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Does Shrub even HAVE to go to Congress to go after Iran??

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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:59 PM
Original message
Does Shrub even HAVE to go to Congress to go after Iran??
or was the foolishness of the way the resolution written to do Afganstan said "anyone involved in 9/11"??
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. congress gave him a blank check....
remember they are doing major troop movements right now and we have not heard hide nor hare more on that either....
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DODI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. No he does not -- Congress gave it all away
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SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yup ... that was Robert Byrds outrage on MTP this Sunday
Pretty sobering huh ?
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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Does Shrub even HAVE to go to Congress to go after Iran??"
That is the problem with a preemptive policy;he'll never go back to Congress.He won't even try to "sell" it this time. He'll just go.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Hi merbex!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. The pre-emptive doctrine is his doctrine, where is the
Congressional approval of the doctrine and what resolution of Congress provides him the authority?
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. The made the big mistake of "trusting" him.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. He wouldn't have to without any resolution
War Powers Act mandates that he ask for permission within a finite amount of time after hostilities have been started.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. There aren't any troops left to invade Iran though.
That means that:

A) * bombs Iran, but doesn't invade. Since Iran doesn't have anything to lose, they openly support the Iraqi Freedom Fighters.

B) * reinstates the draft. A coup d' etat then takes place and he is overthrown.
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nose pin Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Third option
Clandestine support to anti-govt. Iranians. Revolution.

Our troops are stationed on either side, to choke off any other outside support to the Iranian govt.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bush has blanket Congress and UN authorization to go after
any countries involved in 9-11 or harbor those who were involved in 9-11. That was the actual legal reason he gave congress for the invasion of Iraq. I wonder how he's going to tie N. Korea in to 9-11.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Which resolution is that? The resolution that provided for
the use of force in Iraq is specific to Iraq. What resolution is it that you are referring to?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Or Cuba
Remember when Carter visited Cuba the bush gang started up with Cuba having clandestine chem weapons labs?

We are deep into the woods now, with the moron leading us - God help us if this madman is allowed another term (or an "emergency" extension of this term).
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. No--he became the wonderful war president
to war on anything that moves or who he chooses to lie about with that wonderful bit of wisdom coming from the Congress. I do not think there are the troop resources to do it now. But if he gets elected and Russia frees up 40,000 of our troops, replacing them with theif troops, and a draft is instituted, he will, no doubt, do it. He will not think about it, will not take advice, will not listen to anyone else but those who agree with him in his madness and there seeems to be no shortage of those who are quite willing to do so. If he does get elected, it will be a goal and he has shown he has no respect at all for what anything anyone else thinks. He is a one way Harrigan--ill advised and ill equipped, intellectually, to do anything else but stage events and declare himself a war president.

He is a mindless and ignorant fascist. He longs for and seeks war and killing. He loves , in a perverse way, that he has this power of life and death over people--the Iraqi people, the Afgan people, our own children. I believe that.

He loves the sense of power it gives him in his sick fantasies, and yet it is almost certain he is a measly coward who avoided going into active war, and went AWOL in time of war, himself

He is as insane as, heavens forgive me for saying it, :eyes: a Hitler.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes
The resolution that provided for the use of force in Iraq is specific to Iraq.
==========================
107th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. J. RES. 114
October 10, 2002

JOINT RESOLUTION
To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.

Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;

Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;

(snip)

(c) War Powers Resolution Requirements-

(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS. (a) REPORTS- The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 3 and the status of planning for efforts that are expected to be required after such actions are completed, including those actions described in section 7 of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338).

http://www.yourcongress.com/ViewArticle.asp?article_id=...

==============================

Full resolution and discussion found at this link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Big Ed discussed this on his show today
and his opinion is he does need Congress' permission.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. Madfloridian posted the proposed 'Regime Change in Iran' document
here about a year ago. I've been looking through all of my printed articles for it for about 2 hrs. now, but I still haven't found it.

It came from InformationClearinghouse and I'm pretty sure that Rep. Lantos (D-CA?) helped to draw it up. This was done quite some time ago, during the Clinton administration I think.

When/if I find the link I'll post it here.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. S. Res. 82
(3) it should be the policy of the US to seek a geniune democratic government in Iran that will restore freedom to the Iranian people, abandon terrorism, and live in peace and security with the international community.

I still haven't found the House's version of this, but I think that it was approved and this S. Res. 82 was sent to the Foreign Relations Committee.

I guess the question would be whether the house and senate have the stomach to go with this or not?
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