Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Will a bunch of DUers fall for the Iran garbage like they fell for Iraq?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:41 PM
Original message
Will a bunch of DUers fall for the Iran garbage like they fell for Iraq?
Oh, the recriminations before the war were incredible from this pack. Incredible! And when they were told the WMDs were bullshit, and the al-Qaeda saddam connection was bullshit, and that the whole thing would be a slow, grinding, long-term catastrophe - they scoffed! Scoffed, I tell you! And, of course, eventually many skulked in with so-I-was-wrongs together with dire warnings about the alienating effects of I-told-you-so's, when all anybody really wanted to say was Don't be such a fucking clod next time!!

Enter next time. The Iran gambit - an insane proposal that will show the American people what a fairly high intensity war with a well-equipped enemy actually looks like these days (we haven't seen anything of the sort in the poverty-stricken and ill-equipped Iraq) - is in full swing. The media is buzzing, the reports are being written, the white papers produced in a thousand churning minds in a thousand churning think tanks. As my man Ice Cube used to say, "Once again, it's on." So what will DUers do? Will there once again be a pack of yes-persons, plugging all the insane arguments for an insane venture, proposing them as eminently reasonable, until the bodies pile up? Will we see the same stupidities this time around?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
22181 Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't say for the others...
I did fall for the Iraq lie. I couldn't believe the President would blatantly lie to us. I suspected it deep down, and when I found out he was lying I wasn't surprised, but I wanted more than anything to believe that there was a good reason to go in there. I mean, he knowingly, blatantly lied in his State of the Union address. I just couldn't comprehend someone doing that. I was naieve.

This time around? Hell-damn-f*ck-no. I now know we have liars in that office who will say and do anything to further their nefarious agendas. I'm not falling for any more lies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. You gotta figure. A guy who would steal an election...
by purging legal voters, and all of the other dirty tricks in Florida to steal the election, would do anything. If you listen to pundits they are now saying that bush had this plan BEFORE he ran in 2000. Whenever someone says that, no one ever follows up with, how could he have had a plan before 2000 when he wasn't the president? No one ever asks though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MattNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. i gave 'lukewarm' support to the war
yet we botched so many aspects of it that it's now next to impossible for me to give them any support in the future. The Iranian army itself would have to be coming down my street for me to support military action against Iran.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. More importantly...
What'll Kerry do this time 'round? This on-come Iran "crisis" would be a most excellent time to demostrate the recovery from the spine transplant.

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jerseygirltoo Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. as our Dear Leader said
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..um, won't get fooled again
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I honestly dont remember that many DUers who for the war
there were some,to be sure,but not many :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I'm with you Forkboy.
Mostly, I remember DU'ers organizing protests, letter writing and email campaigns against it. A few disruptors were evident, but as a whole we HATED the idea. I think we were shocked when it happened anyway and then we discovered no one cared about what the people thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. That's the way I remember it.
About as popular as Nader on the Californis ballot.

And I can't imagine anyone but a mole being for Iran if it really comes up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. That's my recollection, as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. I'm with you. I didn't see too much support for the war on DU.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. There were not that many at all.
Only a few, and most everyone here was totally against it. There were protest pictures posted all the time, when the regular media lied about the numbers.

There were stories of those who had gone to them proudly. Things began to change around October I believe, or around that time. It appeared to become more....how shall I say it....not "pro" war, but just that it seemed ok now. Not against it, just justifying it.

I could say more, but I'd better not.

No, most here were definitely against the war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I'll say it
the war has become acceptable because it's hard to be against the war and still swallow Kerry's vote.So,in favor of winning the dirty deed has to be put into acceptable terms so no one's brain pops :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I haven't seen any justification for the war
I've seen justification for Kerry's vote (I stand by my analysis that a resolution was better than no resolution, because Bush would have gone in with no limits at all), but no "In retrospect, the war was justified."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm terrified the crazy
bastard in the White House is trying to provoke something with this. But there's no way I'm buying into it. They must be pretty desperate to pull this out now. I'm sure they've known about it, true or not for quite some time now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. I did not fall for Iraq.
Though I was not on DU at the time, I did not fall for Iraq. I wanted proof. My gut feeling has always been that this is not right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. nah...
just the same ones...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. At this point, in all honesty..I would have to have seen with my own eyes
whatever it is they use as evidence to believe anything anymore about September 11th and Al Qaeda

and I don't mean reports or intel either..I mean the actual event from start to finish and every action from every single "suspect" allegedly involved. Otherwise, I ain't buying shit.

There is no one I trust to "inform" me.

I didn't buy Iraq, btw.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. we're gonna keep invading countries until we get it right!
Pretty soon we'll invade the one who actually caused 9/11.

It's inevitable! I mean, how many countries ARE there, anyway?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. It's the "process of elimination" resolution
they are all guilty until we get it right...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't believe I knew about DU at the time
but I was NEVER for the war in Iraq. I was never convinced it wasn't a sham and immoral and unjustified.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stewert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Huh ?

I don't think many DUers fell for the Iraq crap. We had it figured out long before the war, so did Scott Ritter and a lot of other Liberals too.

I read hundreds of postings here that de-bunked the Bush phony intelligence long before the war.

I think your headline is misleading, I would bet less than 10% of DUers fell for the Iraq war WMD rap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. I don't like calling people out,
but I can name 5 or 6 high profile DUers who backed the invasion of Iraq because Saddam is such a baaaaad man.

I don't think markses is saying it was ever a majority but I was surprised that even 10% of DUers (and I think the number is closer to 30%), with all the resources and information on here still favored toppling Saddam.

I don't think the same will be true of Iran however. It will be fun, however, cross-referencing pro-Iran invasion posters (because they beat their wimmin, y'know) with the anti-choice crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I remember some of them
A couple have been tombstoned, others have just gone really really quiet since the torture stories began to come out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. I wasn't taken in by the Iraq argument, and I have long said
that invading Iran would be stupider to a monumental degree.

The youth of Iran are fascinated by Western pop culture, they're sick of the mullahs, and they want more freedom. If we just let the country be, the younger generation, who will soon be the majority, will liberalize the government.

But if the Busheviks invade, Iranian youth will instantly turn into nationalists, and Iraq will look like a garden party in comparison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I expect the sheep to behave like sheep
The beauty is that when we debate the merits of IWR, we would be talking about the Iran War Resolution, and we can use the same protest signs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hey, it's always good to recycle!
I wonder if the "git a clew, Morans" guy will be back out there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. No, I thought Chimpy was lying the first time he brought it up.
What worries me the most, however, is that all of the other DU predictions and assessments will come to pass:
--Cancellation of the presidential elections
--Devastation of the economy
--Martial law
--Invasion of Iran
--Nuclear weapons used by U.S. or Israel
and on and on...

DU has been right too many times for me not to be terra-fied.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. ack...
Yes, unless you VOTE AGAINST BUSH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. If they are fooled again
SHAME on them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. I ain't going for it... Iran isn't a big enough threat to us to be of
any consequence. Piss on that jive! :thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. Just to qualify
There is no doubt that the vast majority of DUers were not fooled by Bush's bullshit. However, there were some very vocal supporters. I'm wondering if we'll see the same vocal support again now that the Iran bandwagon is revving up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
32. I'm surprised to hear that there was any support for invading Iraq here.
I didn't find out about DU until this past spring (after the primaries, thankfully), so I wasn't around then, but I was never, ever in favor of invading Iraq.

I didn't believe anything Shrub said at the time, but what really upset me was this - even if Iraq had had WMD, how did that make it good policy for us to invade???

We know that North Korea, China, Pakistan, India, and various other countries (some of which are very unfriendly to the U.S.) have nukes. You don't see us invading them, right? Right. Because it would be STUPID.

That's what invading Iraq was. Stupid. And evil. And then, on top of that, Rumsfeld and Co totally botched it! No surprise really, since it's to be expected that stupid idiots will continue being stupid idiots, which is why I'm not surprised that they're now talking about poking a stick at Iran. Stupid stupid stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Oct 20th 2014, 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC