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. it won't effect my vote
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 07:06 AM by G_j
though Bush's "religious" statements just add to his negatives.

Kerry has been quoting the bible also BTW. It's entirely possible that there are ppl who think Kerry is a "good Christian". There also are many Christians who are very offended by Bush's posturing.

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I agree
I know of several Christians who have voiced extreme displeasure in Bush, some even going to the extreme of calling him the anti-Christ. He sure doesn't have all the Christian vote locked up.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. BUSH A GOOD CHRISTIAN???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Baloney!
x(
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Some people stupidly believe he is a good Christian.
Unfortunately, they don't bother to think. :-(

* is far more akin to the anti-Christ.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. How I do agree with you!
Sadly, I agree with you 100%... and as the anti-Christ he is also very anti-people. Yesterday I was watching the CAPITAL GANG on CNN with Bob Novak, Margaret Carlson, (I forget the name of that other Republican woman), Mark Shields and Judy Woodruff's husband (whose name also escapes me right now).

I thought about Kerry and about his people-ways, and about his way for democracy in opening the convention floor to the likes of Novak, Carlson and the Republican woman whose name I still cannot remember.

Then I thought about Bush and about what kind of hell, democrats who dared to speak bad about Bush from the Republican Convention floor would have to pay...(or, they don't have to speak bad about Bush from the Republican convention floor to have hell to pay... all anyone has to do is dissent from the Bush ways to have hell to pay directly by the Bush minions or his no-thought, no insight followers.)

Democrats in the Bush Convention floor would not be received with open arms, their dissent would be squashed immediately--with the same impetus that Bob Novak was trying to squash any Kerry momentum yesterday from the floor of the Democratic Convention site...

It is just such a contrast in light and dark so great .. and sadly, as Bishop Bruce J. Simpson,OSJB, says, even the Pope is abusing the Eucharist by pressuring his Bishops to pressure their flock to seat GWB in the oval office for another 4 more years.

We are headed for a very dark period in history. GWB is the anti-Christ, the anti-people,and the pied-piper, all wrapped in one, leading us to darkness...and sadly the POPE is marching right behind him.

:-(
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm voting partially based on my religion. . .
. . . because people like Bush and Ashcroft are doing all they can to prevent me from practicing it.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. This may sound odd
by my spiritual orientation will make me vote Kerry, of course. Maybe that's because it is one that honors all faiths and no faith, and honors all people as children of God.
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Crazy8s Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. Beautifully put, ayeshahaqqiqa
my sentiments exactly.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fundamentalists are dangerous
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 07:12 AM by louis c
whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish.

They all inhibit freedom to one degree or another. The less the better.
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. I vote Democratic because
I believe that Jesus taught us to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, heal the sick, bury the dead etc. While the party does not espouse all those things it has a history of being closer to the truth then the other pole. It's not a case of voting for the lessor of 2 evils for me. The Democratic party has at it's core tried to do the right thing and the other side is all about greed. Not all conservative Christian or otherwise are evil but they are caught up in an evil philosophy.

BTW there are plenty Christians who are not right wing and they speak and act. Check out Kathy Kelly, the 3 sisters who were sentenced to federal time, the Berrigan brothers and the Catholic Worker movement for starters. Christianity is not a monolith. The RW "Christians" are not really Christians in my opinion because most actually reject what Jesus taught. Many follow a teaching called "dispensationalism." This false teaching says that Jesus preached to the Jews and they rejected Him. Your name sake, Paul is their man and they take him out of the context of the Gospels. It's all of a piece. But this allows them to throw out great chunks of the Bible and smugly maintain that every word is true.

3 quotes from a great Christian and the last ought to be the banner of all believers of whatever faith.
"Christianity has not failed, it has never been tried."
"I'm still a liberal. It's those people who aren't liberals."
"A coziness between church and state is good for the state and bad for the church". C.K. Chesterton
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Don't dismiss all of Paul
He wrote some very beautiful verse.

9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.<3> Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"<4> says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."<5> 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. I don't dismiss Paul at all-
But Paul read without the foundation of the Gospels is no gospel. He took for granted that his readers knew the sayings of Jesus. These wingnuts just reject the Gospels whole cloth and the don't much like brother James either.
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yes I will be voting my religious ideals
Feeding the poor, making peace not war, healing the sick (universal healthcare) are all reasons I generally vote for the democratic candidate. Kerry is making it very difficult to vote for him because of his swerve to the right. But chances are he will get my vote anyway just because bush is worse than he is.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. It won't affect my vote at all...
but being raised a Catholic, I know many Catholic Dems that are way hung up on the abortion issue that it absolutely blinds them to everything else. Then they go and vote for pResisident nitwit because he says he's against abortion. They are the truly one issue voters that helped the chimp in 2000.
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Carolinian Donating Member (861 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bible in one hand...gun in the other hand.
That's how a Christian fundamentalist thinks. That's the back-woods crowd that loves Bush.
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Spygame Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. I don't care to much about the bible but I do like a nice gun
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Religious fundamentalism of any type
will not get my vote. Same for hyprocrisy. Both of these seem to be somewhat of a theme in this administration. I get a spiritual vibe from the Kerry team and for me spirituality is what's important.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Since my dream of an atheist president ain't gonna happen...
I'll vote for the guy who let's religion play the least amount of influence possible in his life.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. It wouldn't, except
that I see organized religion, in this case, conservative christians, thriving on political activism. So my vote goes to counteract them, when possible.

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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. As a Catholic...
I believe there is more to a man's character than his stand on abortion. I believe his honesty, how he treates the environment, how he treats his fellow man all rank higher on my list than abortion. On my top three points Kerry trounces the shrub.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'll vote for Kerry (duh!) even though he professes religion...
When we get the point where someone doesn't have to go "Hey, LOOK! I go to church!" in order to get elected, then perhaps we will have advanced out of superstitous darkness.

Until then, keep buying those magical 9-11 Teddy Bears. They watch everything you do and report straight back to Jesus.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. walked past a group praying before dinner
outside in a tourist mountain town. a large group of people. and told husband, something has happened when looking at people pray. in the past i felt good, and a good for them, now i feel restriction, limitation, exclusion in religion. i am having a crisis of religion, not of god, not of jesus, but religion. cannot hardly stand to see religion in their abuse of gods words, or their desire in creating hate and anger and judgement

i am absolutely voting in the sense of getting power away from religion.

i am not a religious person, i cannot do groups, nor do i blindly follow mans words, nor place faith in man. i am a christian that lives in christ conscious, in faith, with god.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. People saying grace bothers you?
It's you who is having the problem then.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. well of course it is mine
fully accept that. what i said in my post and what i said to husband. yes you are right

you see, i live in the panhandle of texas, heavily baptist, people pray all over place. my sons go to a baptist private school, we pray all the time all over the place, my sons go to christian summer camps, lots of praying going on there, geez, even walking down the street and bump into a neighbor, you bet, we all may stop and pray

now again i say, from a non religious, i think i do a pretty good upstanding job embracing prayer and other religion

as a nation i have watched prayer used in going to war and murdering people

in the local i watch prayer used to hate gays, hate liberals, hate democrats, hate blacks, iragi's and any muslims.

i have a church bus that goes up my street every sunday painted black and the front in bold flames, the church of grace, and gives me the yuks in where our religion is today

never having been religious cause i do not need a group to tell me how to be christian or feel lite and love, i have always respected, and learn religions so i can embrace anothers belief and why they practice what they do

i do not have fear for self in grace, i do say to those i love, who struggle so hard to find jesus, have stronger faith, that the reason they struggle so is they are listening to man, not christ

but yes, i accept and know it is my own illusion and game to play. it is mine to own, how i feel, what i see

you are exactly right, wink
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. When I see that, I can't help but think they're being . . .
"holier than thou." They may not be, but with everything that's happened over the past several years, it's the first thought that pops into my head.

"Did YOU remember to bless your meal, you heathens?"

Ugh.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. If you expect tolerance you also have to give it
And be tolerant of their religious views.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. but but but they say i am non christian
am a heathen, am going to hell, am unpatriot, am unamerican............

that is their religious view, i know this, because this is what they tell me. out loud. to my face

no, no, i do not have to accept this. i am not this, and what they believe is illusion, created all in their own little mind, it is not fact, and i do not honor
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Whether you go to hell is sort of up to you or your beliefs
If they believe it, it is their choice.

Personally, I believe in the NT God, who is a God of peace and love.

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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Oh I tolerate it . . .
. . . in the dictionary definition of the term: "to endure, put up with".

I'm nothing if not "tolerant".
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. Religion is part of who I am so it

must influence what I do, including voting, but I don't insist that a candidate agree with me on every issue. Although I'm opposed to abortion, I don't vote for candidates who are supposedly pro-life just because they oppose abortion. Usually those candidates think simply making abortion illegal is the answer but of course it'e not. The goal should be to make abortion rare, as well as safe and legal. Ideally, I'd want a candidate to have a plan to reduce the demand for abortions, and plans to move away from capital punishment and war. That's why I was delighted to be able to vote for Dennis Kucinich in the primary this year.

Like John Kerry, I'm a Catholic who knows the importance of a well-developed conscience in making decisions. I know what the Catholic Church teaches and agree with it but expecting non-Catholics to agree is silly. Furthermore, I don't see how anyone with a well-developed conscience can vote for Bush* this year. He's sent soldiers to war in two countries, using questionable information to make his case for war in both cases. The wars have resulted in thousands of deaths, and thousands of people being maimed, and there's no end to the killing and maiming in sight. And I'm supposed to vote for him because he's made a couple of small decisions that are seen as being against abortion? No way!

By the way, I've never had a priest tell me how to vote and I don't expect to, either. If I were in the diocese of one of the bishops who'd deny me Communion for voting for a pro-choice candidate, he'd just have to personally come to my church and deny me Communion because I would not stay away from the sacraments voluntarily, and I will vote for John Kerry.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. Bush is a horrible christian, spitting on everything jesus stood for
but even if he were fucking st. peter, i wouldn't consider it in my decision. personal views mean nothing to politics, as long as they are not acted on rather than the will of the people


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. Keep your religion out of my politics
and I'll stay out of your church.
We need total separation of church and state AND an end to 'civic displays of piety'.
I for one am in favor of eliminating the phrase 'In God we trust', and other such manifestations of false piety from public life.
Everytime I hear the phrase 'I'm a good Christian, so I'm voting Republican' I want to puke.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'll vote to counteract Bush's insane policies
This jerk has been horrible on church/state issues and I can't wait to toss him and his fellow fundie freeps right out of the White House.
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Crowdance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. Major factor
I'll always vote to keep religion out of our political lives. Because religion is such a personal matter, it has no place in policy making. My own spiritual views are very different from the prevailing judeo/christian ones. My own behavior shouldn't be controlled by a religion I've rejected. Jews and Christians shouldn't be controlled by my religious beliefs. No religous view is more "correct" in the general sense than any other, so none should prevail. I'll always select the candidate most likely to see the reason in that. Shrub is, obviously, not in that camp. I haven't read anything about Kerry that would indicate he's interested in imposing the tenets of Catholicism on all of us.


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Carolinian Donating Member (861 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. I work with some backwoods Bush supporters. I'm talking about guys
who are in love with assalt weapons. They hate to be referred to as Christian fundamentalists, although that's exactly what they are. They asked me to stop using the F-word when referring to them. LOL!
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. God has nothing to do with Bush!
Bush just uses God's name to steal votes from fools!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'll be praying as I mark my ballot that Kerry wins.
Just as I have been praying for years that this madness ends. My beliefs are why I cannot ever concieve of voting for the weed that would be king or his demon followers.

The bible warns of the false prophets that are the RW!
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