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The folks who are anti-politically correct bug the shit out of me.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:31 PM
Original message
The folks who are anti-politically correct bug the shit out of me.
Pretentious sons of guns aren'tcha? When I'm debating the use of a word or phrase with fellow DUers don't come in spouting that it's a waist of bandwidth OR there are more important things to debate. Who asked you?

I come to DU to learn and become a better person. DU has taught me to be more tolerant and to understand that my words and deeds have a great effect on my fellow human beings. If I use a phrase or have used an offensive phrase in the past and I see in DU that a majority of DUers find that phrase offensive, well that's good enough for me. I trust the intelligent folks here at this wonderful progressive forum and I learn from them. So please, when you come in and express concern about the metaphorical use of bandwidth, DON'T! because you're the one who will actually save it.
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Worst Username Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. There is such a thing as OVERLY politically correct....
When my part-time job as a driver delivering auto parts becomes titled "inventory transportation specialist," I am thinking they are going to far trying to not offend me for having a menial job...
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Don't confuse 'politically correct' with propaganda
Renaming janitors as 'maintenance engineers' and such is corporate propaganda, not a corporation trying to be 'politically correct'.

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jjmalonejr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Political Correctness and anti-Political Correctness...
...can both be taken to extremes.

Discussing what people find offensive shouldn't trouble anybody. If words or phrases you use are highly charged and likely to offend people just by your using them, it's helpful to know that. Usually when people use these words, they know exactly what they are doing and what reaction they are looking for, but not always. I don't see a problem with people bringing up which buzzwords and cliched phrases push their buttons. It's not the "PC Police" on patrol, it's all part of the dialogue.

By the same token, demonizing people who use language that you deem to be non-PC is going over the line. A lot of people have expressed a distaste for the use of the word "bitch," for example, but to assume that a person who uses the word is automatically a sexist and a misogynist and needs to be put in their place is going too far, in my opinion.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I won't automatically assume that someone who says bitch is
a sexist and a misogynist, but I will have to wonder about someone who, when informed over and over by countless others, that the word is sexist, continues to deny it and minimizes, invalidates, and denigrates the opinions of those who protest. THAT is when I will have a problem with that person.
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jjmalonejr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. No argument here
I agree, people who continue to push buttons when they know what pushing those buttons does are looking for a fight.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. They could just be talking about a female dog
or they could be talking about me. Either way, eh.

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put out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Well, maybe it could be pointed out to the person
using words such as "bitch", or "wussy", which is a handy combo of wimp and pussy, or "sissy", or "weak sister", or...fill in your own blank...is offensive to those whom it demeans, and no mistake, those words are. Maybe a lot of folks just don't think about their words that way. Maybe they should. If they think about these things, and still persist in using those words, well.

Oh well. Say whatever you chose. I will defend your right to say it, but expect to be called on it.

Who do you love, and what can I call them? What is precious to you about yourself, and how can I find something nasty to call it?
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jjmalonejr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. The words themselves aren't the problem, it's what's behind them.
I'm no Arnold fan and I believe that a governor ought to choose his words more carefully

To be fair, though, I don't think Arnold intended to send an anti-gay message using that phrase, he was just doing his usual stupid posturing. Notice that, although he won't apologize, he dropped the phrase "girly men" from his speech the next day.

Keep in mind, he may be a Republican, but he's probably the most pro-gay rights Republican governor in the country.

I'm loving the fact that he's under fire for this, but I'm personally cutting him some slack.

I think demanding an apology from Arnold to anyone who might feel offended by the phrase is overreacting. It cuts both ways. Remember all the heat Howard Dean took for his "guys with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks?" We all know that Howard didn't mean anything demeaning by this, but look at the beating he took over that.

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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yup.
The way I figure it is, most of them probably told a really racist or sexist joke at some point, got rightfully in trouble for it, and are now bitter.
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jjmalonejr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. That bitterness, though, is a result of backlash from PCism run rampant.
People who tell racist or sexist jokes don't always do it out of hate...they do it out of ignorance.

When the price they pay for ignorance is being smacked down with gusto, it's no surprise that they react badly.

There are better ways to educate than demonization of the "uninitiated".
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Pabst Blue Democrat Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't know if I'm anti-political correctness.....
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 05:57 PM by Pabst Blue Democrat
But words don't bother me. I'm not going to pretend to be outraged at something that I'm not. Now, if a person of a certain ethnicity gets slurred on, they have absolutely have the right to be angry....but if it doesn't bother them, I don't think it should bother anyone else.

I know I probably break from the pack here but it's just the way I feel. One of Bill Mahers "New Rules" was: No More Fake Outrage. I hear what he's saying.

*EDIT* I should note that despite my stance I'm not one to use terms that could be considered deragatory.

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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. So, if there is one black person who doesn't mind being called
a ni**er by a white person, then NO black people should mind being called ni**ers by white people?
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Pabst Blue Democrat Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thats not what I'm saying
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:29 PM by Pabst Blue Democrat
I'm talking about going overboard with PC. I don't think that the fact that using the n-word is a bad thing to do needs to be debated here. I figure something like that should go without saying around here.

I'm talking about nit-picking cases. I find no need to get upset if somebody says "black," instead of African-American, or "white" instead of Caucasian.

Does anyone remember Howard Cossell? He was a Monday Night Football commentator. He was fired because he referred to a player on the field as a "little monkey." If you've seen and heard the clip, it is quite obvious that Cossell was not using a racial slur, he was referring to the way that the player had been moving on the field. He was fired nonetheless. For what? The man was not a racist. Perhaps the people who should feel bad here are the ones who cannot hear a name of an animal without assuming that it's being used to describe a certain racial group.


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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Bill Maher is the King of fake outrage
When is he going to stop with the rants?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Uh.... In case you haven't noticed,
a good chunk of Maher's rants are directed at the current Occupant of the White House. And they're spot-on.

I'm not sure where all the loathing of Bill Maher comes from. Seems to me he's intelligent, articulate, funny as hell, and is absolutely no friend to Bush, Ashcroft, the Republicans or their Theocratic, Fundamentalist allies. Personally, I can't wait for the guy's new shows.
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree. I never equated "girlie-man" with sexism until today.
I first jumped to the gay thing.

I was wrong.
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. I actually kind of agree with you...
Although I think PC can be a bit much, who's to say you shouldn't be discussing it? I think it's great for people to debate whether whatever form of expression is appropriate or not, and nobody should attack them for it.

But in a case like the flap over Gropernator's girlie-man joke, I do wish that the self-appointed PC police would think these things out a bit before they start holding press conferences to decry his statement,

Keuhl's indignant response will likely hurt the democrats more than help with the public, and all over a very trivial joke. There are SOOO many really important things to attack him on (Enron!) and yet our representatives use up a media cycle and political on THIS?

I don't think any topic should be off-limits here, but in the world of the sound-bite, where even a little slip of the tongue can help sink legislation, democratic politicians really need to pick their battles.
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jdonaldball Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. I am offended by anti-anti-correct, um, I mean anti-pro-anti
um, correct anti pro. Correct?
Who am I offended by?
I got lost.
Sorting this out is like a bizarre alegbra equation.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. well, it depends on the specifics
There are some people that get offended by the silliest little things, and then go on to insult a whole group of people with the grossest stereotypes. So-called "lefties" can be just as insulting to groups as the right, they just choose different groups to belittle and insult.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. you gotta be kidding me
What did you do with the real trumad that's been here for the last 3 odd years?
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Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Know what offends me?
Political correctness.
Anything that is designed to limit the free expression of ideas strikes me as silly.
Should people say "nigger?" Should gays be called "fags?" Is everyone a Wop, Spick, Chink, Gook, Wetback, Broad...? Of course not. That's just common sense and civility. It's rude, it's hurtful. I mentioned this in an early thread, if we can't get past a few words, we will never become a colorblind society. We're being taught to tip-toe around serious racial questions. It's a bad move. I am not pretentious, I just think these sorts of taboos do more harm than good.
P.S. And on another note, I also don't believe "bitch" or "gyp" is inherently offensive. A word's meaning is entirely in the ear of the beholder, and generally the speaker's intention is to convey a <i>common definition</i>, rather than it's original definition. Yes, yes, yes I KNOW the term "gyp" started as slang for gypsy, CLEARLY that wasn't the definition the speaker had in mind, THE ONLY DEFINITION THAT MATTERS.
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. This the preachy element of this discussion that galls me
"but I will have to wonder about someone who, when informed over and over by countless others, that the word is sexist,.."


That's your opinion, which is fine for you to have. Pardon me if I don't accept it. This is the element of 'PC' that makes me gnash my teeth.

You, nor whatever goddam committee, does NOT get to decide what is sexist, homophobic, etc language.

The irony is thick when people bitch about labels and do the same goddam thing themselves.

:grr:

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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Then expect to get a whole boatload of shit everytime
you say it. Despite what you say, I DO get to decide what is sexist to ME. Many other women here on DU have called it the same way as I have. If we tell you it is sexist, you are free to discard that. But you will hear from us over and over and over because we WILL NOT SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!!! So if that's too PC for you, fine. Irony, my ass.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. "that's good enough for me"
then constructive "thought" is out then?

oh and define "majority"

not slamming you pal. we have our own opinions

too bad they can't be "adult conversations anymore"
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Am I anti-PC? (warning, rant)
Hardly.

As has already been said, too much of a good thing isn't good. Being overly-PC will only antagonize people away from it.

Arnold's comments were definitely sexst and possibly homophobic. I am not arguing that, for that's the truth and it's rather obvious too.

But people had been blatently ignoring the basic fact that it's immature, especially for people in purportedly noble positions of power.

Indeed, the "i" word has more power to convince than the "s" and "h" words because it does NOT sound overly PC. The "i" word is succinct and to the point and hits home hard and fast. By contrast, the "s" and "h" words are pedantic semantics that make those who say it pretentious.

What sounds better? Saying "Arnold S. made an immature remark, this should not be tolerated by people in such positions." OR whining "Arnold S. made homophobic and sexist remarks, we can't do anything except whine the fact, wah wah wah!" Obviously the former phrase packs a punch whereas the latter one. Sheesh, the Dems were just as ditzy with Cheney's effenheimer as well. Yes, I'm angry at these toddlers in power, but our Dems seem to be matching the Romper Room behavior. Enough is cheneying enough! When the people making such bigotry and swearing have the nerve to fine television broadcast stations for saying the word "fuck" (while ignoring FOX News showing a still graphic of two people fucking, no less), things are out of control. We cannot beat them by acting just like them. Not for this issue!

And if people who yammered against me in my post don't understand this by now, well that's not my fault.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well, I'm pissed that
you want to flirt with lesbians, but don't want to flirt with ME!!!!

Cad!!!!
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. i want to "do" you "babe"
Note: the above sexist references are 100% intentional and are meant to "turn" you on in a Saturday Night Fever sort of way"

:P
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:loveya:

and fuck those idiots in the Lounge.

what would we do without Matcom News?????
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mellowinman Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Has anyone ever read the FOX "PC Patrol"
or "tongue tied" rants? They consistently come up with ridiculous "anti-PC" examples.

They're latest was about how we SHOULDN'T be offended by a White comedian in Blackface, but we SHOULD be offended by the Wayans brothers in "White Chicks."

The FIRST is offensive, because it harkens back to an age old tradition of White people painting their faces Black and then acting out stereotypical roles.

The SECOND is offensive because its just a bad movie, and horrifying to look at.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some highlights of FOX's "Tongue-Tied."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,109445,00.html

A group of high school students in Omaha, Neb., who nominated a South African student for a "Distinguished African-American Student" award were disciplined for what was described by administrators as an "inappropriate and insensitive" act, reports the Omaha World Herald.

Administrators at Westside High School said the award should only go to a black student. A student who later circulated a petition complaining about the racism inherent in that policy also was punished by the school.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113506,00.html

A Canadian legislator who accidentally sent a Happy India Day card to an aboriginal group is paying dearly for the mistake, reports Toronto's Globe and Mail.

Conservative Stephen Harper sent a letter of apology to the Ontario Federation of Indian Friendship Centres after he sent them a card in celebration of the day in 1950 when India's constitution took effect, cementing its independence from British rule. Harper blamed a clerical error for the gaffe.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123199,00.html

A bank branch on the high-crime south side of Chicago is accused of being racist because it requires customers to go through a metal detector on their way into the building, reports ABC7.

Protesters are demanding an apology and that the magnetometer be removed from the Bank One branch at 81st and South Cottage Grove.

The Rev. Michael Pleger of Saint Sabina Catholic Church called the situation, "pure racism, racial profiling, black while banking, it's stereotyping, it's sending every negative message you can send."

State Sen. Jacqueline Collins agreed.

"When Bank One only enacts such restrictive access and displays such offensive signage within this African American community, then this policy becomes demeaning, disrespectful, and discriminating," she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125315,00.html

Officials in a Florida city were forced to blur the image of a Confederate flag from a TV commercial for the city's annual Celebrate America festival following complaints from one local resident, reports the Tallahassee Democrat.

The ad, which featured scenes from a music video by country artist Mark Wills, showed the singer climbing out of the car from the Dukes of Hazard (search), which has the flag painted on its roof. City officials blurred the flag in versions of the ad that appeared after the complaint.

In a letter to the paper, local resident Lorian Miles said she was offended by the image. "While some view the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern pride, the vast majority of people view it as a symbol of the South's racist past," she wrote.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126082,00.html

A budget approved for fiscal 2004-2005 includes some 122 job cuts, including 40 faculty positions and reduced library hours. School officials say they are working hard to preserve their core academic mission.

Not to worry, though. There will be spending increases in some areas.

There may not be money for libraries, but there is money for an annual Native American celebration, coordinators for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community and multi-ethnic student affairs programs and for repairs and programs at the Trotter Multicultural Center (search).

--------------------------------------------

People, is there no END to the indignities White Rich motherfuckers must suffer? I don't know how we survive! To think that still having every social and economic advantage forty years after Civil Rights is accompanied by the HORRIBLE things I posted above...

Yes, I'm sarcastic about Political Correctness.

Let's go back to the days when a baby conceived out of wedlock was a BASTARD and a woman who had sex with more than one partner was a SLUT and a person of Chinese descent was a...

Are you getting the idea yet?

The concept of Political Correctness is sound. Its abuse is usually more silly or annoying than harmful.

But the alternative was GENUINELY HARMFUL.

Like, DUH, are you a bunch of RETARDS????

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. Can you give an example of what you're talking about? nt
nt
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