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Who thinks that the phrase "girlie man" is sexist?

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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:18 PM
Original message
Poll question: Who thinks that the phrase "girlie man" is sexist?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it was stupid
But i'm not sure it was sexist.

It's hard to track, because when the original Hanz and Franz it was part of a comedic character. We weren't really supposed to admire them so much, but to laugh at them. In that sense, the Girlie man comment was just another part of the wierd way those two characters looked at women and men and so on and so forth. But it certainly wasn't intended as something admirable.

When Governor Terminator appropriates that language what does he mean by it? It's possible, and indeed possible, that the humorous dialogue of Hanz and Franz loses its ironic content in his mouth, and he means the words quite literally, in which they are a bit sexist (and or homophobic).

Irony makes life confusing.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think it's just stupid
And Schwarzenegger using it just demonstrates his complete intellectual bankruptcy.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. I said yes because I saw that Nostjam commics..oops did not bump..
that showed the 'gender police'...you man...put down that baby..you woman..take off those pants and put on a skirt...DISBURBING...yet I can laugh because it is not real YET!!!!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. sexist and homophobic
Instead of asking for an apology we ought to use that phrase to show Republican's male superiority thinking, and/or inferiority complex, that they have to use degradation instead of debating the issues.
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Sexist, yes. Homophobic, no.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Really?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 03:34 PM by sandnsea
Gay men aren't slandered by using effeminate terminology??? Straight men aren't slandered by referring to them with gay references??? News to me.
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No one has called them gay, just effeminate.
We don't have to make that inductive leap.

If you do you buy into the gay stereotype.
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. that is the stereotype that homophobes buy into
They think calling someone girly is calling them gay. What stereotype the listener may or may not hold is not what is important.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Thank you. Exactly n/t
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. If Arnie had said "Little girlie-gay-men!" I would agree 100%.
If Arnie had said "homo-girlie-men" I would agree 100%. But he did not. He called them "girlie-men". Assuming he also meant "gay" because he called them "girlie" is as reactionary as the stereotype is prejudiced. You are essentially saying that he is homophobic based on what you think he thinks, and that's just not right.

Sexist? Yes. Homophobic? No.
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. not all of us need to be hit on the head with a hammer
to know we have been attacked.
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PeaceForever Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
55. Good point
Go to a gay night club sometime, and you'll see lots of guys there who are built.

I'm not saying the majority of gay guys are like that, but a significant percentage of them do not fit the effeminate stereotype.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Amen, sandnsea.
Just the idea that men are "degraded" by having female characteristics is a slap at women, and the term is sexist and homophobic.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. its actually more homophobic than sexist.
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Misinformed01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. only a no account panty waist would
use that expression.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Who thinks the sky is blue?
Any insult which is insulting *because* it implies the target possess feminine traits is by definition sexist.

Same goes for masculine traits, of course, but really, how common is that here? It's prevalent in Muslim countries for women who are perceived as masculine to be stigmatized - I wonder if they have slurs for women with masculine qualities.
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Stupid and immature.
But not all that sexist, since he's riffing on a skit. If he had seriously called the opposition a bunch of "pussies" or "fags", it would have been pretty offensive, but he's riffing off a skit that actually MADE FUN OF ARNOLD himself...
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Stupid thing for a politician to say.
And juvenile for an adult to say. Arnie sounds like a seventh grader.


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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Tucker Carlson just ridiculed complaints that it was insensitive
with advice including, "Ignore the feminists..."


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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Oh now that's telling, isn't it?!
Nothing to see here, little ladies... move along... be glad you're not in a fundie Muslim country, shut up and take your 75% OR LESS pay home to feed your kids.

:puke:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Fuck insensitive
It's rude and it's hateful. And it's the kind of thing children do when they know they can't argue the facts.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. GIRLIE MAN????? they want to talk about a GIRLIE MAN!!!
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
62. A problem of impugning on others to minimize ones own failures is obvious
Just as long as they don't let arnie sing the during the Super Bowl :P



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CXD...
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. SEXIST?
NO

JUVENILE?

YES

:eyes:
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Trying to insult a man by calling him "woman-like"
As if women were inferior?

Assuming women are inferior?

Sounds sexist to me. IMHO.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. sure
if you TAKE it as an insult.

guarantee you people pissed off about it now from Arnold the Politician, were laughing their asses off in the 80's every time that Saturday Night Live skit aired with Arnold the "non-politician"

this is getting rediculous

I call Tom Daschle a "Pink-TUTU-Democrat" as do many others.

Guess I am a homophobe sexist motherfucker too.

oops! motherfucker makes me a incest worshiper!


or, i hate my mom. HEY! maybe i am gay and secretly LUST after my father?!!?

:crazy:
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Are you telling me I can't wear my pink tutu anymore?
Now I'm pissed.
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Why is this so hard to understand?
If I called a white guy a N****r to insult him, would you say it wasn't racist?
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. i would say you were a Moran for using the wrong racial slur
:eyes:
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. I wouldn't care
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 06:10 PM by TeacherCreature
consider the source.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. It isn't sexist...it's homophobic.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. No David...it's also sexist...
because it puts men down for being like girls...as if being like a girl is a bad thing.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. I don't see it that way...
...if I were to call someone a "girly man", I'd be insulting HIM, not women.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. But why is it an insult to him?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 04:03 PM by VelmaD
What is it about calling a man a girly-man that makes it an insult? The man part? I don't think so. It's calling him "girly" that is the insult. So girly=bad.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. It's fine for women to be girly, but not men. (In Arnold's tiny mind)
Either way, it was a wholly unprofessional thing to say, unbecoming an (howver dubiously) elected official.
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. sexist against men and women.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 03:46 PM by rbnyc
It demeans women by insinuating that female characteristics are bad. It demeans men by enforcing the idea that it's wrong for men to act outside their traditional gender role.

EDIT: It's homophobic by extension, as the idea of gender betrayal is the root of homophobia.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Well said
You summed it all up very nicely. Thank you.
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks. (nt)
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. In real life, Ahhnold uses the F-git word....
and would have invited the democrats to 'suck me.' That filthy piece of crap has not changed one bit. Maria, Maria....you are the lowest or the lowest stepford wife on earth. You fully support that criminal, nazi husband of yours. Uncle JFK must be turning in his grave.
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dr.strangelove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. Immature yes, sexist no
I don't think its sexist.
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put out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. I do.
It was clearly meant as an insult. He's all put out that some legislators are not complying with his proposals for the budget. "Girly-man". Alright then, being a female means weakness? Or is it that attributing stereotypical "feminine" attributes, especially to a man, constitutes weakness? Why would calling someone "girly" be sexist? For the very same reason calling someone "sissy" is sexist. It implies that women are weak, to be derided and not to be emulated.

It speaks of a mind that is insistently rigid where matters of gender are concerned, and anger when those perceived boundaries are violated. Girls are this, and this only, and boys are that, and that only.

And, in my opinion, also speaks of fear. I don't care what kind of muscles he drugged himself into. He's little.

By the way, he wasn't quoting himself. He was quoting a PARODY of the act that is his life, as portrayed by a mindless, half-wit, testosterone addled pair of brothers on SNL.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Oh pish posh! Why get HYSTERICAL* about it?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 04:03 PM by redqueen
Face it, ladies... this shit is so deeply ingrained into this culture than even many liberals will go to their graves not 'getting it'.

I just hope it's at least a little better for my daughters.

* Look up the etymology of that word, if you don't already know.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I know what you mean.
It drives me NUTS to see guys that I know are basically good guys who seem to be intentionally obtuse on this one issue. *sigh*
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. When I first saw the word hysterical...
...I got so pissed. Then I saw it was you, so I knew what you meant. I don't see what's so hard to undersatand. When kids use the word gay to mean bad or stupid, it's homophobic. And when people use the word girlie, or pussy or call men ladies in order to put them down, it's sexist.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it either
It makes me very sad.

Sorry for making you angry. It's just that I know there are probably many people out there who don't know the history of that word. IMO it's no better than 'gypped' or 'jewed' or any other of the awful words that we've accepted are wrong.
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. No worries. I just read the subject line...
...and thought the person didn't realize what they were saying. But when I saw it was you, I know you were making a very good point.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
39. I don't care - it was surreal-ly hilarious (clarification inside)
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 04:12 PM by Selwynn
No it is not appropriate for a governor to say something like that. Yes, the phrase is not a nice one - it is more homophobic than sexists, with its implication of "effeminite" qualities, usually the stereotypes of gay men and such.

However, when my friend instant messaged me with the story this morning, I laughed out loud at work. Why? Becuase I don't care about offensive language? No. But becuase it is just bizarrely funny. Never in my life would I imagine that I would have an Arnold governor and get to hear something I thought I would only here on a Saturday night Live skit.

It is just surreal, and yeah sometimes you just have to laugh. So I did. A lot. :)
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. It's homophobic, because of context.
It's homophobic because of the context. When someone calls someone a 'girlie man' they aren't saying 'girls are inferior to men', they are really saying to them 'You're acting like a gay guy' (the stereotypical version -- effeminate). Straight guys often use that term to insult other straight guys.

I can see how it can be construed to be sexist, and I suppose to some degree it could be, but because of its context it's certainly aimed at being more homophobic.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Oh goodie, let's play divide and conquer...
Can we not just acknowledge that it is both sexist and homophobic and that both sexism and homophobia come out of the same mindset. I've met very few sexists who weren't also homophobes and vice versa.
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. I agree, that he likely has a sexist mindset...
Considering the "rumors" about how he's treated women. I believe that speaks for itself. Still, the remarks are more homophobic than anything else, and yes I agree people who are usually bigoted toward one group generally are also bigoted toward others. It's not an effort to divide and conquer, but rather to put things into context.

The reason I pointed it out was because the original post didn't have homophobic listed.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. thank you! n/t
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. That's exactly right.
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
47. Sexist..... hmmmm, No.
He has the maturity of a 12 year old, what do you expect?
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
48. I think I hit an effing nerve.
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
49. He was making a stupid little joke...
I seriously doubt he said it to denigrate women or homosexuals. I would think us progressives would have much more important mattters to worry about.

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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I agree. Football camp is only a week away.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. You know I really love these threads.
If nothing else they let us know who we can really count on when push comes to shove.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Notice the percentage of those who don't 'get it' is increasing?
*sigh*
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. That is it in a nutshell.
Sometimes people here surprise me. These kinds of threads really seem to bring out the worst in folks. I don't understand why some just don't get it, but what makes it worse is that they also insist on telling us that we're wrong. They don't get it, so we are simply wrong. Perfectly logical, ain't it? :eyes:

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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
53. A put-down, based on sex. How could that NOT be sexist?
:wtf:


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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Stunning...
isn't it?
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CHestonsucks Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
58. Sexist? Probably,
and that's because Repugnicans tend to be sexist, patriarchal, and two-dimensional which this comment only serves to underscore. I think it's intended effect was to get under the Democrat's skin. Sort of like me going public and calling Shwarzenegger a "talentless Austrian douchebag", which would be an affront to hacks, Austrians, and douchebags everywhere.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Well, I'll never let an insult to douchebags go unchallenged!!
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 04:54 PM by bunnyj
Take this, Arnold!



Welcome to DU, CHestonSucks! :toast:
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
61. It is absolutely sexist. "Enron Arnie" obviously thinks women are inferior
to men. He's an ignorant, sexist, homophobic bigot that is completely unqualified to be the governor of California.

The people of California should recall him ASAP.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
63. Arnold's actions aren't worthy of someone in a prestigious position,
Sexist but highly immature. Why isn't the media attacking the gorilla? They're hyping up 'homophobic' and 'sexist', but to simply say 'immature' and 'not worthy of someone in such a prestigious position' would be FAR MORE EFFECTIVE.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. It's beyond sexist. It's MISOGYNISTIC!
Arnie has complete contempt for womankind. No one remembers how he treated Arianna Huffington at that debate????

What about the female legislators who oppose his plans???

In Arnold's mind, they don't even exist. He complained about the girlie-men, but said nothing about the women in the legislature. They didn't even merit consideration to the pig!

He has insulted America's daughters, sisters and mothers by equating the feminine with a negative trait. I'm not even sure what the hell the negative trait is supposed to be! Is it that the legislators are obstinate? foolish? stupid? politically weak because they won't cut benefits for children, the elderly and the handicapped? That's a "girlie" trait?

The people of California should be outraged. Those on DU who fail to see the problem with this PIG (he no longer gets to be called a man by me) should examine themselves to make sure they aren't part of the problem.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Yep! n/t
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
67. Yes, the inference that
somehow being 'girlie' in the least is a bad thing, as a woman I find very insulting. When you compare a man to a woman in that kind of way it implies that being a female is being lesser. A woman being compared to a man is usually meant as a compliment but comparing a man to a woman who even worse a girl is meant as an insult, this shows something very wrong about our society. :argh: :mad: :grr:
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