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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:49 PM
Original message
NaziAmericans attacked N.Y.C., not Osama or Saddam or Iran
naziamericans destroyed the twin towers and the pentagon, not the 19 muslim men on the famous wanted poster published the very next day.

naziamericans killed thousands in central america under reagan/bush, and robbed the treasury as well. naziamericans invaded panama and iran under bush 1, and killed thousands more.

naziamericans invaded afghanistan and iraq and untold thousands have died, men, women and babies, and old people and people who had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11.

yet to this day, almost three years later, millions of americans still believe that it was done by osama, or saddam, or even the iranians, and by connection, all muslims. they still have absolutely no clue that it was done by cheney, rumsfeld, rice, wolfowitz, perle, kristol, bush/bush/bush, and the other naziamericans leftover from the reagan/bush days.

how in THEE fuck do they get away with the abject, obvious war crimes and atrocities with no fear of being caught? is it black magic? mass hypnosis? automatic mind control?

what suckers we are, we sucker americans.
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. From their moonbase?
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No, No MoonBase! They have....
Flying Saucers.

But they actually can't get to the Moon.
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:56 PM
Original message
You need to read this. They've been there since 42.
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. They got to Mars!
But that didn't happen until the end of the War. And it was a one-way trip.

<<The large intensity of the electro-magnetogravitic fields and the inferior quality of the metal alloys used then for the structural elements of the drive, was causing the metal to fatigue and get very brittle only after a few months of work of the drive. The flight to Mars departed from Germany one month before the war ended - in April 1945.
>>

Trips by the Vatican and the Russian-American alliance of 1956 may have been more successful:

<<Later trips to Mars by the joint Soviet - American craft in 1952 and by the Vatican craft of the Marconi project from Argentina in 1956 reached Mars in only 2 - 3 days, because their drives were working during the whole flight: accelerating in the first half and decelerating in the second. Smaller Kohler converters were probably used to power the systems and life support equipment on board. >>
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. No it couldn't be
because that's where I live and I woulda noticed them.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. And here all along I thought it was Democratic dissenters!
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Automatic Mind Control!
Yep, MP, it's Automatic Mind Control! That's it!

Otherwise, all us deluded Leftist Fools would see Truth, and agree with you immediately.

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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Them Too!
It's us Bush critics who Secretly Hate America.

We did it!
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Seriously, I am a firm believer that Neo-Nazis or someone besides...
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:02 PM by ck4829
Al Qaeda and definitely non-Muslims are connected to the 9/11 attacks. One of my first posts was about the 'Turner Diaries', the handbook for White Christian terrorists, a copy of it was kept by Timothy McVeigh under his pillow. The similarities in the Turner Diaries are astounding: The attacks happened on November 9 (11/9), it was done with airplanes, and the building hit was the Pentagon. Too much of it to be a coincidence for me. It is also interesting that the 9/11 Commission did not cover this at all.
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yeah, the 9/11 Commission didn't cover....
a -lot- of good stuff.

Like, how did they get those rocket pods on the Jetliners and how did they get the explosives in the WTC for the controlled demolition?

And what -did- happen to that 767 that -didn't- hit the Pentagon?

Seriously?
Coincidences like you mention are meaningless. You can find them anywhere if you look hard enough.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Sounds like premeditation to me.
Sounds like premeditation to me.

But I am a little more suspicious of the lunatic right wing than you are.

It seems that a lot of right wingers were planning on a clash of civilizations well before 9-11. Not just PNAC.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. What would you do....
....if the Trade Centers were at risk of being brought down in an uncontrolled manner by another bombing.... it would be best if they came straight down in a controlled manner... but then who knows.... who will ever know....



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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Is that really in the TD's.
If so it is an important piece of the story.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Here you go
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:26 PM by ck4829
"The Turner Diaries ends with the central character takes a "one way trip to the Pentagon" with a warhead in the front seat of the plane. (The date is Nov 9 <11/9> while these attacks occurred 9/11.)"

http://www.stopviolence.com/hate/9-11.htm

It's not just similarities, it is also the fact that this is a handbook for terrorists
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well, that proves it! Wow!
9/11, 11/9.

Who'd expect a terrorist to know the difference?

And in a 'Handbook for Terrorists' too!

Wow.

Are there any flying saucers in the Turner Diaries?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. While I agree that post offers no real evidence
You're the last person to talk.You usually just spout "you're wrong". That isn't a counter argument :shrug:

And why are you so upset by these threads? It's the only topic you post here on,and it's always with the intent to deride people you think are wrong.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. That is because he can do nothing BUT deride.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 08:34 PM by TheWatcher
I've been waiting for indisputable proof that the official story is what really happened for over three years now.

I'm still waiting.

A lot of us are.

I'm sure he has a perfectly good logical, referenced explanation for things like the Pristine Passport found on top of the rubble at ground Zero, all the convenient evidence just lying around to be found, etc.

The truth remans thus.

It's three years later and we still don't know what really happened on that day. Only a lot of questions, and an out of control government who contunues to look more and more suspiscious as time goes on.

But the Official Story is still the most laughable explanation of them all.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Do you know what the Turner Diaries are?
It does not seem like you do.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
49. don't forget that in the rest of the world, numerical dates are backwards
I.e. November 9 would be written as 9/11 outside the US. Now how this would translate into the Muslim calendar, I'm not sure. Or the Jewish calendar, given the potential for Mossad involvement.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you have an opportunity please watch Daniel Ellsberg's lecture on
Free Speech TV. He admits all of the lies that were told during Viet Nam. He goes into detail about the lies of the Gulf of Tonkin incident that led to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. He deals with the fact that in 1995 McNamara admitted that the attack was bogus, but the NY Times is still refusing to print it as such.

He mentions 9/11 and that a few months prior he didn't really give it any thought as he was thinking about other things (as are most Americans). He also mentions that if our government could put the lives of Americans at risk in the Gulf of Tonkin incident, then when he began to think about it, it is quite possible that for the greedy powers that be 9/11 COULD have been a staged event. He also mentions that even though history has demonstrated that the government will lie and do dastardly things most Americans want to believe that the government is above all of that.

It's a very good lecture.
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. After Vietnam....
I don't trust the Govt about anything.

But, I don't give it supernatural powers either.

-If- I see a 9/11 Consiracy theory that is even remotely plausible -and- that is backed up by any mere shred of -valid- argument, I will listen carefully.

Bullshit like the current post doesn't count.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. You think there was something supernatural involved in 9-11?
And we are the nuts? Who does that work?

So it would have take super natural powers for 9-11 to be a homegrown plot but not so if done by Muslims?

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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. No supernatural powers. How much of what went on during the Viet Nam
era do you suppose would've come to light if Ellsberg hadn't blown the whistle?

In my household we call this the "old man/woman trying to get into heaven" syndrome. Commit some abhorrent acts, have an epipheny, tell the truth, and do better for the rest of one's existence.

McNamara sure took a long time to come clean with his part of it.

There are soooo many times that the 'absolute truth' isn't available because the paper trail has been destroyed, no one is willing to come forward yet, or the major players who would have said evidence are dead.

I'd just like to have the answers to the questions posed by Kristen Breitweiser. They seem like pretty common sense questions to me. I'll bet she and the other widows/widowers/victims would like to just have these common sense questions answered instead of avoided.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Could you post those questions?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 07:23 PM by Sterling
I am sure Tom would like to look at them and ignore them then pretend she was talking about aliens or witchcraft.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Chemtrails.
I keep telling people it's chemtrails.

How come nobody will listen?
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:06 PM
Original message
Because you haven't given us a LINK!
Give us a link and we will believe -anything-.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hey I think that shit's dangerous
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. The truth hurts.
And it sure brings out the professional apologists.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hey,we already got some flamebait threads going
quit trying to muscle in on our action :D

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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What flames?
We're helping out.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. no comment
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I am always saying that.
You really do serve a purpose. Not the one you would like but I for one appreciate your contribution to these threads.

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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wheee! This has been fun!
Thanks, MP!
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. Were naziAmericans also responsible for
the 1983 Beruit bombing, the Khobar towers, the USS Cole, the Achillie Lauro, the WWII holocaust, genocide in Rwanda, Stalin's purges, the Rainbow Warrior bombing, the Munich Olympics, the African embassy bombings and the bay of Pigs?

While we're at it, how about the 1989 bay area earthquakes, Mt. St. Helens eruption, the disco backlash, the Patriots victory in the 2001 superbowl, the popularity of the piano tie, Steve Bartman interfering with the foul ball in the Cubs game last year, and the Cavity Creeps from the old Crest commercials?

I just want to make sure I'm well informed on these issues.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Well you got two of em right.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:26 PM by Sterling
WWII holocaust. Bay of Pigs. GHW even supplied the boats for that one. Prescott just funded Hitler in the first.

I to wish you were informed on the issues.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Does supplying the boats
make him responsible for it, though? It was Kennedy's administration (in one of their very rare errors) that authorized the plan.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. It was actually a CIA plan JFK was sold.
It was a big mistake for JFK but hardly his idea. It was planned by the likes of GHW.

I think his pulling the plug on it in it's late stages helped get him murdered by the like of GHWB and his ilk.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. It was actually a CIA plan JFK was sold.
It was actually a CIA plan JFK was sold.


It was a big mistake for JFK but hardly his idea. It was planned by the likes of GHW.

I think his pulling the plug on it in it's late stages helped get him murdered by the like of GHWB and his ilk.


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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. this is not an outrageous claim...
the cloven hooved ones in office don't give a damn about anything except power and money and is well within their means to make something like this happen.

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. NaziAmericans get under my skin.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:32 PM by Minstrel Boy
Meet the "Read-Only Dual Dipole Generic Plastic Tag" RFID. Made by the good folks at Matrics (any resemblance to "Matrix" merely coincidental), a proud member of the military industrial complex since 1999, and a division of the Carlyle Group.

"Matrics was founded in July 1999 by Dr. William Bandy and Michael Arneson. Bill and Mike had worked for decades as scientists at the National Security Agency (NSA) developing cutting-edge wireless computing technologies. Based in a quiet suburb of Washington DC, Matrics was created with a vision to revolutionize the logistics and supply chain processes by deploying breakthrough RFID systems."
http://www.matrics.com/about /

Keep rocking in the so-called free world, mopaul.

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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Oh my god!
I use RFIDs to get into my building. THE GOVERNMENT IS CONTROLLING ME! AAAAH!!!

Where's the closest place to get a tin foil hat?
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Me too.
I draw the line at putting one under my skin.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. Nazis and Republican "ethnic outreach committees"
Nazis and Nazi sympathizers have made a home for themselves for years in the Republican Party as part of "ethnic outreach committees".

Nazi collaborators involved in George HW Bush's 1988 campaign included:

1.Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council's executive director, and head of "Bulgarians for Bush." Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.

2.Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of "Romanians for Bush." Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.

3.Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.

4.Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.

5.Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP's Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.

6.Bohdan Fedorak, leader of "Ukrainians for Bush." Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms.

http://alexconstantine.50megs.com/cia_nazis_and.html
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
33.  "George Bush and his fascist fan club"
A Radical Electronic Resource: George Bush, anti-Semites and the Big Lie

9/10/88 -- The Philadelphia Inquirer runs an article by David Lee Preston which corroborates much of the material in Washington Jewish Week. Preston also cites the Bellant report which describes how the Republican Party has been recruiting ethnic facists, racists and anti-Semites for over 20 years, through its Heritage Groups Council.

...

New York Post columnist Pete Hamill in a column titled "George Bush and his fascist fan club" quotes Menachem Rosensaft, president of the Labor Zionist Alliance and leader of the International Network of Children of the Holocaust:

"He accepted their resignations. And he said he was against anti-Semitism. But when they were gone, an aide said the charges against these men were `unsubstantiated and politically motivated.' Clearly Bush wanted them out once they were exposed, but he still wants the votes of their constituency."


9/29/88 -- Ron Kauffman, Northeast political director for Bush Campaign tells the Jewish Advocate newspaper the Bellant report as "totally outrageous." Mark Goodin, Bush Campaign spokesman, denounces Bellant's report and says people who voluntary resigned from campaign "vigorously defended" themselves against the charges. "We were not able to substantiate any of the allegations...These individuals maintain fierce opposition to the
charges. We certainly accept that explanation."

So the Bush campaign has come full circle to a total whitewash of the allegations. Just last week author Charles R. Allen Jr., an expert on the emigre Nazi network, questioned the candor of Bush when he "professed ignorance of pro-Nazi backgrounds" of the ethnic campaign supporters. Allen produced a 1983 photograph of George Bush shaking hands with Yaroslav Stetsko, then leader of the pro-Nazi Anti-bolshevik Bloc of Nations. The photo was taken at a White House reception. Bush signed the photo: "To the Honorable Yaroslav Stetsko with best wishes - George Bush." Allen also produced a 1976 RNC memo in which Bush, as RNC Chair, is reported to have reviewed the past work of the Republican Heritage Groups Council and set goals for the coming year. What Allen, Bellant and other critics conclude is that if George Bush becomes President he will continue to collaborate with Nazi collaborators, anti-Semites, fascists and racists as long as their hard-line anti-communism is useful to the Republican Party and a militant foreign policy.
http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/bushhoax.htm
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Tinfoil hat time.
That's the looniest pantload I ever heard.

:tinfoilhat:
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Tin foil hat time was a long time ago.
Now it's get your head out of your ass time.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. how about the naziamerican Democrats!
Did Kennedy/Johnson start Vietnam for some naziamerican reasons?

But FDR and Woodrow Wilson must have been the biggest naziamericans! ...oh wait

And don't forget that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington! only a naziamerican would hate America enough to fight King George!

:eyes:
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Did Kennedy/Johnson start Vietnam for some naziamerican reasons?
Sadly yes.

However these don't really have much in common with W's war. A basic knowledge of history would clear that up for you.



"But FDR and Woodrow Wilson must have been the biggest naziamericans! ...oh wait

And don't forget that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington! only a naziamerican would hate America enough to fight King George!"
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. The middle eastern hatred of America started long before W
And a lot of Democrats had their hands in it. We've been firmly entrenched in their internal affairs for the better part of a century.

The big reasons were money, oil, and the Soviet Union.

Or you could say it all started with the British and their imperialist desire to conquer those "brown savages".
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. 1958
"In that critical year, President Eisenhower and his staff discussed what he called the 'campaign of hatred against us' in the Arab world, 'not by the governments but by the people.' The basic reason, the National Security Council advised, was the perception that the US supports corrupt and brutal governments and is 'opposing political or economic progress' in order "to protect its interest in Near East oil.'"
---Noam Chomsky, Hegemony or Survival, p 214.

So, yes indeed, "middle eastern hatred of America started long before W". But can you share any policy since 1958 that reverses this trend? And can you announce any policy of GWB's that does not accelerate this trend?
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. his roadmap would help reverse the trend
I know the Iraq war just dumped gasoline on the situation. But a free Palestine would do more than anything else to help the situation. That and disengagement from their politics. Oil is only part of it. That's a very strategic area for military operations in Europe, Asia, and Africa.

We gotta get out of this place!
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NecessaryOnslaught Donating Member (691 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. Questions
Posted on Thu, Sep. 11, 2003
WHY DON'T WE HAVE ANSWERS TO THESE 9/11 QUESTIONS?

By WILLIAM BUNCH

bunchw@phillynews.com


NO EVENT IN recent history has been written about, talked about, or watched and rewatched as much as the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 - two years ago today.

Not only was it the deadliest terrorist strike inside America, but the hijackings and attacks on New York City's World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington were also a seminal event for an information-soaked media age of Internet access and 24- hour news.

So, why after 730 days do we know so little about what really happened that day?

No one knows where the alleged mastermind of the attack is, and none of his accomplices has been convicted of any crime. We're not even sure if the 19 people identified by the U.S. government as the suicide hijackers are really the right guys.

Who put deadly anthrax in the mail? Where were the jet fighters that were supposed to protect America's skies that morning? And what was the role of our supposed allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?

There are dozens of unanswered questions about the 2001 attacks, but we've narrowed them down to 20 - or 9 plus 11.

1. What did National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice tell President Bush about al Qaeda threats against the United States in a still-secret briefing on Aug. 6, 2001?

Rice has suggested in vague terms that the president's brief - prepared daily by the CIA - included information that morning about Osama bin Laden's methods of operation - including hijacking. But when the congressional committee probing Sept. 11 asked to see the report, Bush claimed executive privilege and refused to release it.

2. Why did Attorney General John Ashcroft and some Pentagon officials cancel commercial-airline trips before Sept. 11?

On July 26, 2001 - 47 days before the Sept. 11 attacks - CBS News reported that Ashcroft was flying expensive charters rather than commercial flights because of a "threat assessment" by the FBI. CBS said, "Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term." Newsweek later reported that on Sept. 10, 2001, "a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

Did either Ashcroft or the Pentagon have advance information about a 9/11-style attack and, if so, why wasn't this shared with the American public?

3. Who made a small fortune "shorting" airline and insurance stocks before Sept. 11?

On Sept. 10, 2001, the trading ratio on United Airlines was 25 times greater than normal at the Pacific Exchange, where traders could buy "puts," high-risk bets that the price of a company's stock will fall sharply. The next day, two hijacked United jetliners crashed, causing the company's shares to plummet and ultimately leading the airline into bankruptcy. CBS News later reported that at intelligence agencies, "alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market" on the day before the attacks.

The unusual stock trading suggests that someone with a sophisticated knowledge of finance also had advance information about the impending attack. But two years later, no one has been charged in this matter, and officials have not indicated even if the probe is still open.

4. Are all 19 people identified by the government as participants in the Sept. 11 attacks really the hijackers?

Probably not. Just 10 days after the attacks, a report by the British Broadcasting Corp. said that some of the supposed hijackers identified by the FBI appeared to be alive and well. The BBC story said Abdelaziz al-Omari, named as the pilot who crashed the jet into the World Trade Center's North Tower, was reported by Saudi authorities to be working as an electrical engineer. He reported his passport had been stolen in Denver in 1995. Saudi officials said it was possible that another three people whose names appear on the FBI list also are alive.

The article, which can be read at Unanswered Questions, makes a persuasive case that another man was posing as Ziad Jarrah, the alleged pilot of hijacked Flight 93, which crashed in Shanksville, Pa. So why did this story line vanish into thin air?

5. Did any of the hijackers smuggle guns on board as reported in calls from both Flight 11 and Flight 93?

Quite possibly. An internal Federal Aviation Administration memo written at 5:30 p.m. on the day of the attacks said that a passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 11 - Israeli-American Daniel Lewin - had been shot to death by a single bullet before the jet slammed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. The FAA insists the memo was a mistaken "first draft," even though the

alleged shooting is described in great detail.

Aboard Flight 93, passenger Thomas Burnett told his wife, Deena, in a 9:27 a.m. cell-phone call: "The hijackers have already knifed a guy, one of them has a gun, and they are telling us there is a bomb on board."

Why has this angle of Sept. 11 not been investigated in more detail?

6. Why did the NORAD air defense network fail to intercept the four hijacked jets?

During the depths of the Cold War, Americans went to bed with the somewhat reassuring belief that jet fighters would intercept anyone launching a first strike against the United States. That myth was shattered on 9/11, when four hijacked-jetliners-turned-into-deadly-missiles cruised the American skies with impunity for nearly two hours.

Why did the North American Aerospace Defense Command seem unaware of literally dozens of warnings that hijacked jetliners could be used as weapons? Why does NORAD claim it did not learn that Flight 11 - the first jet to strike the World Trade Center about 8:45 a.m. - had been hijacked until 8:40 a.m., some 25 minutes after the transponder was shut off and an astounding 15 minutes after flight controllers heard a hijacker say, "We have some planes..."?

Why didn't the fighters that were finally scrambled at Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts and Langley Air Force Base in Virginia fly at top, supersonic speeds? Why didn't fighters immediately take off from Andrews Air Force Base, just

outside Washington, D.C.? Why was nothing done to intercept American Airlines Flight 77, which struck the Pentagon, when officials knew it had been had been hijacked some 47 minutes earlier?

And why has no one been disciplined for the worst breakdown in national defense since Pearl Harbor?

7. Why did President Bush continue reading a story to Florida grade-schoolers for nearly a half-hour during the worst attack on America in its history?

In arguably the greatest understatement in U.S. history, Bush told a questioner at a California town-hall meeting in January 2002 that 9/11 "was an interesting day." Interesting, indeed. In the two years since the attacks, questions have only grown about the president's bizarre behavior that morning, when he was informed in a Sarasota classroom that America was under attack.

"I couldn't stop watching the president sitting there, listening to second-graders, while my husband was burning in a building," World Trade Center widow Lorie van Auken, a leader of relatives of Sept. 11 victims who have raised questions about the attacks, told Gail Sheehy in the New York Observer.

Why did Bush read a children's story about a pet goat and stay in the classroom for more than a half-hour after the first plane struck the World Trade Center and roughly 15 minutes after Chief of Staff Andrew Card told him that it had been a deliberate attack? Why didn't he take more decisive action, and why wasn't he hustled to a secure area while the attacks were clearly still under way?

Conspiracy advocates have cited these strange lapses as evidence that Bush knew about the attacks ahead of time, but why would anyone with advance knowledge appear so clueless?

For a fascinating read on the subject, go to: An Interesting Day.

8. How did Flight 93 crash in western Pennsylvania?

The most popular version - that heroic passengers who fought with the hijackers successfully stormed the cockpit - has become so widely accepted that people were jarred last month when an Associated Press report seemed to contradict it. The AP story took one line out of a congressional report and wrote that the FBI now believes the hijackers crashed the plane on purpose.

Many were dismayed that the FBI would change its story, but the government had never put out an official story. Some unidentified government officials had first floated the hijackers-crashed-the-plane-on-purpose theory in late 2001.

Based solely on circumstantial evidence from several cell-phone calls made by passengers, most of the public and the mainstream media have come to believe that the plane crashed because of a struggle between the passengers and the hijackers.

Meanwhile, the FBI reportedly has enough hard information about what really happened on Flight 93 to have worked up a flight-simulation video. But that video, the cockpit audio recording and the hard data from the other "black box," the flight data recorder, is still top secret.

The issue symbolizes the government's continuing refusal to release information about what really happened on Sept. 11. Even some relatives of Flight 93 victims are growing unhappy that more information has not been publicized.

9. Was Zacarias Moussaoui really "the 20th hijacker"?

Almost certainly not, even though the allegation has been repeated hundreds of times in the media. The Moroccan native, who has been in custody since his August 2001 arrest on immigration charges after he attended a flight-training school in Minneapolis, has admitted that he is a member of al Qaeda and wanted to commit terrorist acts in America. But he arrived here much later than the Sept. 11 hijackers and reportedly had no contacts with them.

The issue is important because some family members of Sept. 11 victims who are seeking information about what happened that day have been turned down because of the ongoing Moussaoui case.

10. Where are the planes' "black boxes"?

Nothing is more critical to learning about air disasters than the so-called "black boxes." They are the 30-minute audio recordings of cockpit chatter and the fight-data inputs which show the speed, direction and operational condition of the plane, and which are encased in material designed to withstand a high-speed crash. Yet the government has continued to keep a lid of secrecy on the black boxes from Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, and from Flight 93.

FBI Director Robert Mueller has said Flight 77's data recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contained nothing useful. Why not? Why not release the information to the public? Why has a docile mainstream media not demanded this information?

And how come none of the four "indestructible" black boxes was recovered from the World Trade Center, even as investigators said that a passport belonging to one of the hijackers had been found in the rubble, undamaged, a week after the towers's collapse?

11. Why were Donald Rumsfeld and other U.S. officials so quick to link Saddam Hussein to the attacks?

CBS News reported that the defense secretary was making notes about invading Iraq even before the fires from Flight 77 had been extinguished on the other side of the Pentagon. Rumsfeld wrote that he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." - Saddam Hussein - "at the same time. Not only UBL" - Osama bin Laden. He added: "Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

Rumsfeld and a number of other Bush administration officials have ties to a once-obscure policy group called the Project for a New American Century. In a 2000 white paper, PNAC - which had long urged an American invasion of Iraq - said that for the United States to assert itself properly as the world's lone superpower, "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" - would be required.

That new Pearl Harbor came - two years ago today.

12.Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse?

7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building, was not struck by an aircraft on Sept. 11, yet the building mysteriously collapsed at 5:20 p.m. that afternoon. Apparently debris from the jetliner attacks on the adjacent twin towers started a fire at No. 7. But as the New York Times noted: "No building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire." Investigators have speculated that excess diesel

fuel for emergency generators fanned the flames, but the full story may never be known.

Some questions also have lingered about why the two 110-story towers collapsed. But investigators think the burning jet fuel - compounded by paper-and-electronics-laden cubicles and possibly insulation matter - burned long enough, at temperatures exceeding 1,000 degrees, to weaken the structural steel.

13. Why did the Bush administration lie about dangerously high levels of toxins and hazardous particles after the WTC collapse?

Because apparently some White House officials felt that the health of the American economy and Wall Street was more important than the health of New York City residents who lived nearby. For example, on Sept. 16, 2001, a draft press release from the Environmental Protection Agency said: "Recent samples of dust gathered by OSHA on Water Street showed higher levels of asbestos in EPA tests." That was deleted and replaced with this: "The new samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern."

A key figure in the changes was the head of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, who - you can't make this stuff up - is a lawyer who formerly represented the asbestos industry.

In fact, the EPA told workers and residents that it was safe to return to lower Manhattan at a time when some test results had not been analyzed and other key tests had not even been performed. The outcome? Key medical professionals say thousands of New Yorkers have developed respiratory illnesses associated with exposure to the dust. Symptoms include periodic gasping for air, a choking sensation and unusual sensitivity to airborne irritants, apparently from a type of "occupational asthma" called Reactive Airways Disease Syndrome.

14. Where is Dick Cheney's undisclosed location?

We'll never know, but a widely reported rumor was that it was right here in the Keystone State. The speculation is the vice president spent the days after the attack at Site R, a secretive Cold War-era site, also known as Alternate Joint Communications Center, deep inside Raven Rock Mountain. The mountain is in western Pennsylvania, near Waynesboro.

15. What happened to the more than $1 billion that Americans donated after the attack?

The largest recipient, the American Red Cross, says it already has used $741 million from its Liberty Fund to help more than 55,000 families cope with the death of loved ones, serious injuries, physical and mental health concerns, financial loss, homelessness and other effects of the attacks.

Of that, $596 million was in the form of direct financial assistance to families of those killed or seriously injured, as well as to displaced workers, residents and emergency personnel who were seriously affected. Depending on individual needs, this financial assistance included up to a full year's living expenses, estate and special-circumstances cash grants, and more.

16. What was the role of Pakistan's spy agency in the Sept. 11 attacks and the subsequent murder of U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl?

The idea that Pakistan is considered a leading American ally in the war on terror is both ironic and a bit disturbing when one considers that there are proven links between Pakistan's intelligence agency, the notorious ISI, and the Taliban, as well as likely ties to al Qaeda and bin Laden.

In October 2001, the Wall Street Journal and many reputable news organizations in South Asia reported that the head of the ISI, Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad, was fired after being linked to a $100,000 payment that had been wired to al Qaeda hijacker Mohamed Atta in America to pay for the Sept. 11 attacks. The New York Times said the intelligence service even used al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan to train covert operatives for use in a war of terror against India.

In recent weeks, two troubling reports have emerged. The highly regarded French journalist Bernard-Henri Levy has written that Wall Street Journal reporter Pearl had been murdered by elements of the ISI because he'd learned that al Qaeda "is largely controlled by the Pakistani secret service" and that Islamic extremists control the nation's nuclear weapons. And investigative reporter Gerald Posner writes that bin Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah not only revealed a link to top Saudis but also to high-ranking Pakistani air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir. Mir, who is said to have cut protection deals in secret meetings with bin Laden, died earlier this year in a plane crash that also killed his wife and closest confidants.

17. Who killed five Americans with anthrax?

Actually, it's not clear whether this question should even be on this list. Two years later, it's not known whether the anthrax-laden letters that killed five Americans from Connecticut to Florida, and targeted some leading Democratic pols and TV news anchors, had anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed, the list of potential suspects - al Qaeda terrorists, Saddam, crackpot U.S. scientists - hasn't been narrowed down. Our government's utter cluelessness about a reign of terror that rattled the nation and dominated the headlines in fall 2001 is an investigative failure of epic proportions.

One man, a former Army biomedical researcher named Steven J. Hatfill, has been labeled "a person of interest" by the FBI, but nothing definitive has linked Hatfill to the crime. Just this summer, federal investigators drained a Frederick, Md., pond where they speculated the anthrax letters might have been assembled, but tests of soil samples taken after the draining yielded no evidence of biological weapons. And now Hatfill has sued the government for invading his privacy - in a case that may never be solved.

18. What happened to the probe into C-4 explosives found in a Philadelphia bus terminal in fall 2001?

Do you remember this front-page headline from Oct. 20, 2001: "In Phila. locker, a lethal find; Explosive 'would probably have leveled' bus depot." You can be forgiven if you don't. There's been no mention in local media since late 2001 of the alarming discovery of one-third of a pound of lethal C-4 and 1,000 feet of military detonation cord in a locker at the Greyhound bus terminal in Center City, even though it's possibly the most direct link between Philadelphia and domestic terrorism.

Investigators conceded a couple of months into their probe that the trail had gone stone-cold. They speculated that the material had been stolen from an Army base and that the culprit, who rented the locker on Sept. 29, 2001, decided that the material was too hot to handle after the Sept. 11 attacks. The truth may never be known.

19. What is in the 28 blacked-out pages of the congressional Sept. 11 report?

It's not a total mystery. Everyone has acknowledged that the pages contain highly embarrassing information about links between the Sept. 11 hijackers and the government of Saudi Arabia, America's supposed ally in the Middle East and home to the world's largest oil reserves. One of those officials is said to be Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar, whose wife, Princess Haifa, indirectly funded at least two of the Sept. 11 terrorists during their time in San Diego. The prince is so close to the Bush family that he's known, incredibly, as "Bandar Bush." This week, Time reports that just after the Sept. 11 attacks, when U.S. commercial airspace was still closed to our citizens, Bush allowed a jet to stop at 10 U.S. cities to pick up and fly home 140 prominent Saudis, including relatives of bin Laden.

A new must-read book by investigative reporter Posner - "Why America Slept" - takes the conspiracy to the highest of levels of the Saudi government. He says a top bin Laden lieutenant, Abu Zubaydah, who was captured in March 2002, stunned investigators when - allegedly given the "truth serum" sodium pentothal - fingered three top Saudis. They were Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, the Westernized owner of 2002 Kentucky Derby winner War Emblem; Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief, and Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir.

The most incredible part of the story is what happened next. In an eight-day period in late July 2002, Prince Ahmed died at age 43 from a heart attack, Prince Turki died in a car crash and Prince Fahd "died of thirst." Coincidence? What do you think?

20. Where is Osama bin Laden?

Remember how President Bush vowed on Sept. 17, 2001, that he was determined to catch bin Laden "dead or alive"? Well, the good news is that if he wants bin Laden "alive," there's still a chance that could happen. Intelligence experts now agree that bin Laden successfully escaped his Tora Bora hideout in Afghanistan back in December 2001 - when the U.S. failed to commit ample manpower to the chase - and that the al Qaeda leader is alive and well, and plotting new attacks.

"We don't know where he is," Army Col. Rodney Davis, spokesman for America's forces in Afghanistan, said recently. But Newsweek seems to know where to find bin Laden: in the remote, mountainous - and lawless - Kunar province of Afghanistan. The magazine chillingly reported that just five short months ago, bin Laden convened the biggest terror summit since Sept. 11 at a mountain stronghold there. The participants reportedly included three top-ranking representatives from the Taliban, several senior al Qaeda operatives and leaders from radical Islamic groups in Chechnya and Uzbekistan. The topic was carrying out attacks against U.S. interests inside Iraq.

The most chilling aspect of the Newsweek report is that bin Laden has access to biological weapons and is determined to find a way to use them against the United States. A source from the Taliban told the magazine: "Osama's next step will be unbelievable."

But this week, ABC News reported that the hunt for bin Laden has been narrowed to a different area - a 40-square-mile section of the Waziristan region of Pakistan. The report said that local residents suspected of trying to inform Americans about bin Laden's whereabouts were executed in broad daylight.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/6742902.htm?1c
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. There is no mention of aliens or a Jewish cabal?
Tom Nickel will be very disapointed.

He will probably be so depressed he will refuse to respond to your post and instead pretend that you are talking about aliens and witchcraft.
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NecessaryOnslaught Donating Member (691 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. We don't wanna disappoint tommy..
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Steve Beatty Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
51. I hear tin foil helps
Wear your tin foil hat like I do so they can't get into your mind!

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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. You have to be a total newb to think that was funny.
That was funny the first 9000 times we discussed it here. It was actually an inside joke amongst the skeptics here. We wear our foil with pride.

These days you either stock up on duct tape or tinfoil, take your pick.
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xocolatl Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
52. TomNickell, here's a link to 9/11 questions
Here's your link to 9/11 questions

Waiting for a response....

Waiting....

Waiting....

sound of crickets chirping
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
53. You have no evidence of what you just wrote BUT
the point is: The Bush Crime Family is capable of much worse things than simply plotting a routine terrorist attack like 9/11.

And right now, with Bush's numbers plummeting, his cabal is putting the final touches to something spectacular for August or September, which will kill thousands, maybe millions, and the survivors will be too scared to leave their homes to buy a loaf of bread, let alone to get out and vote.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
55. Oh NOOOOOOOOO
Your making us look bad to our enemies again. What if the freepers copy and paste this. (sarcasm)
Don't forget LIHOP and MIHOP. I'm MIHOP personally. Get the Saudi's to fund the terra-ists and sit in a Florida classroom so you'll have an alibi. :)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
56. Hear! Hear!!
It's the biggest assembly of corporate, religious and political con-men ever assembled to pull off the biggest heist ever.
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Suzi Creamcheese Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. Hilarious cartoon/gif
I love the way his eyes get real big as he goes over
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linkhead Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
58. the world is more abstract than americans think
Certain Nazi/Nationalist types around the world DID applaud the attack on the WTC,but this has little to do with Bushco.To think that there is only two ideologies in the world is madness.The world isnt conservatives vs liberals.Nazis/Nationalists hate conservatives/republicans/bush as much as they did or do Clinton/liberals/marxists.Islamic fundamentalists hate pan-arabists like Ghaddafi/Saddam/Baathists with the same amount of fervour.Nazis/Nationalists DO have connections/sympathies with the Ghaddafi/Saddam types and have gotten funding from them in the past......the Libyans have actively funded Nationalist/white supremacist groups in Australia/UK for example as they have similar aims........one a pan-arab nationalist state,the other,pan-european nationalist states....both with a fierce hatred of Jews and other minorities within these 'homogenous' nations.And the whole theory of 'homogenous' isolated nations goes against the very core of Capitalism/Free Trade.It goes against the core of Marxism,but for different reasons.

The world is complicated,with many different ideologies and it is rarely just us vs them.

And as for the posters mentioning the Turner Diaries-:

The type of third positionist ideology spouted in the Turner Diaries is as anti-conservative as it is anti-liberal.Towards the end of the book America is divided into three areas,the conservative North-West,the liberal East,and the nationalist/nazi south-west.To equate BushCo/Likuds/Conservatives with Nazism/Nationalism is as realistic as equating them with liberalism.McVeigh was not a conservative,he was a nationalist and nationalists are just as pleased when 'multicultural America' is hit hard whether it be a republican or democrat in office.The onl slight crossover comes between nationalists and paleo-conservatives like Buchanan who does in fact hold some 'third-positionist' feelings.His anti-israeli,anti-free trade and isolationist feelings make him the ONLY conservative who gets respect in nationalist circles.

It is good to know the state of world politics outside of the left/right American spectrum.This conservative vs liberal world view leaves out about 90% of the worlds ideology.It truly is never black or white.


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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
61. "not a pure breed Nazi but the deformed and hideous baby ..."
The American assassin is a different variety than history ever produced before. This mongrel is not a pure breed Nazi but the deformed and hideous baby produced from the marriage of Nazi General Reinhard Gehlen and his mistress, Allen Dulles' CIA. It has taken a long time to recognize just what is different about this creation whose birth followed a quickie ceremony immediately after World War II.

The parents, who had helped finance Adolph Hitler's ascendancy, and the agencies still longing for revenge and war against most of mankind, changed their domicile but not their habits. The nursery moved from Germany into the United States and Jamaica. When the TV cameras turn their lens away from the crowd or the hired man who is photographed holding a weapon, the wide view screen will show the chambers of Washington, New York and Montreal where the real American assassins shall be properly identified.

Europeans and some Americans who find the explanation of our assassinations hard to grasp have not yet recognized the species. Every time we are ready to change domestic and foreign policies through the electoral process, the candidate who would effect some better changes gets smashed. Once again that "withdrawn and unemployed failure" with "no ideological basis" manages to keep us back in the 19th century. Senator George McGovern called the alleged assassins "lone sociopaths." Any person who wishes to become President should be more familiar with the conspiratorial process.

If other parts of the world have their elaborate plots, none of them equaled our murders, attempted murders, or accidents. Master minds, experts for many years in illegal rearmament and political assassinations in Germany, combined agents and agencies with the U.S. The "Gehlen Organization" was financed by the CIA to the extent of $200,000,000 through Allen Dulles.
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Wh...
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