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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:15 PM
Original message
Bush Involved in JFK Assassination
Those who doubt the reality of the BFEE need to know this: Two FBI memos concerning the assassination of President John F. Kennedy mention George Bush by name. One is initialed by J Edgar Hoover, the FBI director who helped pin the crime on "lone gunman" Lee Harvey Oswald.

In the first memo, the former president and father of the current occupant of the Oval Office is mentioned by his full name and address. Bush reported to the FBI telephonically his suspicions concerning one James Parrott, identified as a student at the University of Houston who spoke openly of shooting the Liberal president.



In the second memo, a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency reports that the anti-Castro (and largely anti-JFK) Cuban exile community in Miami regrets the assassination, but does not seem to have been involved in the crime. What an odd thing to report, we now know.



For years, researchers claimed that George Bush was involved in the CIA, using his Zapata Offshore Oil Company as non-official cover for Top Secret government business while exploring for oil around the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. Along with the arms business, the oil business has been THE business for American cloak-and-dagger, according to historian Kevin Phillips and others who describe the strategic nature of petroleum resources.

When the second memo became public, just as then-Vice President George Bush was starting his second run on the White House in 1988, Bush denied being the same fellah. The CIA came to his assistance and named another George Bush, one who was loaned temporarily from one government agency to CIA. The agency even gave reporters the guys home address, according to Christopher Hitchens who wrote about the event. That G. Bush was most surprised when he answered the doorbell and was asked by reporters if he was the guy. He categorically stated he was not the guy named in the memo.

Its strange how the name Bush keeps popping up in U.S. history. Whats sad is how few people know about it. Whats tragic is so few want to investigate what looks like treason, the murder of President Kennedy.



SINK the BFEE!
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fantastic post!
Thanks!

david
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. You're welcome dnvechoes! Hey! Didja hear 'bout De Mohrenschildt?
George De Mohrenschildt was the "geologist" who was friends with the White Russian exile community in Dallas, a group largely made up of swells who escaped the Stalinist slaughter of the 1930s. De Mohrenschildt "befriended" Lee Harvey Oswald when he redefected to the USA from the Soviet Union.

When Oswald was made the fall guy, De Mohrenschildt agreed, telling the Warren Commission Oswald was capable of the crime and was probably guilty. Years later, De Mohrenschildt changed his tune and said Oswald was a patsy. The day the House Select Committee on Assassinations went to interview him, De Mohrenschildt put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

HSAC investigator Gaeton Fonzi reported finding De Mohrenschild's address book the listing for Oswald. Also listed was the name, birthday, business and home addresses for one George Herbert Walker Bush. "Poppy" to his friends.

Here's a nice site for information on this subject, but near-impossible to navigate:

http://www.ciajfk.com/books.html



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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Wow!
I know some of the De Mohrenschildt stuff, but didn't know about the Bush connection.

Geesh!

david
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
41. De Mohrenschildt & Bush sounds Vaudevillian... I mean Villainous.
Strange how George Herbert Walker Bush's friend George de Mohrenschildt is the only man known to have been friends with both Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald.

http://www.lizmichael.com/bushykno.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/ohwhy/Bush.html



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. Memos dated 22 NOV 1963 and 29 NOV 1963.
Sorry I didn't make that clear in the original post. These are from the week of the assassination of President Kennedy.

Bush KNEW something about the assassination the day of the event and reported it to the FBI. The same day he's establishing some kind of paper trail: "Look into this man. Bad. He's very bad."

A week later, a "George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency," a guy who probably is the same fellah as in th first memo, goes on the record with the FBI to help clear the anti-Castro Cuban exile community in Miami: "Looked into these men. Good. They're real good."

Odd how today we know that many men from the Cuban exile community were used to fight the scourge of communism, from Latin America to southeast Asia. Some of them, like Felix Rodriguez, are VERY close to Poppy Bush.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. This story has always intrigued me.
Just to show that nobody in journalism wants to touch this story, when a reporter asked Bush Sr where he was that fateful day, Bush Sr said he didn't remember. End of interview; no follow-up questions; nada. And no one has mentioned it since. Every American remembers where they were, who they were with, what they were doing on that day. Amazing.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I thought it was funny it wasn't ever talked about. I think when you look
at the amount of covering done for Bushes you can see how powerful they are. Neil and his S&L, Bush SR and CIA, AWOL Bush, Enron connections. The list goes on and on. The scandals never carry any steam. It's really disgusting.
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Longhorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Didn't remember? There's not a person alive who was old enough
to understand what was going on who doesn't remember where he was when when he found out Kennedy had been shot! I was eight years old and I remember!
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. My friend was 5 she remembers it clearly
I was 10, I remember.

Of course, that fact that Poppy has no recollection of where he was also means he has no alibi. :evilgrin:
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
81. I was 18, and I remember.
Now way could "Poppy" forget. He was older than me. EVERYONE my age or older, at the very least, at the time remembered. "Poppy"s a liar, just like his dim-son.
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
86. I was five
I remember so many details. I remember what my Kindergarten class looked like, what my teacher said, how we walked home, my mother crying.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Beschloss told Imus Bush Jr and Bar were in Dallas to see the "parade."
seemslikeadream and other DUers reported hearing it, back round the 40th anniversary of the assassination. Odd that Houstonite Poppy would be in Dallas, unless he was in town on "company" business.

There are credible reports of people claiming to be "Secret Service" agents on the grassy knoll after the shooting. One of the witnesses was a US army non-com who filmed the assassination and reported hearing and feeling bullets whizzing by him. He said a man identified himself as a government agent, flashed a badge, and confiscated the camera. The serviceman objected and the guy took out the film and gave back the camera.

Another witness who spoke with a "Secret Service agent" was a police officer. The Dallas policeman said he was struck by the agent's "dirty fingernails and hands."

I'll follow up with sources when I get to my world headquarters. I'm still at today's rabbit, with the boss a few feet away...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thanks for the mention Octafish
I always liked this post of yours

Ever hear about the coup against FDR?
Any opportunity to spread the word about the kind of class the BFEE oozes is much appreciated. Here's a nice story not too many people may have heard about, the day the millionaires decided to steal back their country clubs:

The Attempted Coup Against FDR

By Barbara LaMonica

The John F. Kennedy assassination represents a theme in our political history. The causes, even the inevitability, of the assassination were born out of the power struggles among the ruling elite which are consistent throughout the American story. These struggles revolve around questions of what is the proper role of government vis a vis the business communitys pursuit of its own self-interest. Is the governments role minimal or laissez-faire? Should government only provide a stable environment of "law and order", through increased police powers, conducive to the maximization of profits and the minimization of workers wages and benefits? Or does the government have a higher purpose? Is it responsible for the common good? Is it the one entity capable of implementing justice, equality, and a partial redistribution of wealth through the regulation and taxation of corporations in order to provide a cushion against the more egregious effects of the free market? Should it ensure the workers share in the profits they helped to create?

At various times factions of what has become known as "corporate America" have argued over which role of government is ultimately more advantageous to their own ends. Generally speaking, banking and Wall Street favor less government. Retail, light manufacturing and small to medium size corporations are more tolerant of an activist government which might put more money in the hands of their consumers, and protect small businesses against the unfair competitive practices of larger corporations.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of governments role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Partys nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veterans army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butlers claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.

CONTINUED with lots o' names...

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Thanks, seemslikeadream! BTW:
I never forget a Friend.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Speaking of the NAZI coup of '63:

Reagan, Bush, Nixon, Johnson, Hoover and the rest absolutely did everything they could to destroy the investigation of Jim Garrison. Gee. It looks like the late judge was on to something. Here David Ferrie helps teach young air cadets a lesson, including Lee Harvey Oswald.



EXCERPT...

6. The House Select Committee also developed information linking Banister employee Ferrie, Oswald and Clay Shaw. Credible eyewitness testimony places these individuals at a Clinton (Louisiana) voter registration drive in August of 1963. The chairman of the Clinton chapter of CORE , Corrie Collins, was monitoring the drive outside the Registrars office, when at approximately 10:00a.m. he noticed the arrival of the car. Thinking they might be FBI, Collins studied the car and its occupants closely. As the car came to a stop, he observed a young white male exit the rear of the car and enter the registration line, while the driver and the other passenger remained in the car. Later, under oath, at the trial of Clay Shaw in 1969 and in his testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1978, Collins would identify the driver of the car as Clay Shaw, the passenger as David Ferrie, and the person in the registration line as Lee Harvey Oswald. (Ibid.; pp. 103-104.)

7. A mere four years later, Congress would conclude that was inclined to believe that Oswald was in Clinton La., in late August, early September 1963, and that he was in the company of David Ferrie, if not Clay Shaw. . . established an association of an undetermined nature between Ferrie, Shaw, and Oswald less than 3 months before the assassination. The committee added that they also found that there was at least a possibility that Oswald and Guy Banister were acquainted. They further concluded that the CIA-Mafia-Cuban plots had all the elements necessary for a successful assassination conspiracy. It is probably the ultimate irony that the U.S. governments conclusions echoed those of Jim Garrison a decade earlier. (Ibid.; p. 189.)

8. Banisters New Orleans office also served as the headquarters of the Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean, part of what would formally coalesce as the World Anti-Communist League in 1967. (For more on WACL, see also: RFA#s 14, 15, 18, 19, 21, 27, 29, 30, 36, 37.)

9. While investigating Eladio del Valle, Ferries associate in covert operations against Cuba, Garrisons investigating team was infiltrated by an anti-Castro Cuban with strong ties to the intelligence community. This operative, Bernardo de Torres, may well have been involved with the assassination itself. His name later cropped up in connection with the assassination of Orlando Letelier. (For more on the assassination of Letelier, see also: RFA#s 4, 19, 20, 22, 30, 37, as well as FTR#s 259, 268, 284.)

CONTINUED...

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f288.html
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. But he did remember....he even documented it in the above memo.
So why would he claim he didn't know where he was, when he obviously did?

People should se the pics of a man standing in front of the Texas Depository.....it really does look like a young GHWB slouching in his characteristic way. And don't forget the Bush family fortune that was lost when Cuba was nationalized (sugar)....I've always thought that was an unexplored aspect to his Bay of Pigs motivations.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yah like someone said once they wouldn't have put him in charge of
the CIA if he hadn't had any experience with it. They claim he was busy with his new oil venture, but it's been tossed around for a long time that he was really CIA. Of course who killed JFK will probably never be known, but when you look at the Warren Commision members you know it wasn't meant to find anything out. Just like the present day 9/11 commission. We will be told enough to appease the majority of the population, but never know what really happened.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. You understand the situation, kikiek.
"Just like the present day 9/11 commission. We will be told enough to appease the majority of the population, but never know what really happened."

Thus, you know what we're up against.

Was George Bush involved in JFK assassination?

The Men Who Killed JFK:

Nelson Rockefeller
Allen Dulles
Lyndon Johnson of Texas
George Bush
J. Edgar Hoover

Rodney Stich's book "Defrauding America" tells of a "deep-cover CIA officer"assigned to a counter-intelligence unit, code-named Pegasus. This unit "had tape-recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy" from a tap on the phone of J. Edgar Hoover. The people on the tapes were " Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, Johnson of Texas, George Bush and J. Edgar Hoover."

Could George Bush be involved in the JFK assassination?

In 1963, Bush was living in Houston, busily carrying out his duties as President of the Zapata Offshore oil company. He denied the existence of a note sent by the FBI's J. Edgar Hoover to "Mr. George Bush of the CIA." When news of the note surfaced, the CIA first said they never commented on employment questions, but later relented said yes, a "George Bush" was mentioned in the note, but that it was "another" George Bush, not the man who took office in the White House in 1988.

Some intrepid reporters tracked down the "other" George Bush and discovered that he was just a lowly clerk who had shuffled papers for the CIA for about six months. He never received any interagency messages from anybody at the FBI, let alone the Queen Mary.

CONTINUED...

http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/0606_bushjfk.h...

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #29
74. Allen Dulles, the Bushes, and the CIA are closely linked
The Bush-Dulles relationship goes back to 1934, when a congressional investigation revealed that the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, owned by Prescott Bush's father-in-law, Herbert W. Walker, was a cover for I.G. Farben. Prescott Bush hired Allen Dulles to conceal the assets, and Dulles continued working as a lawyer for Bush in his dealings with German firms through the 1930's. Although Bush eventually got into a certain amount of trouble for his Nazi connections, Dulles saw to it that after World War II Bush got his Farben shares back and was able to sell them. Bush and Dulles remained close through the 50's, when Bush was a senator from Connecticut and Dulles was first deputy director (1951) and then director (1953-61) of the CIA.

There are implications in "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" that George H.W. Bush may have been involved with the CIA as early as 1954:

"{George H.W.} Bush and the Liedtke brothers now concluded that the epoch in which large oil fields could be discovered within the continental United States was now over. Mammoth new oil fields, they believed, could only be found offshore, located under hundreds of feet of water on the continental shelves, or in shallow seas like the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. By a happy coincidence, in 1954 the US federal government was just beginning to auction the mineral rights for these offshore areas. ... Bush and his partners therefore judged the moment ripe for launching a for-hire drilling company, Zapata Offshore, a Delaware corporation that would offer its services to the companies making up the Seven Sisters international oil cartel in drilling underwater wells. 40% of the offshore company's stock would be owned by the original Zapata firm. The new company would also be a buyer of offshore royalty leases.

<snip>

"1954 was also the year that the US overthrew the government of Jacopo Arbenz in Guatemala. This was the beginning of a dense flurry of US covert operations in central America and the Caribbean, featuring especially Cuba.

<snip>

"Counsel were listed {in 1956} as Baker, Botts, Andrews & Shepherd of Houston, Texas; auditors were Arthur Andersen in Houston, and transfer agents were J.P. Morgan & Co., Inc., of New York City and the First National Bank and Trust Company of Tulsa."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.8.htm


"In a couple of years he got help from his uncle, George Walker, Jr., and Farish's British banker friends, to set him up in the oil property speculation business. Soon thereafter, George Bush founded the Zapata Oil Company, which put oil drilling rigs into certain locations of great strategic interest to the Anglo-American intelligence community."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.3.htm
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #74
92. Great resouces, as always, starroute! Funny that "Anglo-American" link.
You can take the royalist out of the traitor, but you can't take the traitor out of the royal. Seems these crooks would've sided with the crown in 1776. Today they are business partners, at least.

American 'Empire': Bank of England's Crown Colony

by HENRY MAKOW, PhD

In 1919, the Rothschild-dominated Bank of England planned to trick the United States into becoming a "British" colony again by joining the League of Nations. The League was the "Empire" in disguise and this would formalize a status which in fact already existed in everything but name.

This is one of many shocking revelations in the "Col House Report", a chilling 10-page "progress report" dated June 10,1919.

"We have wrapped this plan in the peace treaty so that the world must accept from us the League or a continuance of the war. The League is in substance the Empire with America admitted on the same basis as our other colonies."

The report oozes contempt for Americans and reveals the deceitful methods international finance employed 85 years ago to bring about world government. These goals and methods have not changed. If ever we needed proof of an elite conspiracy to subvert democracy and national independence, this is it.

CONTINUED BFEE TREASON...

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=1...
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. The activities of British intelligence deserve closer scrutiny
There's been a lot of focus on the OSS and the CIA -- but back in the 1940's, when Americans were still babes in the woods where it came to spying, British intelligence people were our masters in the business.

There's a passage in "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" which states:

Naval warfare has long been a preoccupation of the British Empire. British penetration of the U.S. Naval Intelligence service has been particularly heavy since the tenure of Joan's Anglophile grandfather, William C. Whitney, as Secretary of the Navy for President Grover Cleveland. This traditional covert British orientation in the U.S. Navy, Naval Intelligence and the Navy's included service, the Marine Corps, forms a backdrop to the career of George Bush--and to the whole neighborhood on Jupiter Island. Naval Intelligence maintained direct relations with gangster boss Meyer Lansky for Anglo-American political operations in Cuba during World War II, well before the establishment of the CIA. Lansky officially moved to Florida in 1953.

http://www.the7thfire.com/bush4.htm


I also have quotes referring to the Tavistock Psychiatric Clinic of London in the context of early CIA mind-control experiments -- I think those come from "The Unauthorized Biography" as well.


It's been a continuing puzzle to me whether the Bush gang in the 30's were more pro-British or more pro-German -- but perhaps they were operating in circles where all three converged.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. British royals were pro-Hitler, at first.
The musical group "Pop Will Eat Itself" describes the British royals as the "Family Horribilis." Certainly the term applies to the BFEE, as well. Here's a handy reference for those learning about the blue-bloods and the fascists:

The Nazi Roots of the House of Windsor

One of the biggest public relations hoaxes ever perpetrated by the British Crown, is that King Edward VIII, who abdicated the throne in 1938, due to his support for the Nazis, was a ``black sheep,'' an aberration in an otherwise unblemished Windsor line. Nothing could be further from the truth. The British monarchy, and the City of London's leading Crown bankers, enthusiastically backed Hitler and the Nazis, bankrolled the Fhrer's election, and did everything possible to build the Nazi war machine, for Britain's planned geopolitical war between Germany and Russia.

Support for Nazi-style genocide has always been at the heart of House of Windsor policy, and long after the abdication of Edward VIII, the Merry Windsors maintained their direct Nazi links.

So, when Prince Philip, co-founder with Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), tells an interviewer that he hopes to be ``reincarnated as a deadly virus'' to help solve the ``population problem,'' he is just ``doin' what comes naturally'' for any scion of the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy (see page 8 for more quotes from Prince Philip).

To get beyond the soap opera stuff and truly understand the Windsors today, it is useful to start with Prince Philip. Not only was he trained in the Hitler Youth curriculum, but his German brothers-in-law, with whom he lived, all became high-ranking figures in the Nazi Party.

CONTINUED TREACHERY...

http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/naziroot.ht...
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
93. Kevin Phillips on George H. Walker and Cuba
(I mangled Walker's name above -- my apologies to anyone I might have confused.)

This is from an NPR interview and comes directly before a question about Bush and the Kennedy assassination.

"KEVIN PHILLIPS: George H. Walker was a real piece of work. I mean, he was a buccaneer. He was sort of a Joe Kennedy, but with a social register type qualification. He got involved in the 1920's with a bunch of Cuban companies, because of his ties to Percy Rockefeller and the National City Bank. They handled a lot of investments in Cuba. He was a director during the 1920's of eight or nine Cuban companies. George H. Walker had ties to the -- investment ties that were independent, so he had invested in some of these companies. One of them turned out several -- several turned out to merge into something called West Indies Sugar. West Indies Sugar became one of the major American companies in Cuba, and George H. Walker Jr., the son of George H. Walker and Prescott, Bush's cousin was a director, held a family seat on West Indies Sugar. Now during the late 1950's, West Indies Sugar was based in the Indy province in Cuba. That's where the Castro insurgency was developing. Castro and his people sort of shook down West Indies Sugar. They used their trucks and hit them up for money and so forth. They were unhappy with the Castro movement. In 1959 or 1960, I forget which year, Castro's people nationalized West Indies Sugar, and at this time George H. W. Bush's uncle was Director of West Indies Sugar. The value of West Indies sugar had been about $50 million and it wound up being virtually peanuts. I don't know how much their stake was. I couldn't begin to guess. It may not have been nearly as much as one would suggest from the bigger numbers. They were an unhappy set of campers when West Indies Sugar went bye-bye."

http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=04/01/12/14482...


It seems as though there's a Cuba connection to all this that goes back a good ways -- not just to when the Mob and the CIA were using Cuba as a base for heroin shipments to the US in the 1950's. For example, I'd like to know more about Percy Rockefeller and the National City Bank. I'm coming to the conclusion that any time there is an area where profits are to be made and government oversight is lax (as in Africa today), the usual suspects can be counted upon to turn up.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. If there's money to be made, property stolen, people enslaved...
... we find the BFEE/fascist/KKK/Mafia/corporatist/MI-complex.

As starroute reports:

"...any time there is an area where profits are to be made and government oversight is lax (as in Africa today), the usual suspects can be counted upon to turn up."

The turds of the BFEE made money off the Civil War.

They made money off the Great World War I.

Guatemala.

They made money trading with Hitler to rearm Germany.

The name Bush plays prominent roles in:

Bay of Pigs.

JFK Assassination.

Brazil.

Vietnam.

Chile.

Heroin from SE Asia.

Watergate.

October Surprise.

Reagan shot and Neil's having dinner w/ Hinckley brother.

El Salvador.

Iran-Contra.

S&L lootings.

Nugan Hand Bank.

BCCI.

Iraq-gate.

Arbusto/HARKEN/Spectrum 7 petrodollar dump

Whitewater Bushwa.

Monica Bushwa.

Selection 2000.

ENRON Energy policy.

Wall Street/Arthur Andersen rip-offs

9-11.

USA PATRIOT Act.

Ill-run Afghanistan plan.

Illegal Iraq Invasion.

(There are many more. Please add to the crooked accounting.)

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
75. The Bushes, Allen Dulles, and the CIA are closely linked
The Bush-Dulles relationship goes back to 1934, when a congressional investigation revealed that the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, owned by Prescott Bush's father-in-law, Herbert W. Walker, was a cover for I.G. Farben. Prescott Bush hired Allen Dulles to conceal the assets, and Dulles continued working as a lawyer for Bush in his dealings with German firms through the 1930's. Although Bush eventually got into a certain amount of trouble for his Nazi connections, Dulles saw to it that after World War II Bush got his Farben shares back and was able to sell them. Bush and Dulles remained close through the 50's, when Bush was a senator from Connecticut and Dulles was first deputy director (1951) and then director (1953-61) of the CIA.

There are implications in "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" that George H.W. Bush may have been involved with the CIA as early as 1954:

"{George H.W.} Bush and the Liedtke brothers now concluded that the epoch in which large oil fields could be discovered within the continental United States was now over. Mammoth new oil fields, they believed, could only be found offshore, located under hundreds of feet of water on the continental shelves, or in shallow seas like the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. By a happy coincidence, in 1954 the US federal government was just beginning to auction the mineral rights for these offshore areas. ... Bush and his partners therefore judged the moment ripe for launching a for-hire drilling company, Zapata Offshore, a Delaware corporation that would offer its services to the companies making up the Seven Sisters international oil cartel in drilling underwater wells. 40% of the offshore company's stock would be owned by the original Zapata firm. The new company would also be a buyer of offshore royalty leases.

<snip>

"1954 was also the year that the US overthrew the government of Jacopo Arbenz in Guatemala. This was the beginning of a dense flurry of US covert operations in central America and the Caribbean, featuring especially Cuba.

<snip>

"Counsel were listed {in 1956} as Baker, Botts, Andrews & Shepherd of Houston, Texas; auditors were Arthur Andersen in Houston, and transfer agents were J.P. Morgan & Co., Inc., of New York City and the First National Bank and Trust Company of Tulsa."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.8.htm


"In a couple of years he got help from his uncle, George Walker, Jr., and Farish's British banker friends, to set him up in the oil property speculation business. Soon thereafter, George Bush founded the Zapata Oil Company, which put oil drilling rigs into certain locations of great strategic interest to the Anglo-American intelligence community."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.3.htm
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
101. Sort of like an early Halliburton.
1954. Guatemala.

Zapata Offshore, a Delaware corporation that would offer its services to the companies making up the Seven Sisters international oil cartel in drilling underwater wells.

Or Brewster Jennings & Associates, Valerie Plame's Non-Official Cover company.

Zapata trolls for oil. Zapata trolls troll for commies.

Smirk was raised to consider Democrats commies.

How I hate the BFEE.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
76. Allen Dulles, the Bushes, and the CIA are closely linked
The Bush-Dulles relationship goes back to 1934, when a congressional investigation revealed that the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, owned by Prescott Bush's father-in-law, Herbert W. Walker, was a cover for I.G. Farben. Prescott Bush hired Allen Dulles to conceal the assets, and Dulles continued working as a lawyer for Bush in his dealings with German firms through the 1930's. Although Bush eventually got into a certain amount of trouble for his Nazi connections, Dulles saw to it that after World War II Bush got his Farben shares back and was able to sell them. Bush and Dulles remained close through the 50's, when Bush was a senator from Connecticut and Dulles was first deputy director (1951) and then director (1953-61) of the CIA.

There are implications in "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" that George H.W. Bush may have been involved with the CIA as early as 1954:

"{George H.W.} Bush and the Liedtke brothers now concluded that the epoch in which large oil fields could be discovered within the continental United States was now over. Mammoth new oil fields, they believed, could only be found offshore, located under hundreds of feet of water on the continental shelves, or in shallow seas like the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. By a happy coincidence, in 1954 the US federal government was just beginning to auction the mineral rights for these offshore areas. ... Bush and his partners therefore judged the moment ripe for launching a for-hire drilling company, Zapata Offshore, a Delaware corporation that would offer its services to the companies making up the Seven Sisters international oil cartel in drilling underwater wells. 40% of the offshore company's stock would be owned by the original Zapata firm. The new company would also be a buyer of offshore royalty leases.

<snip>

"1954 was also the year that the US overthrew the government of Jacopo Arbenz in Guatemala. This was the beginning of a dense flurry of US covert operations in central America and the Caribbean, featuring especially Cuba.

<snip>

"Counsel were listed {in 1956} as Baker, Botts, Andrews & Shepherd of Houston, Texas; auditors were Arthur Andersen in Houston, and transfer agents were J.P. Morgan & Co., Inc., of New York City and the First National Bank and Trust Company of Tulsa."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.8.htm


"In a couple of years he got help from his uncle, George Walker, Jr., and Farish's British banker friends, to set him up in the oil property speculation business. Soon thereafter, George Bush founded the Zapata Oil Company, which put oil drilling rigs into certain locations of great strategic interest to the Anglo-American intelligence community."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.3.htm
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #29
77. Allen Dulles, the Bushes, and the CIA are closely linked
The Bush-Dulles relationship goes back to 1934, when a congressional investigation revealed that the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, owned by Prescott Bush's father-in-law, Herbert W. Walker, was a cover for I.G. Farben. Prescott Bush hired Allen Dulles to conceal the assets, and Dulles continued working as a lawyer for Bush in his dealings with German firms through the 1930's. Although Bush eventually got into a certain amount of trouble for his Nazi connections, Dulles saw to it that after World War II Bush got his Farben shares back and was able to sell them. Bush and Dulles remained close through the 50's, when Bush was a senator from Connecticut and Dulles was first deputy director (1951) and then director (1953-61) of the CIA.

There are implications in "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" that George H.W. Bush may have been involved with the CIA as early as 1954:

"{George H.W.} Bush and the Liedtke brothers now concluded that the epoch in which large oil fields could be discovered within the continental United States was now over. Mammoth new oil fields, they believed, could only be found offshore, located under hundreds of feet of water on the continental shelves, or in shallow seas like the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. By a happy coincidence, in 1954 the US federal government was just beginning to auction the mineral rights for these offshore areas. ... Bush and his partners therefore judged the moment ripe for launching a for-hire drilling company, Zapata Offshore, a Delaware corporation that would offer its services to the companies making up the Seven Sisters international oil cartel in drilling underwater wells. 40% of the offshore company's stock would be owned by the original Zapata firm. The new company would also be a buyer of offshore royalty leases.

<snip>

"1954 was also the year that the US overthrew the government of Jacopo Arbenz in Guatemala. This was the beginning of a dense flurry of US covert operations in central America and the Caribbean, featuring especially Cuba.

<snip>

"Counsel were listed {in 1956} as Baker, Botts, Andrews & Shepherd of Houston, Texas; auditors were Arthur Andersen in Houston, and transfer agents were J.P. Morgan & Co., Inc., of New York City and the First National Bank and Trust Company of Tulsa."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.8.htm

"In a couple of years he got help from his uncle, George Walker, Jr., and Farish's British banker friends, to set him up in the oil property speculation business. Soon thereafter, George Bush founded the Zapata Oil Company, which put oil drilling rigs into certain locations of great strategic interest to the Anglo-American intelligence community."

http://www.american-buddha.com/unauthor.bio.bush.3.htm
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #29
78. Multiple dupes due to DU bugs
Edited on Fri Jul-16-04 12:38 AM by starroute
I got a message my posting hadn't gone through, so I kept trying. Now it won't let me edit the ones I posted 20 minutes ago, because it says the time for editing has expired.

Drat, drat, drat.
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sunny5555 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gosh!
Now we know who was the gunman on the grassy knoll. Thanks,I never knew.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Who said that ??
But you don't find the connections "interesting" ?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Shocking.
Absolutely shocking.

Gordon Arnold

Gordon Arnold was born in Dallas, Texas, in 1941. After completing his education he joined the United States Army and was based at Fort Wainwright in Alaska. He was home on leave on 22nd November, 1963, and decided to take his movie camera to Dealey Plaza in order to film the visit of President John F. Kennedy. While walking by the Grassy Knoll he was stopped by a man claiming to be a member of the Secret Service. He later told Jim Marrs: "I was walking along behind this picket fence when a man in a light-colored suit came up to me and said I shouldn't be up there. I was young and cocky and I said, "Why not?" And he showed me a badge and said he was with the Secret Service and that he didn't want anyone up there. I said all right and started walking back along the fence. I could feel that he was following me and we had a few more words. I walked around to the front of the fence and found a little mound of dirt to stand on to see the motorcade."

Arnold claimed that the first shot was fired from behind him. After the firing had finished, Arnold claimed that a policeman with a gun forced him to hand over the film in his camera. Arnold returned to Fort Wainwright and was never interviewed by the Warren Commission or the House Select Committee on Assassinations about what he had seen on 22nd November, 1963.

After leaving the army Arnold became an investigator for the Dallas Department of Consumer Affairs. It was not until the summer of 1978, that Arnold decided to speak about his experiences in Dealey Plaza on 22nd July, 1963. Arnold gave an interview to Earl Goltz, a reporter with the Dallas Morning News. The article appeared on 27th July, 1978. Interviews with Arnold also appeared in Reasonable Doubt (Henry Hurt) and Crossfire (Jim Marrs).

Some researchers have doubted Arnold's testimony but it has been supported by the testimony of Ralph Yarborough who told a newspaper reporter from the Dallas Morning News: "Immediately on the firing of the first shot I saw the man you interviewed throw himself onto the ground. He was down within a second of the time the shot was fired, and I thought to myself, 'There's a combat veteran who knows how to act when weapons start firing.' "

Gordon Arnold died in 1997.

SOURCE:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKarnoldG.htm


BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, sunny5555! Where ya been?
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. Classic technique!
Nice job. Did you think you wouldn't be spotted?
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Robin Hood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. I had made this connection years ago.
During the early part of his one term. I have felt it in my bones that he either did it or had it done. A few years later he became head of the CIA/vice prez/prez, it looks like he got rewarded handsomely for that.

Makes you raise your eyebrows about what has happened to all of the "accidents"/assasinations that the Keddedy's have had, including John John and Kennedy's car accident that resulted in a womans death.

Could it have been that Kennedy's car was tampered with and he wasn't supposed to survive the accident?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Don't forget,
Teddy was also in a (small) plane crash in 1964. He was in the hospital for months afterward.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
42. War Party got ahead. Peace Party got buried.
One guy who did groundbreaking work on what happened is Major John Newman (USA, ret.), once a history professor at West Point and now a professor at U Maryland.

Newman uncovered the National Security Action Memorandum 263 that showed JFK wanted US military OUT of Vietnam by the end of 1963. The other NSAM he found, 273, dated a week after the assissantion, indicated a reversal of policy. LBJ made it official policy that the United States would do whatever was necessary to ensure the survival of the government of South Vietnam.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsam-jfk/nsam-263.htm

An excellent overview:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:CknxYAz1V0cJ:www.his...

PS: The above is a GOOGLE cache of a formerly excellent web source, History Matters. The main site's gone... Please, DUers, copy the info and spread about before it's lost.



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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
49. I recently began to wonder about Chapaquiddik
the right have certainly gotten a lot of mileage out of this

of course, Teddy's delay in reporting, etc, are not squeaky clean
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. surely ted kennedy and others kennedy's would know this
and i believe kennedy didnt have issue with bush 1 just bushie boy
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Just because they know?
Iwould think they know that Oswald was a patsy. I would even think they know or have a good idea who was really behind it. I am not sure there is anything they can do about it or that they have the will to do anything about it.

That seems to be a common theme when discussing the Democratic lack of opposition to the right wing. The right wing has been allowed to commit high crime after high crime while Dems have been made to suffer over petty personal affairs.
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. This sounds weird, I know
But just the other night I was thinking about JFK Jr. going down in a small plane. OK so apparently and supposedly he had no immediate political asperations.......

Damn! Jack, Bobby and JFK Jr. too?

What incredible bad.............luck!?!?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Ed Kennedy was also in a small plane crash in the mid-60's......
And Bobby was definitely going to reopen the investigation into his brother's death. Just unlucky coincidences for the strongest Democratic 1st family of US politics in our generation.....
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Blue Wally Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. "Damn! Jack, Bobby and JFK Jr. too? "
Yah and years after Sirhan Sirhan killed Bobby, Syringe Syringe killed Bobby's son. Suspicious coincidence!!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. And involved in the Bay of Pigs reportedly...
One of the boats that the "insurgents" went in belonged to GHWB and had the name "Barbara" on its side??
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The other one was "Zapata"...
name of Bush's Oil Co.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. And the 3rd was named "Houston"
Sorta narrows the potential universe of people who'd have associations with all 3 names.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Small world. And very bad. Especially to people who work for PEACE.
Thanks to the people of the BFEE.

JFK worked for Peace.
JFK worked for Justice.
JFK worked for Equality.

And he was PROUD to use his position and the power of the US Government to make life better for ALL Americans. He also used his office to maintain the world's peace.

That made him an enemy to the war party. The servants of which are the BFEE.

They make money off war.
They use money to enslave the population.
They maintain their status through inequity.

Kennedy and ALL Liberals, are a danger to the BFEE.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Love this topic!
Octafish, glad to see you keep this subject going. I have been studying this for 25 years and learn something new with each thread. I recently stumbled upon a great site with tons of info but I can't find it. I'll keep looking and post when I have more time.
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King_Crimson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. A complete database review...
Edited on Wed Jul-14-04 07:50 PM by HOWLIN_WOLF
can be found at http://www.jmasland.com This is an EXCELLENT source on JFK'S murder. The intro is animated so give it a few seconds to load!
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thanks, HOWLIN_WOLF!
Great site, bookmarked for research!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
44. The powers-that-be used Dallas to build support for Cuba invasion...
During the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, almost the entire cabinet, and most of Congress that had been briefed wanted JFK to launch a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, even if it meant global nuclear war.

Thanks to Adlai Stevenson and Bobby Kennedy, the President ordered the government agencies to work out an alternative. That was the embargo. For his trouble keeping the world from ending, JFK was branded "soft" on communism and worse.

One of the things that has most troubled me about the JFK assassination is that there is so much evidence indicating government duplicity in the killing. Chief among these is the concerted efforts to paint Oswald as being a communist sympathizer who wanted to shoot the President and then flee to Cuba.

(This is in addition to the trail created before the assassination: One man purchased trucks in Oswald's name. Another took a car dealer on a harrowing "test drive" and said he'd be "coming into money" soon.)

A man impersonating Oswald appeared at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City. The CIA, for decades, stated the man was Oswald only to later recant and state they don't know who the man was. Well that, to me, shows SOMEONE went to a lot of trouble to point the finger at Castro. I think these high-ups are the ones who today want to overthrow Castro. Their cheerleader-in-chief, Smirk Bush.



This is the man the CIA top brass claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Striking there's no similarity. Notice the forearms, those of a very strong man.
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maxpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. Looks like
Jack Ruby to me.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
66. Interesting. To me, the man pictured looks like a Hit Man.
Check out the forearms. Those are built to twist necks.

Still, it could be Ruby, except the people interviewed by the FBI from the consulates probably would've shown them pictures of the guy.

Anyway, here's a picture of Jack Ruby:



Here's one with his arms:



The thumb's longer:



The guy was a friend of Nixon's.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. George HW Bush, the "White Rose"
Edited on Wed Jul-14-04 09:04 PM by Minstrel Boy
I hope everyone knows about P2, Italy's fascist, secret lodge headed by arch-criminal and CIA asset Licio Gelli, which was behind the Vatican Bank scandal, Roberto Calvi's massive fraud at Banco Ambrosiano, the false-flag terror of the "strategy of tension" and numerous assassinations, perhaps even including Pope John Paul I. Silvio Berlusconi's name was on the members' role, long before he entered politics. And there were "honorary" non-Italian members, too, including leading neocon Michael Ledeen (who happened to be serving at the time as an advisor to Italian security forces), Alexander Haig and George HW Bush.


Interesting material from Barbara Honegger in her book October Surprise:

"According to Informant 'Y,' who claims his source to be Licio Gelli's top associate Francesco Pazienza, George Bush himself was made an 'honorary' member of P2 in 1976, the year that he became director of the Central Intelligence Agency.... According to 'Y,' shortly before the assassination of Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme, Licio Gelli sent a message to former Republican National Committee advisor and alleged 'honorary' P2 member Philip Guarino assuring him that 'the Swedish tree will be felled' and to 'tell our good friend Bush.'"

Another informant "confirmed that there had been a pre-election meeting and agreement between the Reagan-Bush campaign and Iran, and that George Bush's code name for the secret Iran operation was 'White Rose.' The reader will recall that in 1973, when police uncovered the P2 control cell responsible for terrorism in Italy, they learned that its code name was 'The Rose of Twenty.' Grandmaster Gelli apparently had a fondness for the flower." (page 240)

"The White Rose" was also the name of a far right Cuban exile group active during the Bay of Pigs, in which Bush is reputed to have been involved.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence.

Here's another one: in 1988, on the 25th anniversary of JFK's murder, Ted Kennedy marked the occasion in Runnymede England by placing, at the foot of his brother's memorial, a "single white rose."
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. The White Rose was also the name of

a small group of students who disseminated anti-Nazi literature in Nazi Germany. They were executed for their actions.

Poppy in P2, huh? Well, he's a Bonesman and belongs to Bohemian Grove so he does like secret societies. And that's not even counting the Company.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. P-2's "Strategy of Tension"
Developed by the Italian neo-cons, the "Strategy of Tension" is the blueprint for Ashcroft's "Terror Alert" act.



EXCERPT...

A Strategy of Tension

"The Chickens are coming home to roost." Malcolm X


Like the Reischtag fire, the Oklahoma City bombing served as the catalyst to impose a new wave of draconian legislation on the American people.

The bombing also dovetailed perfectly with the policy of blaming pre-arranged groups, developed in early 1980s by the CIA's Vince Cannistraro working in tandem with Oliver North to develop the policy that was used to divert attention onto Libya in the Lockerbie bombing.

The CIA had established a precedent for such policies more than forty years ago in Italy and Greece, when the OSS intervened in those countries' elections by supporting fascist collaborators who would attack the population and disrupt political proceedings. Through Operation SHEEPSKIN, the CIA worked with former Nazi collaborators in Greece to institute a campaign of black propaganda, terrorist bombings and other provocations to be blamed on the Left, resulting in a fascist coup and the murder and repression of thousands.

The CIA helped create a "Strategy of Tension" in Italy through collaboration with the Mafia, corrupt Italian secret services, and fascists working through Masonic Mafia-linked societies such as Licio Gelli's Propaganda Due (P2 Lodge). Gelli (AKA: the "Puppet Master") had been friends with fascists such as Italian Dictator Benito Mussolini, Croatia's Dr Pavlic, and Juan Peron of Argentina, and had also fought with the fascist Italian Blackshirt division during the Spanish Civil War.

Gelli's P2 and elements within the Vatican (such as Father Krujoslav Dragonovic, a Croatian Catholic priest one of many who had helped the CIA export Nazi war criminals out of Germany through its Rat Lines), working in conjunction with the CIA, aligned itself with criminals, corrupt police, and high government officials to discredit the emerging Left and stage a fascist coup. "The Vatican's fear was clear: Communism posed a threat to its religious, political, and economic strength."<1294>

CONTINUED...

http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt_14.htm

This link's probably old news to you, MB. I'll get better soon, I promise.

Licio Gelli is a megaturd of the BFEE. Seems he was involved int he October Surprise.

http://www.subliminal.org/mugbook/fascists/gelli.html

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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. I read something a couple years back about this...
Apparently Bush kinda disappeared the week of the president's visit to Dallas and was spotted downtown just before the assassination. Coincidence? :shrug:
Duckie
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
99. Check out what seemslikeadream posted in #58.
There are links that open up photos of a fellah who looks and slouches just like Poppy outside the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. Small world.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. Are you suggesting that Poppy might know some secrets
about some very powerful people which he could have levereged into successive positions of power over the years? I don't think it would be the first time that's happened, if true.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Not only suggesting it, I propose he be interrogated on the subject.
I'd volunteer to prepare the questions. Perhaps others would be so kind as to donate their time, as well. There's a hell of a lot to ask Poppy about.

I'm afraid if we don't get him in the witness box before a Grand Jury ASAFP, he'll suffer a setback of health that will prevent him from serving out his sentence upon conviction. Once he's gone, he'll have a hell of a lot to answer for.

BTW: Great Hendrix phrase, there. "Aint no life nowhere."

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Or prehaps the converse is true.
Other's have leveraged their success by compromising the Bush family. I'm thinking the Kuwaiti's, the bin Ladens, and the House of Saud, here.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. The microfiche of where he was that day was
inadvertently destroyed. :(
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Imagine that.
:eyes:
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
39. Can you post a link, please?
Do these documents come from the GWU archives?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Sorry. The first is from 22 Nov 1963. The second is from 29 Nov 1963.
Sorry! Here's where I got them:

http://www.internetpirate.com/bush.htm

The person who's posted them reports finding them in the National Archives, released through the JFK Assassination Records Review Board. Any more info on their provenance would be appreciated, as it would make an excellent starting point for interrogation.
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gandalf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Thanks for the link! nt
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funnyshirts Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
43. Unsatisfied with Bush/Cheney?
Why not express your views with a comical t-shirt?
Visit www.stopbushshirt.com
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. LOL. What gives you that idea? Here's EVIDENCE showing USG complicity:
The Secret Service was ORDERED to stand down on the day of the assassination. The link below opens a Quicktime Movie taken at Love Field, the old Dallas airport, on 22 November 1963. It SHOWS an agent ORDERED OFF THE PRESIDENT'S CAR. This is certain evidence of government involvement in the assassination. It shows conspriacy. It proves TREASON.

http://www.jfklancer.com/SSoffcar.html

Hope the file opens up. It doesn't on this computer, but will on another.

If possicle, can you please put the picture of the Secret Service agent holding his hands up on a shirt? Don't worry if you can't, just spread the news.

BTW: A heary welcome to DU, funnyshirts! Where ya been?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
47. People won't listen if nobody 'important' or 'credible' says anything
and if people don't care nobody will bother to investigate.

What journalist can get this out to the most people? Which of them have the courage to do it?

Randi? Mike?

We all know Al will just scoff.

*sigh*
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. Pruneface Reagan killed the HSAC investigation.
Reagan's attorney general in 1981 totally disregarded the House Select Committee's recommendations to continue the investigation. It tore my heart out, but it steeled my resolve to destroy the BFEE.

From the committee's report:

The Committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that president John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy.

Gaeton Fonzi wrote: "The Last Investigation." If you can get a copy, it's a remarkable read documenting what the HSCA was doing, facing, and covering-up. And yet, remarkably, they still managed to get the word out.

The news President Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy was buried inside the paper. The reason? Conspiracy indicates TREASON.

http://www.jfklancer.com/HSCA.html



Remember Number 6, Patrick McGoohan's character in "The Prisoner," who'd ask: "Who's side are you on?!"

Those who want to know the Truth are on OUR side.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Thanks very, very much for the reference!!!!
Will definitely get a copy of that!

Oh and btw, :yourock: :loveya:

Love No. 6, too. :)

But I have to wonder... those that shut down any examination of conspiracy... some seem to be on our side. What to do... what to do...
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
48. This is so awesome....
I always wondered about a connection..........

:yourock:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. JFK assassination = "The Bay of Pigs Thing." -- Richard M. Nixon
The Kennedy-Nixon-Bush Connection

by Paul Kangas

EXCERPT...

A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez.

SNIP...

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

CONTINUED...

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/dead_kennedys/161963...

BTW: A most hearty welcome to DU, AFSCME Girl! Thank you for your service to our country!
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Thank you for the warm welcome
and the awesome response and link. :yourock:
B*sh "the elder" and B*sh "the younger" just don't stop,
do they? :puke:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
51. Oh, they murdered the Kennedys. Imperial Dogfight. History may
recording the 60s and the Struiugle for Empire between the Bush and Kennedy families.

The Kennedys lost. Of course, the Kennedys may NEVER have desired Imperial Tyranny the way the Bushes always have since they were laundering Hitler's money, so they were caught like someone who has brough bare knuckles to a gunfight.

Speculation, of course. We'll never know for sure.

But WE KNOW.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. Yes. It's the difference between night and day.
There's no comparing what JFK did for the country in just three years and how much damage the Bush Organized Crime Family has done in it's 15 years of power -- count Reagan's, as Pruneface was never the same after taking the slug to the aorta, and that was due Bush family friend John Hinckley.

Whereas the Bushes have used their stewardship of the nation's highest office to loot the Treasury, pillage the planet and penure the American People; President Kennedy did ALL he could to make life better for ALL Americans, from the space race which established American technological superiority to maintaining peace with the Soviet Union TWICE. When the big-money boys wanted a war, the Bushes have always been there -- from Vietnam to Iraqi Oil War 2; but when the JCS and most of the Cabinet and Congress were shouting for nuclear war, Kennedy kept the peace.

Thanks, Tom! There IS a difference.

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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
52. I don't have the link but I remember
reading that JFK Jr. had planned to speak at the Democratic Convention and was thinking seriously of pursuing politics. Newsweek did an exclusive on this but it was never distributed - even the website deleted that issue.

If anybody has that link, could you post, need to add to my research file.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
53.  I bow to the knowledge of the Octafish
Knows all sees all


I want to see another world
For me and my child
My old lady, too
Maybe you
If we can
If we get to
I want to see another world
I want to see another world.

I think you might see a great ship up in the sky
Like an eagle, like a stallion
Might be a burning silver wheel
Let you know you can fly
Look up in the sky
Look up thru the darkness
I think it might be love.

I want to see another world
For me and my child
My old lady, too
Maybe you
If we can
If we get to
I want to see another world
I want to see another world
I want to see another world

When all the sky is darkness
When all the ground you know is gone
How the solar wind she blows
Snowy silver dragon sings the songs
Flying straight up to the sky
Great singing engines sigh and
Drive this metal fragment into time.

Lets try to get along with each other
Sister and brother
Father and mother
Everyones a lover.

I want to see another world...

Lets try to get along with each other
Sister and brother
Father and mother
Everyones a lover.

Get along with each other
Sister and brother...




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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Embarrassed. As a Democrat, I believe all people are created equal.
I bow to you, seemslikeadream. You and DU have saved my sorry psyche lots of times. Thinking about this stuff gets pretty darn lonely. Without your help, I'd have gone completely mad long ago.

When you get a moment, I'd like ask your help and DU's help on this one. There's a story about a KID RUNNING BESIDE THE PRESIDENT'S LIMOUSINE AND SHOUTING "SLOW DOWN." The kid was wearing a "black raincoat" and a red shirt.

Here's the article:



Source:

http://xmb.abovetopsecret.com/viewthread.php?tid=4919

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Well it's alright

Traveling Wilburys
End Of The Line


(Well it's alright)
Ridin' around in the breeze.
If you live the life you please.
Doing the best you can.
As long as you lend a hand.
You can sit around and wait for the phone to ring.
Waiting for someone to tell you everything.
Sit around and wonder what tomorrow will bring.
Maybe a diamond ring.
(Well it's alright)
Even if they say you're wrong.
Sometimes you've gotta be strong.
As long as you've got someone to lay.
Every day is just one day.
Maybe somewhere down the road away.
You'll think of me and wonder where I am these days.
Maybe somewhere down the road when someone plays,
Purple Haze.
(Well it's alright)
Even when push comes to shove.
If you got someone to love.
Everything will work out fine.
We're going to the end of the line.
Don't have to be ashamed of the kind of car I drive.
I'm just glad to be here, happy to be alive.
It don't matter if you're by my side. I'm satisfied.
(Well it's alright)
Even if you're old and grey.
You still got something to say.
Remember to live and let live.
The best you can do is forgive.
Ridin' around in the breeze.
If you live the life you please.
Even if the sun don't shine.
We're going to the end of the line!
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Rae Corelli
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 03:37 PM by FrustratedDemInNC
Interesting info in his obituary:

Staff writer that covered the story, Rae Corelli

snip

In 1963, he covered the fallout from John F. Kennedy's assassination, including the arrest of suspected shooter Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Corelli stayed awake for two days in order to file the first dispatches back to Canada for the Star. When he finally returned to the hotel room and surrendered to sleep, the telephone rang.

Did you see it? a Toronto editor asked.

See what? Mr. Corelli replied.

Oswald's just been shot.

"He and about a dozen reporters were misled inadvertently by the Dallas police chief," his son Adam Corelli said.

snip

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename...


My guess is the story of the boy running and shouting next to the motorcade was quickly buried. Still looking for more info.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Thank you for the info, FDINC! Hey! Do you think this is Nixon with Ruby?


Naa. He looks too happy.

Still, Tricky Dick was buds with Old Jack, back in the day.

Richard Nixon's Greatest Cover-Up:
His Ties to the Assassination of President Kennedy


by Don Fulsom

EXCERPT...

As for Nixon's stated compassion for the Kennedys, let's not forget that he deeply despised them. So much so that, as president, he ordered chief White House spy E. Howard Hunt to forge diplomatic cables to make it look like President Kennedy ordered the murder of South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem. He sent another spy, Anthony Ulasewicz, to Chappaquiddick, Mass., to investigate the 1969 crash of a car driven by Edward Kennedy that killed the senator's female companion. He placed Sen. Kennedy under a 24-hour-a-day Secret Service surveillance in an effort, in Nixon's phrase, "to catch him in the sack with one of his babes." And Nixon pressed aides to plant a false story in the press linking Sen. Kennedy to the 1972 assassination attempt against Alabama Gov. George Wallace.

SNIP...

CIA agent E. Howard Hunt Richard Nixon's top confederate in past and future undercover operations may also have been in Dallas the day President Kennedy was killed. During a 1985 trial in Miami, CIA operative Morita Lorenz testified that, on Nov. 21, at a Dallas motel, she saw Hunt pay money to another agency operative Hunt pal and future Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis. She maintained that, shortly after Hunt left, Jack Ruby showed up. Lorenz returned to her home in Miami that same night, but said Sturgis later told her what she had missed in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963: "We killed the president that day."

SNIP...

In an apparent slip of the lip that got little attention at the time, a Watergate-stressed President Nixon himself suggested there was a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination. In the summer of 1973, the president publicly raised the assassination issue to divert attention from recent disclosures of a widespread government wiretapping operation. He claimed that Robert Kennedy, as attorney general, had authorized a larger number of wiretaps than his own administration. "But I don't criticize it," he declared, adding, "if he had ten more and as a result of wiretaps had been able to discover the Oswald Plan, it would have been worth it."

Whoops! The president apparently didn't realize his reference to "the Oswald Plan" didn't square with the government's official lone-killer finding. For if Lee Harvey Oswald had been solely responsible for the assassination, then there would not have been anyone for Oswald to conspire with about his "plan" on a bugged telephone, or otherwise. Was Nixon inadvertently revealing his knowledge that Mob leaders (Robert Kennedy's main wiretap targets) had a role in President Kennedy's slaying? Was such a belief based on information acquired as a result of Nixon's own solid ties to organized crime and the Mafia-infested Teamsters union?

CONTINUED...

http://crimemagazine.com/03/richardnixon,1014.htm

This site gives me the creeps, but this writer does a heckuva job on this story.

BTW: Your info on the Canadian journalist Rae Correli is much appreciated. The guy's reports are top-notch. I'll post what I can find, too.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
58. Kevin PHILLIPS, American Dynasty
Edited on Thu Jul-15-04 02:45 PM by seemslikeadream
nails the 1980 October Surprise to Poppy and CASEY, another VERY BIG no-no.

Watch Phillips here:

He gives a nice synopsis in a lecture available via Quicktime (please scroll down a bit):

http://www.snowshoefilms.com /

For those who like to read, here's an excellent article by Kevin Phillips and Joe Conason from Harper's from February 2000 on the very subject:

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1111/1797_300/5908609 ...


more I remember from your posts
Poppy might've been in Dallas, too...

These depict someone who slouches a lot and looks a little like Poppy in Dealey Plaza just after the President was shot not that he didn't have a perfectly plausible reason for being there, seeing how the police and eyewitnesses ran into men carrying Secret Service credentials on the grassy knoll ("Conspiracy" by Anthony Summers; "Accessories After the Fact" by Sylvia Meagher).

A suggestions: Subpoena George HW Bush were to testify on his whereabouts that day and settle matters once and for all.

http://www.ciajfk.com/images/ghwb.htm

http://www.ciajfk.com/images/ghwb-2.htm



Source:

http://www.ciajfk.com/home4.html

PS: Of course, seems a lot of interesting fellahs had that slouch...David Atlee Phillips, for one...






and don't forget
I heard Michael Beschloss say on Imus this morning

President Johnson had the car Kennedy was riding in shipped back to Washington and it was given a hard top and repainted. He used it during the rest of his time in office and so did Nixon.
He also said that the night before at a dinner Johnson said to Kennedy "I'll be glad to get you out of Dallas alive". Bescholss said that was new to him.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
100. Life defining moments of murder
This columnist captures the feeling of it all, pretty darn well.

June 16, 2004

Life defining moments of murder

DALLAS - This is my third visit to Dealey Plaza, but repeat visits do not change my reaction. The sinking feeling in my stomach returns.

Every generation has those moments, transcendent experiences that are never forgotten, that, indeed, are remembered in vivid detail, when we remember exactly where we were when we heard the news. For my parents it was Pearl Harbor and the death of Franklin Roosevelt. I was accompanied to the book depository by two adored young pals, and I asked them what it is for them. They replied, "9-11." "Yes, 9-11, that was definitely it."

For me and others of my age it was the murder of John Kennedy. It was not, regrettably, only his murder. It was also other murders, particularly in the terrible year of 1968.

When I was growing up adults used to talk about how my generation had been conditioned to fatalism by being the first generation to grow up in the shadow of the atomic bomb. I always thought the assassinations were more powerful in their effect on us. After Robert Kennedy was assassinated, Jack Newfield wrote, "Now I realized what makes our generation unique, what defines us apart from those who came before the hopeful winter of 1961, and those who came after the murderous spring of 1968. We are the first generation that learned from experience, in our innocent twenties, that things were not really getting better, that we shall NOT overcome. We felt, by the time we reached 30, that we had already glimpsed the most compassionate leaders our nation could produce, and they had all been assassinated. And from this time forward, things would get worse: our best political leaders were part of memory now, not hope. The stone was at the bottom of the hill and we were alone."

CONTINUED...

http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/06/16/opinion/my...
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
63. Only person alive in Nov 63 who "doesn't recall" where he was on 22nd!
Why would he lie? BFEE runs through Hitler, BAy of Pigs, Kennedy, Hostage October Surprise, Reagan shooting, Iran Contra, Gulf War, 2000 election, 9-11, Wellstone, Iraq war, Nick Berg...and on and on...

:puke:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. It's worse than Pokemon, ElementaryPenguin!
Kind of like with Flash Cards, I used to believe that having baseball-type conspiracy trading cards would help me track the BFEE. Wrong! Their scams, murders and treasons are too much for one mere deck of cards. Not even my nephew's Pokemon card collection, with it's sets of 150 original and 100-card starter decks and the 9-card packs have enough templates. The job requires a computer database and the brains to run them. That's where DU comes in.




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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks Octafish
This thread deserves a big

:kick:

:(
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Anytime, snoochie! The Truth will Sink the BFEE!
And when it does, the Truth shall set us Free!

Members of the Bush (Walker, etc) Family have found war profitable siince the Civil War, when they sold wagon parts or barrels or whatever. George Bush's grandfather made money off the NAZIs -- and that's according to Congress. His dad, Poppy, makes money off the petrodollars of the Middle East and stashed what he could offshore and invested the rest.

Today Smirk and the "made" members of the Bush Organized Crime Family, like Sneer and Baker, make money selling obsolete tanks and planes or whatever. They probably are too busy counting their loot to realize they are mere hentchmen for the real powers-that-be, the world's monied class, the principal beneficiaries of the assassination of the Liberal JFK.

Certainly the BFEE and its members don't act like they know they are giving their lives to the service of Satan. Consider J Edgar Hoover. Consider Allen Dulles. Consider Lyndon Johnson. None wanted the Truth about the assassination known. They all benefited the wealthiest of the wealth -- the monied class that makes money off war -- the War Party. That's why I don't put the assassination of President Kennedy past the Bushes.



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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. This song just kills me, everytime I play it:
Two Boats in the Night by Paranoid Larry

CI-Al Qaeda
FB-Iran
NB-See nothin'
JF-Came and went.
Cuz he stood up for something,
who remembers just what.
We all know what happened
But at least he stood up.

That's when they tried to take over,
but he didn't die in vain.
Since he stood up we know some of their names.

There was the Bay of Pigs fiasco
which spoiled the relations
with the chain of command,
disappearing down the line.
They insisted upon his complete cooperation
and he respectfully declined.

And Operation Zapata was the code name for the Bay of Pigs
Like the Bushes' oil company
what a funny coincidence.
And they painted two gunboats so it looked like a pleasure trip
and the Houston and the Barbara
were the boats they sailed in on....


Thanks, Larry. Though I'm sorry to say, you're not so paranoid.



Grab his album. Lots of truth and beauty.
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/paranoidlarry
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. That's poetry. That's history. That's profound.
Wow! Thanks, Minstrel Boy! That's one heck of a hymn, there. If the music wasn't as good as the lyrics, it'd be the best damn song I've ever heard. It explains how we got this way.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #69
82. That is terrific, Minstrel Boy,
Thanks for sharing - we know Larry is not so paranoid.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-15-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
73. Read Mark Lane's book
he implicates most of the Texas RW at the time, of which GHWB was an up-and-coming member.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #73
84. Thanks, Doctor! Lane's written two important books on the subject.
... "Rush to Judgment" and "Plausible Denial." The first demolishes the "lone nut gunman" theory and Warren Commission cover-up, the second examines the CIA's apparent high-level involvment in the treason. While not perfect, they're

A great bio, with a link to one of his magazine articles on the assassination:

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/Lane/Lanebio.h...

If you like to read up, you might enjoy Dr. John Newman's works on the assassination, "JFK and Vietnam" and "Oswald and the CIA."

Rats! Got to get back to my rabbit... I'll chip in more as time (and the boss) permit.
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moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
79. Back to the top with best wishes and Thanks Octafish,
May your answers be seen for the truth they contain.

You have also saved sanity for another day here many times.

Since finding DU it has become clear that

worse than having questions is

having the answers.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #79
89. Thank you, moof! DU is like going to the doctor's.
No one enjoys finding out the truth. However, it's what's needed to determine the correct course of treatment. The diagnosis for patient United States of America, a 228-year old democratic republic, is a complete (radical) BFEEectomy. Once removed, the tumor should be hermetically sealed in a concrete and steel-lined vault in perpetuity.

Regarding my own case: If it weren't for you and other DUers, I'd long ago have gone mad. For a while post-911, there aren't too many like-minded souls willing to speak up about the Bush Organized Crime Family. In March, 2002, after hearing my thoughts about "the crook Bush" one time too often, one of my best friends said that I was getting paranoid and suggested I see a doctor. I was shocked, but thanked him for his concern. A couple of weeks later, the news broke out that "Bush Knew." My buddy apologized. Thanks to you, moof, and the other good DUers, I haven't had to see the doctor.

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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
80. I've even heard
That Bush, Sr.'s CIA buddies brainwashed John Hinckley to assasinate Reagan after H.W.Bush lost the Republican nomination to Ronnie. I don't buy it, but the idea made me laugh.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. It's no rumor. The Bushes and Hinckleys go waaaaaaay back...
...to the old neighborhood in Houston. Seems finding a family friend to do the dirty work is SOP for the BFEE -- consider Oswald, Osama ... Hinckley. Guess who benefits the most?

Bush Son Had Dinner Plans With Hinckley Brother Before Shooting

The Associated Press Domestic News
March 31, 1981, Tuesday, PM cycle

HOUSTON -- The family of the man charged with trying to assassinate President Reagan is acquainted with the family of Vice President George Bush and had made large contributions to his political campaign, the Houston Post reported today.

The newspaper said in a copyright story, Scott Hinckley, brother of John W. Hinckley Jr., who allegedly shot Reagan, was to have dined tonight in Denver at the home of Neil Bush, one of the vice president's sons.
The newspaper said it was unable to reach Scott Hinckley, vice president of his father's Denver-based firm, Vanderbilt Energy Corp., for comment. Neil Bush lives in Denver, where he works for Standard Oil Co. of Indiana.

In 1978, Neil served as campaign manager for his brother, George W. Bush, the vice president's oldest son, who made an unsuccessful bid for Congress. Neil lived in Lubbock throughout much of 1978, where John Hinckley lived from 1974 through 1980.

CONTINUED...

http://www.hereinreality.com/hinckley.html


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. I wonder where Minstrel Boy has been?
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. yup, there I am!
Edited on Fri Jul-16-04 01:10 PM by Minstrel Boy
:hi:

John Judge, as usual, has much worthwhile to say about the Reagan assassination attempt Hinckley-Bush connection:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/112600.ht...

Fer instance:

What it means is that Bush was part of the planning of the take over -- and it was a take over, I believe. There were elements that matched the Kennedy assassination. Richard Bartholomew, a researcher in Texas, told me that he himself talked to Strategic Air Command bomber pilots who, like the pilots I talked to that were in the air the hour of the Kennedy assassination, told him that on March 31 they had no code books aboard.

...

All of this was to give us an early signal that this is one of their jobs. But at the same time none of Hinkley's bullets hit Reagan and that was clear from Reagan's lack of this kind of reaction. Reagan gets to the car still standing. He is pushed into the car by McCarthy. He's got some pain in his rib, which he thinks McCarthy caused by pushing him in and eventually coughs up a little blood. But even when he finally gets down to G.W. Hospital, he is still standing when comes in and walks into the hospital and they put him on the gurney. He's not at all in the same shape as everyone else that's hit by Hinkley's 38.

Then the official story changes after three or four hours and Hinkley supposedly had a 22. I went through the ABC footage and you can actually see the replacement of the 22 and the pick-up of the 38 by a Secret Service agent.

...

The head of the trauma room was there with the news anchor. The newscaster said `I understand that there were people that wanted to move President Reagan out to Bethesda Naval Hospital after he had come into your trauma room.' And the doctor said, `Yes, there were people.' There were reports that it was Secret Service up to as late as 6 a.m. the next morning, insisting to move him. But in fact, he wasn't moved and it was because this trauma room doctor said, `When someone comes into my trauma room in that condition, I don't care who they are -- President of the United States or not -- they are not going to be moved.' He doesn't understand that he saved Reagan's life.... If they had gotten Reagan to Bethesda, they could have finished the job there and then done the same phony autopsy they did on John F. Kennedy at Bethesda Hospital. But instead, this trauma room doctor intervened and kept Reagan there and then Reagan recovered in relatively safety and security.

Anyone here read the novelization of the Hinckley-Bush story, Nathaniel Blumberg's "The Afternoon of March 30"?

THE AFTERNOON OF MARCH 30, is the story of a Montana newspaperman who is at first puzzled, then curious, then finally outraged by what the national news media never told the American people about the attempt of John W. Hinckley Jr. to assassinate the president of the United States.

It is a real-life mystery story, a detective story, a newspaper story, a spy story and more than one love story. It is a polemic that explores the strange "coincidences," curious "happenstances," major discrepancies, critical omissions and possible covert disinformation activities in the wake of a bullet that came within an inch of changing the course of history. It is a story of a journalist's fierce devotion to the American ideals of freedom and justice. It is a different kind of roman clef.

Even more dangerous for the future of our country than a conspiracy to assassinate a president is a conspiracy to manipulate and control what the American people are told by the national news media. This bookamong much elseexamines the official cover-up of vital information that left scores of unanswered questions surrounding the event of the afternoon of March 30, 1981. From the book, page 6:

When it happened it was beyond the grotesque. For seconds Jonathan Blakely was stunned. John Chancellor, eyebrows raised, informed the viewers of NBC Nightly News that the brother of the man who tried to kill the president was acquainted with the son of the man who would have become president if the attack had been successful. As a matter of fact, Chancellor said in a bewildered tone, Scott Hinckley and Neil Bush had been scheduled to have dinner together at the home of the vice president's son the very next night. And, of course, the engagement had been canceled....

http://www.nathanielblumberg.com/bush.htm

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
87. Kick
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. Thanks, redqueen! Hey, remember "The Bay of Pigs Thing?"
The thinking in 1960 was that the Cuban exiles would retake their island and that they might need some help from the Pentagon. The guy in the White House, the CIA action officer as Oliver Stone called him, was Vice President Richard M. Nixon. At that time, the thinking was that Nixon would beat JFK in the fall. Things didn't turn out that way, so the tables were turned on JFK.

The CIA told the young President their plan for a Cuban exile victory would work WITHOUT American air cover and military support. The thing was the plan was already compromised. Fidel and the Soviets knew the invasion was coming. The only thing was, Allen Dulles didn't warn Kennedy.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/02/980223_pigs.htm

Well that's odd. The CIA head is telling the President to go ahead with an illegal invasion, apparently in the know that it's doomed to failure, but hoping to get the US involved in a war.

Gee. I can only guess what went through JFK's mind when Lemnitzer brought the Operation NORTHWOODS plan. That operation called for staging terrorist attacks on American civilians and military facilities in Guantanamo Bay in order to rally public support for ... an invasion of Cuba. Kennedy said, "No" and fired Lemnitzer.

But, wait. There's more treason.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis of October, 1962, hen the Joint Chiefs of Staff, almost the entire cabinet, and most of Congress that had been briefed wanted JFK to launch a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, even if it meant global nuclear war.

Thanks to Adlai Stevenson and Bobby Kennedy, the President ordered the government agencies to work out an alternative. That was the embargo. For his trouble keeping the world from ending, JFK was branded "soft" on communism and worse.

After the JFK assassination comes much more evidence indicating government duplicity in the killing. Chief among these is the concerted efforts to paint Oswald as being a communist sympathizer who wanted to shoot the President and then flee to Cuba.

Now THAT leads me to think the President's murder was a conspiracy.

PS: Odd how Kennedy's successor ignored JFK's plans to withdraw from Vietnam. Instead, LBJ used the staged Gulf of Tonkin incident to escalate US involvment, giving more power to the Military-Industrial Complex. These are the bedwetting bastids we call the BFEE.

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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
88. The internetpirate site is interesting
There is a write-up at that site about the du Pontes and tetra ethyl lead (TEL) and how being used as a 'anti-knock' agent in fuels has placed lead in the living environment that will never go away.

http://www.internetpirate.com/leadconspiracy.htm

This account of how GM smothered the open understanding of the real effects of using TEL on our health reminds me of the 'sterling' steel smelter in Detroit between 8-9 mile road off Van Dyke(?).

A by-product of steel smeltering is lead thats released in the air. This plant operated for decades until the EPA started to take soil samples in the area around this smelter. When the samples were analyzed and placed on a map, the map looked like bullseye target poster with the smelter smack in the center. The EPA recommends a lead content in a sample to be no more than 6ppm of the sample. The radius circumference line of 6ppm from the smelter at the center was about 10 miles. This area enclosed the better part of North Metro Detroit.

The soil at the smelter itself was like over 200ppm.

The information on this smelter and lead was hushed-up for decades and even after the smelter was tore down a prison was built on the same land, this lead data is not widely known.

We wonder why children's performance in schools seems to be dropping on the average? Think low level lead environmental poisoning.

I realize this is anecdotal evidence, nonetheless, I am sure that if all the information on this as well as JFK's assassination was made public, we would find out what rotten bastards the corporate owners really are.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-16-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Thanks, JellyBean1! Lead is a disaster for kids. Just like the BFEE.
The Bushes have been two of the three worst presidents in many, many ways. They've allowed companies to get away, literally, with murder. No wonder they don't like trial lawyers.

BTW, I've driven past that site hundreds of times. I take Eight Mile to avoid congestion on puke-infested 696. Thank you for the heads-up.

Regarding the environment and the JFK assassination: It seems President Kennedy understood the importance of education and technology. He wanted America to be tops in both for national defense and humanitarian reasons. Here's the speech he was to give at the Dallas Trade Mart the day he died...

Remarks Prepared for Delivery at the Trade Mart in Dallas
President John F. Kennedy


November 22, 1963

I am honored to have this invitation to address the annual meeting of the Dallas Citizens Council, joined by the members of the Dallas Assembly--and pleased to have this opportunity to salute the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest.

It is fitting that these two symbols of Dallas progress are united in the sponsorship of this meeting. For they represent the best qualities, I am told, of leadership and learning in this city--and leadership and learning are indispensable to each other. The advancement of learning depends on community leadership for financial and political support and the products of that learning, in turn, are essential to the leadership's hopes for continued progress and prosperity. It is not a coincidence that those communities possessing the best in research and graduate facilities--from MIT to Cal Tech--tend to attract the new and growing industries. I congratulate those of you here in Dallas who have recognized these basic facts through the creation of the unique and forward-looking Graduate Research Center.

This link between leadership and learning is not only essential at the community level. It is even more indispensable in world affairs. Ignorance and misinformation can handicap the progress of a city or a company, but they can, if allowed to prevail in foreign policy, handicap this country's security. In a world of complex and continuing problems, in a world full of frustrations and irritations, America's leadership must be guided by the lights of learning and reason or else those who confuse rhetoric with reality and the plausible with the possible will gain the popular ascendancy with their seemingly swift and simple solutions to every world problem.

There will always be dissident voices heard in the land, expressing opposition without alternatives, finding fault but never favor, perceiving gloom on every side and seeking influence without responsibility. Those voices are inevitable.

But today other voices are heard in the land--voices preaching doctrines wholly unrelated to reality, wholly unsuited to the sixties, doctrines which apparently assume that words will suffice without weapons, that vituperation is as good as victory and that peace is a sign of weakness. At a time when the national debt is steadily being reduced in terms of its burden on our economy, they see that debt as the greatest single threat to our security. At a time when we are steadily reducing the number of Federal employees serving every thousand citizens, they fear those supposed hordes of civil servants far more than the actual hordes of opposing armies.

We cannot expect that everyone, to use the phrase of a decade ago, will "talk sense to the American people." But we can hope that fewer people will listen to nonsense. And the notion that this Nation is headed for defeat through deficit, or that strength is but a matter of slogans, is nothing but just plain nonsense.

I want to discuss with you today the status of our strength and our security because this question clearly calls for the most responsible qualities of leadership and the most enlightened products of scholarship. For this Nation's strength and security are not easily or cheaply obtained, nor are they quickly and simply explained. There are many kinds of strength and no one kind will suffice. Overwhelming nuclear strength cannot stop a guerrilla war. Formal pacts of alliance cannot stop internal subversion. Displays of material wealth cannot stop the disillusionment of diplomats subjected to discrimination.


CONTINUED...

http://www.cs.umb.edu/jfklibrary/j112263b.htm
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