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The Australian: Mossad's litany of blunders

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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:10 AM
Original message
The Australian: Mossad's litany of blunders
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 07:19 AM by gandalf
The Australian, "Australia's National Daily Newspaper"

Mossad s litany of blunders, By Abraham Rabinovich
July 19, 2004

THE frequency with which Israel's vaunted Mossad has been caught out by foreign governments - last week's jailing of two alleged agents for trying to acquire New Zealand passports being the most recent example - reflects the hyperactivity of a small nation engaged on a global front.

In 1997, just three years after Israel signed an historic peace agreement with Jordan, a botched Mossad attempt to murder the head of terrorist group Hamas on the streets of Amman by spraying a lethal fluid into his ear almost terminated diplomatic relations. A furious King Hussein threatened to send troops into the Israeli embassy, where Mossad agents had taken shelter.

snip

Now, New Zealand has suspended diplomatic relations with Israel after the conviction of two men, Elisha Cara and Uri Kelman, for attempting to acquire New Zealand passports illegally.

---

Obviously, not all John le Carr novels are based purely on fiction...
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. And Israel's Foreign Minister Blames
New Zealand for the icy relationship over this.
I find it fascinating that Israel steals (or attempts to steal) secrets from their allies -- Pollard in the US is one example, but they are never held accountable and the Isrealis blame the other country every time.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't suppose
the term "alleged" means much to you?
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. "Alleged": After all, these two men were sentenced
Of course, neither the two men nor Israel would ever admit that these men were Mossad employees. Perhaps they are only ordinary criminals, perhaps they are not, we will never know for sure.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. But still only alleged to be Mossad
Could be organized crime for all we know.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think the Australian and NZ intelligence services know more than you do.
Wouldn't you agree? ;)

Violet...
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah, the world reknown NZ intel network
Maybe or maybe they are just mistaken. Happens to the intel networks of all nations.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh, yr familiar with NZ and Aust intelligence organisations??
Care to fill everyone in on yr in-depth knowledge of them, seeing you were so quick to be so sarcastic about NZ?

Maybe you should read the article before trying to comment any further. Mossad has a history of trying to carry out stunts that backfire. Why are you so determined to act as though this isn't another case?

Sorry, but I tend to believe both ASIO and whatever NZ intelligence is called carry a lot more credibility than you do :)

Violet...
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Isn't everyone
After all, they are known as the world's best...

;)
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I can safely take that as a no...
I've not once heard of instances of muddleheaded blunders and violating the sovereignty of friendly states like Mossad has done. Why? Have you?

Violet...
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. When Australia is invaded and surrounded by enemies
And attacked every day, that will be the real test of how good their intel and military are. Until then, it's an academic argument only.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. What's that got to do with anything?
Intelligence organisations are to be scoffed at and treated like they're a joke unless they're 'invaded and surrounded by enemies and attacked every day'? Okay, that was funny! ;)

Violet...
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Before you go slamming NZ Intel
The New Zealand Government is part of the ANZUS Alliance (Australia, New Zealand and the United States). ANZUS is our second most important alliance behind NATO.
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I think one can subsume some activities of Mossad...
(and many other intelligence agencies) under organized crime...
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. For example, CIA and cocaine trafficking n/t
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Based on the way Israel has handled this incident...
and past incidents where their people have been caught -- Alleged means "NOTHING!" The spin they've put on this is the exact same spin they've put on every other spying and murderous operation they've carried out for the past twenty-five years.
They play the wounded martyr cartd. They claim they are being picked on just like they were by the Nazis (an actual case of anti-Jewish activity). Hence the Isreali Foreign Minister is blaming the New Zealand government. The botched assassination attempt in Norway in the early '70's, was the fault of the Norweigen government, the Pollard spy case was the fault of the U.S. for not giving Israel secrets they wanted. The litany goes on.
Whether you like it or not, the activity of the Massoud is well known in this part of the world (I live in Asia). They assume the identity of someone who either does not or cannot fly, in the New Zealand case it was an elderly man, confined to a wheel-chair, then they travel to a country that is unfriendly to Isreal, carry out their mission and then escape the country.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah, like the French agents were only 'alleged agents'..
Right up to the point where the French President admitted responsibility for the two French agents who blew up the Rainbow Warrior. Even ignoring the past blunders of Mossad and the apologies from the Israeli govt when they get busted, both New Zealand and Australian intelligence organisations seem convinced Mossad's been at work in our quiet little corner of the world...

Violet...
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. No, they were trying to steal passports...
Not secrets. Moving around with a harmless New Zealand passport was the goal of these guys, and if the Israeli govt thought NZ would react any differently, they've got rocks in their collective heads....

Violet...
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. It Came out Shaky...
I mentioned in my rebuttle to someone else about identity theft. My point was, and I apologise for not being clearer was, that the Israeli gov't always blames the other country when their agents are caught in the act of doing something illegal. In this case stealing the identity of a man confined to a wheel chair that they knew was unable to travel. They do this to get visa's to country's that are on unfriendly relations with Israel to carry out a mission and then leave the country no one the wiser.
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. a final kick for the mossad
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