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David Barton of Wallbuilders to preach to the pastors for smirk (GOP)

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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:38 PM
Original message
David Barton of Wallbuilders to preach to the pastors for smirk (GOP)

Wallbuilders?

http://www.registerguard.com/cgi-bin/printStory.py?name...

The Republican National Committee is bringing a religious conservative lecturer to Eugene on Tuesday for a speech to area pastors about their rights and responsibilities in political activity and Christianity's role in America's founding.

The speaker, David Barton, is the head of a group called Wallbuilders and the second-highest ranking GOP official in President Bush's home state of Texas.

-snip-

Barton's keynote address at noon Tuesday at Eugene's Willamette Christian Center was scheduled after a staffer with the Republican National Committee contacted Oregon religious leaders to solicit interest in having Barton appear there, said Steve Buss, a member of the Eugene church's ministry staff.

-snip-

Buss said his church agreed to host Barton after RNC staffer Drew Ryan assured him that the appearance "is not discussing a partisan agenda. It's not promoting any candidate."
-snip-
------------------------------------

LOL

catch this:

"The event has been closed to the news media."

poor Steve Buss was snuckered
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tax the fucker
A former philosophy professor (and a Baptist minister!) spent a day in class ripping apart Barton and his acid dream that America was founded as a "Christian" nation (ie theocracy).
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've heard him speak
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:43 PM by Frodo
He's compelling. Almost hypnotizing. I still haven't found rebuttals to some of his points.

How does one determine whether he is speaking as a RNC official or as an officer for some "non-partisan non-profit"?

There may be tax implications to the answer.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. see my post about the southern baptist rebuttal
I too have seen one of his presentations and have heard about others.

If you go into one unprepared, he overwhelms ....... with quotes, etc.........many not correct.
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I can't get to that link
at least at work.

But I don't think they're just misunderstanding the "orthodox" comment. About that percentage did belong (officially at least) to what Barton would consider "orthodox" Christianity (by church records or - in many cases - by their seminary degrees). Baptists, however, do not consider Presbyterians or Anglicans (the majority I think) to be "orthodox". And, of course, "Orthodox" to most of us refers not to "traditiona christians" but to those Eastern churches who CALL themselves "Orthodox". He's pretty close if the alternative position is "deist" which is the common argument.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wallbuilders told the IRS it was an "education" charity!
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 01:46 PM by AirAmFan
I googled "Wallbuilders" and found a website at http://www.wallbuilders.com . Contact info for Wallbuilders gave zip code 76008. I then did a "zipcode only" search at http://www.guidestar.org/search/index.jsp .

I got 27 hits, including one that matched the Wallbuilders.com address perfectly. At a minimum, going through the other 26 hits would be required to ensure access to all relevant Wallbuilders financial info online at guidestar. But here's the first "hit" :
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From http://www.guidestar.org/controller/searchResults.gs?ac...

WALLBUILDER PRESENTATIONS
PO Box 397
Aledo, TX 76008

Education

EIN: 75-1627779

This organization files an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ. It is a 501(c)(03) public charity. Information in this report is derived from IRS From 990, 990-EZ, or 990-PF, an annual report filed by nonprofit organizations.

Financial Snapshot for Fiscal Year Ending 2002
Revenue: $659,938
Expenses: $800,473
Assets: $1,238,512
Liabilities: $18,325

The 1997 through 2002 Forms 990 Wallbuilder Presentations filed with the IRS to keep its tax exemption are online at Guidestar. The URL for the 2002 form is http://documents.guidestar.org/2002/751/627/2002-751627... .
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. DAVID BARTON- DAVID BARTON........we need to monitor this guy
He is the leading promoter of the idea that the US was created to be a 'christian' nation. He has many books and videos promoting this view and attacking the 'liberal myth' that there should be separation of church and state.

One site attacking his credentials and evidence

http://www.buildingequality.us/ifas/fw/9606/barton.html
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. also check this link
http://www.livingston.net/wilkyjr/link28.htm

The constitutional principle of separation of church and state has given Americans more religious freedom than any people in world history. Around the globe, those suffering under the heavy heel of government-sponsored religious oppression look to America's church-state model with longing. The "wall of separation between church and state" is America's bulwark of true religious liberty.

Despite its proven track record of success, separation of church and state is increasingly becoming just another target for the Religious Right's smear campaign strategists. In the past few years, an entire cottage industry has sprung up in Religious Right circles that seeks to "prove" that mainstream history is all wrong. The United States was really founded to be a fundamentalist Christian nation. Separation of church and state was never intended; it was, these far-right activists allege, foisted on the country by the Supreme Court in recent times.

The Religious Right's leading practitioner of this type of historical revisionism is David Barton, who runs an outfit called WallBuilders out of Aledo, Texas.1 Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it.

.....


Barton has no legitimate credentials as an historian, and it shows. Shoddy research, astounding lapses of logic and outright errors are hallmarks of his work. For his first book, America: To Pray Or Not To Pray? (1988), Barton reports that God ordered him to go to the library and look into the connection between the removal of state-mandated prayer in public schools by the Supreme Court in 1962 and 1963 and the drop in SAT scores. "I didn't know why," Barton writes in the book's introduction, "but I somehow knew that these two pieces of information would be very important."6

more...
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. southern baptist analysis of many of Barton's false claims
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/bjcpa1.htm

Critique of David Barton's "America's Godly Heritage"
This article is a production of the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs. Please copy and distribute the article. However, the information contained in this article cannot be modified without the express written permission of the Baptist Joint Committee. If this article is transmitted or duplicated, it must include this message.
HOMEPUBLICATIONS
BAPTIST JOINT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC AFFAIRS
bjcpa@bjcpa.org 6/18/1996




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Barton, in his taped presentation called America's Godly Heritage, peddles the proposition that America is a "Christian Nation," legally and historically. He also asserts that the principle of church-state separation, while not in the Constitution, has systematically been used to rule religion out of the public arena, particularly the public school system. This is not a new argument, but Barton is especially slick in his presentation. His presentation has just enough ring of truth to make him credible to many people. It is, however, laced with exaggerations, half- truths, and misstatements of fact. His citation to supporting research is scant at best and at times non-existent.

This booklet contains a short critique of some of the major points that Mr. Barton raises.


1

Barton claims that 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were "orthodox" Christians and many were "evangelical Christians."

Barton does not cite any authority to support this assertion. Indeed, the weight of scholarly opinion is to the contrary.

much more....
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. another discussion of Baron's 'interesting' use of quotes
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Barton's website on 10 commandments and black history
and comparing rep and dem platforms on 4 'key Biblical principles'

http://www.wallbuilders.com/
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. spending so much time on this because I've watched
the last 10+ years as Barton and the relious right have rewritten American history

if you live someplace like Tulsa, you too have heard a great many people say matter-of-factly 'well, America was founded on christian Biblical principles.....we just have to vote for the party and candidates which will restore the views of the founders.'

this stuff is SCARY.........and a surprisingly large number of educated people have been at least to some extent convinced by the misuse of quotes and documents by Barton and his 'fans'

we need to be prepared to challenge with documentation whenever this view is presented
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. I hope no sane left-wing Pastors go there except to talk sense into ppl
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