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When DID The "Shot Across The Bow" Happen?

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Unperson 309 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:41 AM
Original message
When DID The "Shot Across The Bow" Happen?

When did the first serious warning sign happen that the GOP was going to kick ass and take names? When did it happen and why did we not respond?

My theory is that the shot across the bow happened when Ronald Reagan destroyed PATCO, the air traffic controllers union. That was the first devastating blow. We didn't respond because we had, for YEARS been conditioned to accept authority. We didn't realize what was to come.

Your estimate as to the first strike?

309
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. It started with a...
... letter written by Lewis Powell, in 1971, shortly before he became a Supreme Court justice. Google "Powell Manifesto" and you'll be sure to find a copy. That was the blueprint. The disillusioned lefties who became the neo-conservatives simply picked up that game plan and ran with it.

Cheers.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Here's a link
Attack of American Free Enterprise System (Confidential Memorandum of August 23, 1971, by Lewis F. Powell, Jr., to US Chamber of Commerce)

Read. Weep. Repeat.

--bkl
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yeah, have read much of it in the past...
... it's a pisser, ain't it? Accelerated planned obsolescence, getting people to think like consumers and love the big corps such as GM (I believe Powell, at the time, did legal work for GM and some other large clients). Fight off the counter-culture inclinations of peace, love and harmony.

And, the wingers mobilized--started putting lots of money into think tanks, PR firms, getting people elected with similar notions....

Yup. Read it and weep.

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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. That is a scary scary document
Can any one not say that the RW has acheieved 99% of their 1971 agenda in only thirty years?
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. When GHWB and his CIA outlaws whacked Kennedy and got away with it.
It was just a matter of time, after that.
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. I agree ! I agree ! I agree!!!!
No one can know for sure if there really is a vast right-wing conspiracy, but there is certainly a very well organized system in place to attempt to control our nation. I've always believed that Kennedy was whacked by the Radical Right. They are cowardly, fearful people who, for some STUPID reason, believe they own the U.S.

Given the technology available today, there is NO WAY the Radical Right could pull off something like the Kennedy Hit. They'd be found out almost instantly. So, nowadays, they just try to steal elections.


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Unperson 309 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. They Could Pull It Off With BEWILDERING Ease!
Yiu see, you predicate your statement on the idea that if they were found out, it would be a bad thing. They don't CARE if they are found out! Look at the Kennedy assassination!

If they are found out, who will report it? The same media we have today? What happens to whistle-blowers? To informants?

These ginks have done INCREDIBLY vile things quite openly and their deeds go unreported, or if reported, the believers are relegated to the tinfoil loony bin and the wheelers and dealers keep on wheeling and dealing!

Truth is they don't give a tin shit!

309
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. uh, go back to the charter of this country:
among other sad things, to exploit the resources of the third world.

this white patriarchy.

where the worst genocide in the history of the world has taken place - and continues, though only slightly more insidiously.

it is progressives who are the ones in action, always trying to grow us out of that heritage.

and, by the way, what "we" are you saying didn't respond?
MILLIONS have never stopped fighting, for even a second. whole lives sacrificed to growth, justice, equality.


peace!
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TowelBoy Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Curious
"where the worst genocide in the history of the world has taken place - and continues, though only slightly more insidiously."

What genocide? I'm not being argumentative, I'm geniunely curious. If anybody could help me out I'd appreciate it. Gracias.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I would assume nofurylike
is speaking of the systematic genocide against the native peoples of North America. I also assume he/she meant to say that the genocide is not less insiduous, not more.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. yes, thank you northzax.
at least 15 million First Nations persons

many millions of Africans

and so on...

it is more insidious ("Working or spreading in a hidden and usually injurious way").

it was bold before, now is more hidden, cunning, though still unbelievably obvious to any who care and will look.

and despicable in any terms.

thank you.


peace!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. speaking specifically of First Nations and African persons
(reply at post 20 as well)

"NORTH America has topped a list of the worlds worst genocide cases in a Belgian report."
The Scotsman, Fri 9 Apr 2004

at least 15 million First Nations people ("Native Americans").

estimates of genocide of Africans, in this country alone, are even harder to establish. millions!


and the genocide is still going on.

atrocity.

the point is, if one seeks when the government of this country FIRST betrayed the principles we progressive dems espouse, and only WISH our founding fathers did, s/he would have to keep going back and back and would finally recognize that this is what this country IS.
our heritage.

it is a matter of progressives of each generation working to evolve us FROM that.

progress.

and then, reactions to that progress, as those described in many posts here.


peace!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. i must add that in the first century of colonizing the western hemisphere
over 100 MILLION!! indigenous people were murdered by europeans.

!!!

to be more accurate than what i'd posted above.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. and how many more peoples here and around the world...... n/t
i would have to go on at length to really be accurate on this issue.

point: they never disengaged, so didn't have to engage (shoot across the bow).


bye

peace!
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Not to downplay atrocities committed by European colonizers
but many indigenous people died of diseases brought over by Europeans.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. ah yes. like the smallpox blankets you mean?
first rate bioterrorism.

i recommend researching this. it will rip out your heart, but it is crucial.


peace!
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. working to evolve...
Looks like the problem stems from our biological make-up!

Step One: Climb out of the primordial ooze of violent noncooperative social behavior and think outside the algae...

Step Two: Backbones. Get one. Help someone else climb out.

Step Three: Teach one other.


:bounce:
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. yes, really. it does seem that an antinatural selection results from
genocidal conquest:
only those slighted on the alleged altruism gene WOULD commit it...
only the most brutal survive resistance to it...
and so on.

you describe what seems an excellent social evolution to me, Generic Other:

>Step One: Climb out of the primordial ooze of violent noncooperative social behavior and think outside the algae...

Step Two: Backbones. Get one. Help someone else climb out.

Step Three: Teach one other.<


absolutely! a heritage i could embrace!
now to get that into the schools!

:)
:bounce:


peace!
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'll argue for GHW Bush's secret Paris meeting with the Iranians 1980
the meeting before the election where there was a deal of arms for releasing the hostages AFTER the 1980 elections. That was the shot that said the GOP and especially the House of BUSH would do ANYTHING, including selling the USA down the river.
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moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. When They did not impeach Ford for the pardon of Nixon
Edited on Wed Jul-21-04 01:40 AM by moof
A clear conflict of interest that allowed a bunch of the rest of the criminals to get away, many of whom are in power today.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why hasn't our side fought back yet? We have had plenty of time!
Edited on Wed Jul-21-04 01:41 AM by Democat
Remember the 2002 election? It was all about who could kiss Bush's ass the hardest and we, as most here predicted, got our asses kicked.

The same in 2000 - we couldn't win by winning because our side doesn't know how to fight.

We can thank Move On, Michael Moore, and Howard Dean for some fire, but most of our current elected Democratic leaders have given some signs that they will never be strong enough to really stand up to the current batch of Republicans.

Regardless of when the Republicans started to fight, when will the Democrats start to fight back?
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Don't worry, my friend.
After the more important task of BRUTALLY removing bush, and as many of the Radical Right as we can this Fall, we will start cleaning house.
A bad Democrat is worse than any republican.
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mark11727 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Watergate, and the resulting media circus.
The GOP & RW realized that to control the media was to control the general population, and so began loosening FCC regulations, etc. This is why (1) the RW gets so much slack (2) so much news comes out sounding like GOP talking points (3) any progressive ideas face an upstream battle --- since the general population are sheep (or just plain lazy), it becomes easy to lull them into believing almost anything.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. I nominate The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Here are some other right-wing milestones:

The Goldwater candidacy of 1964.

The Red Scare of the early 1950s, symbolized by the editing of the Pledge of Allegiance in 1955.

The passage of the Taft-Hartley Act, restricting labor organizing, in 1947.

The Palmer Raids against suspected Communists in the 1920s.

The era of widespread Lynching, 1880-1938.

Actually, I think the "shot across the bow" was fired in Europe with the publication of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in 1905 (in Russian) and 1907 (in English). Every bit of modern Right-wing rhetoric can be found in the Victor Marsden's English translation. The American Right simply substitutes the enemy-of-the-week for "Jew" in that document. The rhetorical mind-virus of the PEZ has been so effective that modern Jewish neo-Cons will parrot lines from it without realizing what they've done.

The Protocols actually comes from a satire called Biarritz, by Maurice Joly, a French writer with a bent toward philosophy and absurdism. The original was "adapted" for the Protocols. Biarritz is a real place, the cultural and business center of the French Basques in the 19th century, who, like the Jews, were also often accused of plotting the overthrow of all that is holy and pure. (Guernica, in Spain, is said to be the cultural capital of the Basque people as a whole -- and you remember what happened there, don't you?)

It's not difficult to get a copy of the Protocols at all -- just use Google or your favorite search engine. There are 24 so-called "protocols" in the document, each of which is loaded with modern RW talking points and rhetoric.

If you want to read the prime example of a mighty seed-pod of memes, you can't do better than The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

--bkl
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. seems like it was 1980 to me, that's when all civility went out the window
that's when it seems they declared war on us and Rush Limbaugh came out.

But maybe it just seems that way to me because it was my first election.

I grew up in the 60's and 70's and maybe because of that childhood, radical and lefty seemed the norm.

Boy was I in for a surprise in 1980.

College republicans on my campus in Columbia Missouri. I remember thinking how pathetic it was -- you're in COLLEGE and you're already CONSERVATIVE. That's just fucked up. Go get a life for God's sake.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. When conservatism adopted a kindly, grandfatherly face
Edited on Wed Jul-21-04 03:21 AM by elperromagico
in the form of Ronald Reagan.

You will note that modern conservatives running for President rarely run as conservatives. They smother their agendas in jingoism, feel-good talk, and often outright lies. They become "compassionate conservatives" and they talk about "family values" and "morning in America."

Barry Goldwater ran as an unabashed, honest-to-God conservative, and what happened to him? He was savaged at the polls by LBJ. I think the neocons learned a lesson from that: the American people don't want conservatism. It took them 16 years to put that lesson into practice, and they did it with Ronald Reagan. Reagan was the pleasant face of conservatism, the person people could vote for.

So - the shot across the bow was when conservatives learned to lie about being conservatives... and nobody stopped them.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. November 22, 1963
The "shot across the bow" was the one that killed JFK
and they've been at it ever since.

Watergate was an aberration only in that they got caught, and the
press actually did it's job. For the last time. After that the
right wing muzzled the press the American way -- they bought it.

Who pays the piper calls the tune.

Reagan and Bush I were able to do worse than Watergate and get away with it.
Bush* and Cheney have brought corruption and abuse of power to new levels
with impunity because of none of it ever gets reported here.

Who owns the news?

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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-04 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. It has always been going on.
It is just how people are.Would we rule our selfs or be ruled, has been a thing most people know about.It goes up and down like waves, who will get the upper hand. Look at Germany. Brits have done it better. They have slowly giving more power to the people over years. We have, I think, 100 more countries that have the vote than we did when I was a child. Every one wanted to be like the USA at one time and now many have got here and do not look up to us so and we may be in the down ward turn now. People seem to have for got we started this so we could dissent against the rulers and now we have laws saying go to that place if you wish to dissent. It just all goes in waves I think.
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