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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:23 PM
Original message
Worst Democratic President? Best Republican President?
Unfortunately, my knowledge of presidents pre-FDR is limited, so I may have to defer to the experts here.

Your thoughts?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. It doesn't make any sense to compare the parties pre-FDR.
The Democratic party is an entirely different party, as is the Republican.

I'd say Lyndon "Mr. Vietnam" Johnson was the worst Dem.

I'm not going to venture a guess as the best Repub. The one-termers have the advantage that they were limited in the damage they could do.
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I understand that completely...
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:31 PM by phillybri
But I'm still curious about that time period as well...

For instance, Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson doesn't necessarily make me proud to be a Democrat...
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RubyDuby in GA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Actually, ol' Hickory
wasn't so bad when he became President. He was very much a staunch Democrat and did a lot to strengthen the federal union. He was constantly at odds with his VP John C Calhoun (author of the Nullification Doctrine - used as justification for succeeding from the Union during the Civil War. I totally blame the Civil War on him and I'm from the South).

And we get the donkey symbol from Andy. It has been traced back to political cartoonist of that day who used to draw/describe Jackson as a stubborn donkey (or jackass as they probably intended). It came to symbolized all Democrats after him.

Sorry...have a degree in history and took an entire class on the Age of Jackson. Dying to use some of this random knowledge...........
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Don't knock LBJ
Vietnam killed his presidency, but he did much in the way of civil rights and waged a war on poverty.

And he was one hell of an imposing force. Beat the GOP at their own game by not letting them rattle him. We could use another LBJ.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. So true.
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:35 PM by calico1
Teddy Roosevelt was a staunch environmentalist. Nowadays, "Republican Environmentalist" is an oxymoron. I agree that both parties are totally different.

From FDR on I would say the best Rebublican was Eisenhower, worst Democrat, Jimmy Carter--though I love what he has done since his term ended.

Edited for spelling.
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rohit Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. the topic itself needs discussion
When you speak of the best Democratic president, do you mean one that performed better than other democrats, or one that ranked highest among all presidents that were democrat?

from what i know, the regan, g h w bush, and g w bush all drove the economy into a deficit, and therefore clinton was probably the best in recent times AND was a democrat.

also g w is the best republican president since 2001 ;)
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. that's why Ford is the best
He was only prez for a coupla years.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's mine
Worst Democratic President: James Buchanan, who failed at keeping the country together prior to the Civil War. He seemed to side more with the South, and failed horribly at bringing about a compromise.

Best Republican President: Abe Lincoln, followed by T. Roosevelt and D. Eisenhower.
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taxidriver Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. johnson/lincoln
johnson was corrupt up to his eyeballs, and perpetuated vietnam forever. i also personally think he played a role in JFK's death.

Lincoln saved the union. his freeing the slaves was secondary, and his motivation for doing so are debated, but it still happened.
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. My picks.
Best Republican President: Ever? That's gotta be Lincoln. In fact, I think Lincoln qualifies in a way that is almost unfair, so I will suggest a runner-up of Teddy Roosevelt.

Worst Democrat President: Lyndon B. Johnson. I consider the man to have been a reprehensible prick, just barely above Nixon on my Political Scorn chart. Despite his activism in the Civil Rights movement (for which I am grateful), his handling of the nation and of the Vietnam War was so attrocious. . . I simply cannot forgive it.
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lil-petunia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. took the words out of my keyboard
hard to disagree.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton. He screwed up an incredible opportunity.
And gave us the worst Republican George W Bush. No contest.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ditto.
n/t
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Clinton didnt screw anything up or give us Bush
I dont understand why so many people around here want to blame democrats because of the actions of the conservatives. Clinton never had any opportunity. The republicans took congress because of their strategy and resources. They witch hunted clinton and took control of the media. By the time Gore came around they had a monstrous media machine.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. It wasn't a "murderous media" that gave us NAFTA
"Welfare reform", weakened unions, millions without health care, "the era of big government is over ", a Republican secretary of Defense, middle of the road Supreme Court Justices to counter the like of Scalia and Thomas. etc. etc. Nor did the media give us Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones. It just exploited it.

The fact is that after eight years of being a Democratic President who also enjoyed a majority in Congress Clinton achieved very little on the social front. And who replaced him? The most reactionary Republican in modern history. And look what he has done in four years for the people he serves! Now he has total political control of the four branches of government. I hold second place to no one in my utter contempt for the "media". But throughout the Democrats showed no back bone in supporting working people they claim to represent. And Clinton acted like a complete jerk! Even after Bush got in the Dems crawled to "line up behind our President". What saved the Democratic party was Dean and the Internet.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Lincoln best R. Worst Dem? I'd have to think on that one for a while.
;)
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Here's a list
http://www.heptune.com/preslist.html#Party

Democratic (or earlier, Democratic-Republican) presidents

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
James Polk
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
Grover Cleveland
Woodrow Wilson
Franklin Roosevelt
Harry Truman
John Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton


Republican presidents
Abraham Lincoln
Ulysses Grant
Rutherford Hayes
James Garfield
Chester Arthur
Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
William Taft
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Dwight Eisenhower
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
George W. Bush



You want really bad presidents? Here are the Whigs, the predecessor to the Republican Party:

William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore


Federalists:

George Washington
John Adams


No party affiliation:

John Quincy Adams



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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Presidents
John Tyler was actually not bad as the first VP to assume office
when a President died.

I forgot to mention that Harding had terrible scandals thru out his
term, Benjamin Harrison had voting scandals.

Grover Cleveland was a good President (DEM)
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RichV Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Tyler was a disaster
Was hated by both parties. Had something like 4 of 5 Supreme Court nominees defeated as well. It's hard to be prez when nobody's on your side, I guess.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Worst and Best Presdidents
Worst Democratic President LBJ, James Buchanan
Worst Republican President GW Bush, Hoover, Nixon, Reagan

Best Republican President Lincoln(He was National Party 2nd term)

Best Democrat President FDR, Madison(DEM-REP party), Jefferson, Jackson, Clinton, John Kerry, JFK, Polk
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. FDR
He was the greatest President we have had

From the miraculous turn around from the great depression
His first 100 days the new deal

To his for sight in our defense of the country
He strengthened our Navy and armed forces in 1940 and 41
with the Essex class Aircraft Carriers, to the Submarine force
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Worst Dem: Truman Worst Repuke: Dumbya
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 12:36 PM by UdoKier
Truman for the A-bombs (LBJ a close second for dragging us into the pointless slaughter in Vietnam) , Bush for the murder of Iraq and our soldiers, and all-around incompetence and corruption.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Truman
The A-Bombs were a necessary evil, but I am glad that Truman
did that.
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I realize that that debate has been done to death here...
...so I won't get into it.

The poster asked for submissions, and I gave mine.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Best R - - Teddy R.
Bad D's LBJ for Vietnam
Woodrow Wilson Racism
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westsidexview Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. sadly clinton/clinton
clinton lost a lot for the democrats and did a lot for the republicans. clinton came in with democrats in control of congress and left with the republicans in control. his "new" democrat economics is really old republican economics. slick willy is a great character but a political enigma.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I disagree
Clinton was able to do what more liberal Democrats like McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis couldn't - win the presidency.

Clinton had to compromise and wrap up some liberal issues in ones more palatable to the right and the moderates. And I think he's a master politician and did a great job with the economy (although NAFTA has come back to bite us in the ass). He beat the Republicans at their own game, and gave the Democratic party a swift kick in the ass that was seriously needed.

If a classic liberal ran for president in '92, Bush would have gone on to another four year term. Sad, but true.

In order for classic liberalism to make a comeback, it must be brought back gradually. Nobody will win a national election on a strict liberal stance. The GOP took years and decades to cram conservatism down our throats.
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andyjackson1828 Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Wilson and Harding
I think Woodrow Wilson is the worst Democratic President. He's an out and our racist that re-segregated the Federal work force and showed <i>Birth of a Nation</a> in the White House. He had anti-war activists locked up for speaking out against WW1. I am of the opinion that the US should have stayed out the Great War. And then there is A. Mitchell Palmer and the Red Raids.




Harding did well by dying early. Sure there was Tea Pot Dome, but i've never read anything that indicated he was involved. He pardoned Eugene Debs so he could be at home with his wife for Christmas. Wilson had prosecuted him for speaking out against the war and Debs had gotten a 10 year sentence. Harding was behing the treaty that led to the greatest military reduction in history up to that point (The Washington Naval Treaty. He was probably the most progressive president on race up to his time, giving an anti-lynching speech in Brimingham, AL.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. i agree eom
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. Hands down --- Lincoln, best Republican President. Democratic...
hard to say. Even the "worst" Dem would be in the middle. Maybe a Polk who started a number of wars in the expansion of America and it's "Manifest Destiny". Still, that is mixed.

I really can't think of any in the like of Bush, Hoover, Grant or Ford (a real do nothing, guess that's what you get when you are not elected). Even Reagan and Nixon look good compared to them. Even the last few of those are a mixed bag.

There are about 10 or 12 who are neither party. The whigs or Federalists or Republican-Democrat rs of the early days. Some were bad, like Adams and the Alien-Sedition act (although he defended the Amistad slaves).

When you really think about it, most of iffy ones have a mixed bag. The only one who is a true failure in all he has done, especially given his backing and resources, it George W. "Armageddon" Bush. He will be credited for destroying the Republican Party and perhaps the Nation. Maybe even the world.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Ford did what he could with the bad hand dealt to him
The perception of the American people in 1974 toward politicians was very low. Ford had no mandate - he was appointed to the position.

While many chastise his pardoning of Nixon, I think he was right. Just think about how evil the Republicans and Democrats would be toward each other, and how angry the American people would be if Nixon went on trial. We would have become a very divided, bitter people. Ford wanted to heal the nation, and he did a good job at it. This is his legacy.

He was also the last non-conservative Republican president, and was pro-choice and pro-women's rights. He failed at stopping inflation, and he sucked up to some notorious dictators. Otherwise, he wasn't a bad president, given what he had to work with.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. .
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:05 PM by RatTerrier
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm shocked, shocked
I'm shocked, shocked that so many people think Lyndon Johnson was one of the worst. I wonder how old people are who are saying this (were you alive during his presidency?) and what their ethnicity is? I remember the 1964 election -- as a little "Colored" boy, my parents telling me as I went to sleep that if Johnson did not defeat Goldwater, we would be going "back to slavery"!!! That is no exaggeration -- that's exactly what my parents told me as I went to bed.
Johnson was the greatest president ever on civil rights, without anyone coming close. He also practically created a second New Deal in the Great Society. He inherited the Vietnam War and was blindsided by it, and his desire not to be the first American president to lose a war.

As for your original question, I agree that Lincoln is hands down the greatest Republican president. It's almost not fair to compare him to anyone else. Second greatest republicans would be a toss up between Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower. I lean toward Roosevelt, because Eisenhower was a great WWII general, which biases our feelings about his presidency, which was pretty bland.

Worst democratic president, I agree with others, is probably Buchanan, for getting the US into position for a civil war, but Andrew Johnson would have to be a close second, because he was almost impeached for his anti-Reconstruction biases.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Hmm
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:20 PM by DaveSZ
Best Dem: FDR

Worst Dem: Clinton for marring FDR's legacy

Best Repub: Lincoln

Worst Repub: It's hard to decide between Reagan and W Bush, because they are/were such evil and corrupt men.

If there had been no REagan Bush 2 wouldn't even be pres (because REagan made racism and greed acceptable again and because of his SC appointments that appointed BUsh president).



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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. It's interesting how some fall into the meme, "Clinton the worst", sure...
Maring FDR's legacy? Just how? Reagan/Bush and the Republicans have done that.

Clinton will be judged a mid to upper level (70-85%) as far as presidents go. He did prove that paying down the deficits by slight increases on taxes on the wealthy resulted in an unprecedented boom! He also showed spineless Dems and other "Politically Correct" pussies how to stand up the re-thugs and hypocrites!

Try again on your worst Dem, and try to back it up with facts, not unsubstantiated, and frankly, illogical, opinions.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. Worst Dem - Woodrow Wilson
Union buster, warmonger, anti free speech, racist...but other than that, a fine human being.

Best Rep - Lincoln
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. I agree with both picks
If it wasn't for his wife running things after he had the stroke, who knows how much longer women's suffrage would have been delayed.

Wilson is the most overrated Democrat of the 20th century, an honor I usually give to JFK, but Wilson's racism and imperialism (Fourteen Points didn't apply to Latin America, especially when the United Fruit Company was involved) trump Kennedy by a hair.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Andy Jackson/Abrham Lincoln
Pretty easy for me.
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Ishoutandscream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. Franklin Pierce worst Dem. TR - best Republican.
Edited on Mon Jul-12-04 01:11 PM by Ishoutandscream
Damn, how could I forget Lincoln! I guess because he wasn't your modern day, run of the mill Republican.
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StayOutTheBushes Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. Martin Van Buren / James A. Garfield
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. Kick
:kick:
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. favorites
My favorite Repub--Nixon and least favorite Repub--Reagan

Explaination--

Nixon's lack of ethics upset the country so much that it seemed that a repug would never again get elected in my lifetime! I love him! (and actually he accomplished some things a lefty can appreciate--he started the EPA, gave us AMTREK, opened up China, and mnay more good things). But most importantly, I have many many articles written after the impeachment--it really seemed as if the Repugs had been dealt a death blow--and the party was likely to splinter, disappear, never again hold much power--those were GREAT days!

Reagan somehow united the Repugs again, he made it "cool and popular" to be conservative and he not only consolidated the base, but he won over a lot of democrats. He moved political discourse so far to the right, that now we aren't even debating things like the death penalty very much. I hated him, hated him, hated him. But I do recommend that we study him--there is obviously a lot of stuff that a political junkie can learn from Reagan.

My favorite Democrat--Carter and least favorite Clinton

Yeah, I know, Carter was plagued by international problems and economics (not his fault). But, he is a good smart man, who has high morals and ethics. He faught for human rights, he did not sell out on his prinicples. he is a great man. Perhaps he did not have a great run as president, but I wish we had more like him.

Clinton basically became a Repug to win--he moved our party even further to the right. He does not stick to any morals or priniciples--makes me miss Carter very much. But he had a fairly successful run....as a Repug.

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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. This question should be, "Excluding Lincoln and Bucchanan..."
They would top the lists of 90% of historians and that spoils the fun of considering 20th century Presidents.

So, excluding those two... I'll say Wilson for worst Democrat and Teddy Roosevelt for best Republican.
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RichV Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
44. A. Johnson/A. Lincoln
Both legends -- one for incompetence, the other for statesmanship.
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