Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jimmy Carter asked CIA Director Bush to brief him on UFOs, and Bush

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 11:21 AM
Original message
Jimmy Carter asked CIA Director Bush to brief him on UFOs, and Bush
said no.

Okaaay.

Just a little something I discovered this morning to make my tinfoil hum like a bug zapper.

Marcia Smith stated that Carter had approached Bush and stated, "I want to have the information that we have on UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence. I want to know about this as President."

George Bush, according to Smith said, "no...that he wasnt going to give this to him...that this was information that existed on a need to know basis only. Simple curiosity on the part of the President wasnt adequate."

This Carter-Bush UFO question, referred to by Smith, was probably asked during the first 45 minutes of a multi hour briefing on November 19, 1976. This is the only time that Bush and Carter met while Carter was President-elect. Bush was replaced as DCI, once Carter became President, so there was never a meeting between the two after Carter entered the White House.

The 45 minute segment of the briefing given to the President-elect, was described by the CIA as a briefing on certain "exotic weapons and very closely held items relating to sources and methods."

http://www.presidentialufo.com/newpage11.htm

This was reiterated by Daniel Sheehan, formerly of the Christic Institute and lately of the Kucinich campaign, at the "Disclosure Project" press conference in May 2001:

Sheehan told reporters that during the Carter administration he found out about government-held UFO information that then-CIA Director George Bush, father of the current president, would not release.

Sheehan said he was then led into the National Archives, where he was shown photographs of captured UFOs, complete with what appeared to be alien writing symbols, but he was only allowed to take notes on a yellow legal pad. He traced the photos onto the cardboard back of his pad, he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/ufo010...

If you have a couple of hours, watch the video of the "Disclosure Project" press conference at the National Press Club. It can be downloaded for free here: http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm Daniel Sheehan's testimony is at about the one hour twenty minute mark.

He's followed by Dr Carol Rosin, whose story was the subject of this recent thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And if you have a few days, and don't mind people thinking you're :crazy:, pick up a copy of UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-Up 1941-1973 by Richard M Dolan. Light on speculation about what is being covered up; heavy on documentation that something is being covered up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Are you saying....
That Haliburton ALREADY has the Alien energy contract?

Were aliens part of the Cheney energy task force?

:)

Actually, interesting read. I love when this stuff trickles out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. ROFLMAO!!!! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Well, it's certainly possible that the Imperial Family aren't humans
Although, if Adolf Hitler was human, then likely so are they.

It WOULD explain why they dislike Human Beings Who Aren't of Imperial Class, if all the Imperials are face-sucking lizards...

You know, I liked it better when I thought there was ZERO chance such abusridties were true.

Probably about a 2% chance now, which is far too much for something like that, which should always remain at ZERO.

But the Busheviks ARE monsters...could they be actual MONSTERS?

Probably not, but possible...

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Ever read that David Icke stuff?
Bushco is a buncha lizards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. bush was just cheney-ing with him
there was no UFO data, but saying he wouldn't provide it gives more fuel to the nuts who spend their time on ufos instead of the real conspiracies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xocolatl Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. I agree
I spend more time than I would like to admit in the land of :tinfoilhat: reading UFO conspiracy theories, mostly for their entertainment value. Kinda like watching the X Files.

Lately, I'm thinking a lot of that stuff is actually a form of psychological warfare. If there are enough bizarre "conspiracy theories" out there, then the real conspiracies (e.g. global WMD trafficking) can be easily dismissed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. My inclination is the same as yours
It's smoke for the people who, if fundie, would be looking for signs of the "Rapture." Of course, I cannot be sure; no-one can be certain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mistress Quickly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. X-Files
that's all I'm saying: X-Files
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is amazing that we can put a person to death by the testimony of a
credible witness. But have a President of the United States who also happens to be a Nuclear Physisist say he saw a UFO and his word is not valid. :shrug: We really do live in a warped society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BGrier Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It was the planet Venus.
It's always the planet Venus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Venus for city-dwellers...
Swamp gas...for those of rural persuasion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Venus Is "Hot"

Pardon my sexism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Huh?
What President is a nuclear physicist?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. Jimmy Carter n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmm, defying a direct order of your CIC
I guess when you are handpicked by a Republican, it's okay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. so how long was bush DCIA during Carter?
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 12:52 PM by buycitgo
not very, if at all, IIRC

he was only there in 1976, long enough to help kill Letelier and Ronny Moffit

I know he offered to stay on, but Carter said no

wasn't he only there during transition, or did he stay til new appointee Turner took over

why didn't Turner fill him in

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. from the first link in the original post:
" If he (Carter) was going to do this he would have to follow a different procedure," stated Sheehan, "that was going to involve all the different branches of government in authorizing this information, because they were afraid that President Carter was going to somehow publicly reveal this. Bush told him that he was going have to go to the Science and Technology Committee of the House of Representatives, in the legislative branch, and have them ask the Congressional Research Service to issue a request to have certain documents declassified so that this process could go on.

"They were," said Sheehan, "trying to stall this thing. That was going to take a long time. . .the NSA, the CIA. . .all these groups were going to hold back documents. So the President much chagrined, decided that rather than having a major confrontation with Mr. Bush, (he) would follow this process. He contacted the science and Technology Committee of the House of Representatives. They in turn contacted the Library of Congress Research Service, and they undertook two major investigations.

...

"The first report on extraterrestrial intelligence," said Sheehan, "stated the Congressional Research Service of the official United States Congressional Library, in its official report to the President, through the House of Representatives Science and Technology Committee, concludes that there are from two to six highly intelligent, highly technologically developed civilizations in our own galaxy over and above our own."

"In the second report they had drawings of different shapes of UFOs that have been sighted," continued Sheehan. "They didnt site any particular cases, but they said that they believed there was a significant number of instances where the official United States Air Force investigations were unable to discount the possibility that one or more of these vehicles was actually from one of these extraterrestrial civilizations. They put this together, and sent it over to the President. I ended up seeing a copy of it."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. thanks, MB......was in hurry as I read this
Bush had no reason to give Carter any info then, and he was out right away.

does any of this deal with why Carter didn't pursue this at behest of Turner?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder why Valerie Plame's identity wasn't 'need-to-know'?
Then again, perhaps it was...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. If I were to be elected president...
That would be my first question! "Dude, so what's up with the UFOs? Are they real?"

Then we would get into the really important stuff, like who killed JFK, where we're keeping Jimmy Hoffa's frozen body, and when can I take a ride in the new super-secret military aircraft?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Wally Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Also
The hundred mile per gallon carbureator which the oil and auto companies bought up and supressed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. Supposedly, when Clinton named Webb Hubbell
Assistant Attorney General (good lord) he asked him to find out two things for him...

1. What's the deal with UFO's?

2. Who killed JFK?

Don't know if Hubbel ever gave him a report as he was tied up in, shall we say , ... other matters?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. 
Edited on Fri Jul-09-04 04:33 PM by Lisa
This GHWB statement really stands out. Regardless of what one believes about UFOs, does anybody else find it bizarre that even the US President (a respected military man, judged to be intelligent and level-headed even before he ran for the White House) would be rebuffed in such a way?

What would you have to do to get a straight answer out of GHWB, if winning a Presidential election wasn't enough? Suppose Carter had asked about "the long-term plans of those Islamic extremists you wanted us to fund in Afghanistan", or "the status of the Soviet nuclear arsenal", or other things which are arguably more pressing than possible UFO sightings?

What else did they not reveal to Carter? And Clinton, and other elected public officials?


p.s. what would today's White House do to an intelligence officer who played coy with them about something they wanted to know?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. It;s bullshit.
And if it's true Carter is a oward. I would have had GHWB drawn and quartered for saying something like that to me if I was the prez.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Wally Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. ummmm
Carter wasn't the president then, Ford was. As soon as he got into office, Carter got his own man in the CIA and essentially fired GHWB. What more do you want Carter to do??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. Not even dealing with the UFO thing, POPPY Bush gets DAILY CIA briefings..
.. and Bush can't give Carter any info? I though Poppy Bush's daily CIA briefings were standardly available to ALL former presidents... but Carter can't get info on UFOs? Secretive M.F.s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Wally Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. Carter could have had
daily CIA briefings whn he was president. I would think that he did, but do not know. When GHWB briefed Carter, Carter was president-elect, notpresident. He was being given a courtesy pre-brief by the outgoing administration. GHWB worked for President Ford, not Carter in Novemeber 1976. Carter got rid of Bush when he took office in Jan 1977 and could ask the CIA any damn thing he might have wanted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. Answers why Bushie Jr so eager to go to Mars
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. He DOESN'T want to go to Mars...
...he just wants to stand in front of a podium to announce a Big Program, and hand out fat contracts to his pals. How much actually will actually trickle down to the program? Well...

Don't bet on actually getting to Mars anytime soon...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Oh come on let's send Bush* to Mars..... Pleeeassse.
I want him to go more than he does I'll bet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. But worthwhile people also want to go to Mars.
Send Shrub to Jupiter. All the hydrocarbons he wants in its atmosphere, and as a pro-nuclear guy he has nothing to worry about from its radiation belts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. Think Carter asked him about the Nazi Moon Bases?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Bush ufo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. PNAC and the militarization of space
According to news reports, George W. Bush will soon announce a new lunar exploration initiative. I've been a fan of America's space program since its inception, going back to the time we sent chimpanzees into suborbital space (maybe this wasn't such a bad idea), so, all joking aside, it is important to me to learn what is behind all this new space posturing.

The one single constant in the Bush Administration has been strict adherence to the doctrine outlined by our friends from the Project for a New American Century. Given this, examination of any Bush proposal must be viewed through the lenses of the PNACers who drive this administration's heart, soul, and policy.

Since they have been transparent and blatant enough to post their doctrine and related musings on line for all to see, let's steel ourselves and look straight into the eye of this beast.

Let's review this memorandum, from August of 2001 by Tom Donnelly, Deputy Executive Director of PNAC:

<snip>

August 2, 2001

MEMORANDUM TO: OPINION LEADERS

FROM: TOM DONNELLY, Deputy Executive Director

SUBJECT: Defense

Talking to a group of defense writers yesterday, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Ryan uttered an uncomfortable truth when he admitted that the United States -- indeed, the world -- is engaged in a military competition in space that soon may feature offensive weapons capable of attacking adversaries satellites and eventually even targets on earth. While Ryans remarks sparked some predictable talk of an arms race in space, the fact is that space has been militarized for decades and control of space is fundamental to maintaining American military preeminence.

Even today U.S. forces depend on control of space for communications, intelligence, precision guidance of munitions and other important missions. As the 1997 report of the National Defense Panel concluded, Unrestricted use of space has become a major strategic interest of the United States. But with the mushrooming of commercial space activities (more than 1,100 companies in more than 50 countries are developing, building and operating space systems), the line between military and civilian space use is blurring. Americas advantages in space are keys to our exercise of global power, but also create vulnerabilities our adversaries are anxious to exploit. Space is fast becoming the high seas of the future, and space power the equivalent of thesea power that propelled first Great Britain and then the United States on the path to global leadership. Control of the emerging international commons of space will do much to determine the future shape of international politics here on earth.

These challenges are well understood by the Defense Department and the Bush Administration more broadly. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld chaired a recent congressionally-mandated commission on the future of space, which recognized that we know from history that every medium -- air, land and sea -- has seen conflict. Reality indicates that space will be no different. The panel also concluded that given this virtual certainty, the must develop the means both to deter and to defend against hostile acts in and from space. And Ryans comments are surely a preview of a central tenet of the forthcoming Quadrennial Defense Review. Space war may sound like science fiction, but it is a competition the United States must prepare to win, perhaps even to the point of creating a new branch of the armed services. In space as on earth, we preserve the peace by maintaining our strength.

</snip>

http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20010802.htm
____________________________________________________________________

So there it is. Preserve the peace by maintaining our strength. We "must" prepare to win a space war, even to the extent that we would add a new branch of the Armed Services. Are you with us so far?

When the PNACers talk, we should listen.

That's not good. But you already knew that.



bigtree

more
In September 2000, the PNAC drafted a report entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century." 56

The conservative foundation- funded report was authored by Bill Kristol, Bruce Jackson, Gary Schmitt, John Bolton and others. Bolton, now Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security, was Senior Vice President of the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

The report called for: ". . . significant, separate allocation of forces and budgetary resources over the next two decades for missile defense," and claimed that despite the "residue of investments first made in the mid- and late 1980s, over the past decade, the pace of innovation within the Pentagon had slowed measurably." Also that, "without the driving challenge of the Soviet military threat, efforts at innovation had lacked urgency."

The PNAC report asserted that "while long-range precision strikes will certainly play an increasingly large role in U.S. military operations, American forces must remain deployed abroad, in large numbers for decades and that U.S. forces will continue to operate many, if not most, of today's weapons systems for a decade or more."

The PNAC document encouraged the military to "develop and deploy global missile defenses to defend the American homeland and American allies, and to provide a secure basis for U.S. power projection around the world."

You can hear the pitch of former Lockheed executive Bruce Jackson, hawking in favor of his company's space weaponry:
-Control the new International commons' of space and cyberspace, and pave the way for the creation of a new military service with the mission of space control. (U.S. Space Forces; eventually realized in the form of the Air Force-financed Lockheed Space Battle Lab

-Exploit the "revolution" in military space affairs to insure the long-term superiority of U.S. conventional forces.
-Establish a two-stage transformation process which maximizes the value of current weapons systems through the application of advanced technologies.

The paper claimed that, "Potential rivals such as China were anxious to exploit these technologies broadly, while adversaries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea were rushing to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons as a deterrent to American intervention in regions they sought to dominate. Also that, information and other new technologies as well as widespread technological and weapons proliferation were creating a dynamic' that might threaten America's ability to exercise its dominant' military power."

The Chinese would dispute the PNAC assertion that they pose a threat to the U.S.; as far as I know, there is still a normalization of relations between our two countries. Perhaps they are alluding to the transfer of weapon's technology between nations; or the threat to Taiwan. In any case, the conservative document's allusion to U.S. "dominant military power" sounds a lot like destabilization to me.

Between peaceful nations, parity and balance of our respective forces and weaponry is the maxim in our expressions of our defense and security goals. Any open declaration of the need for military dominance is an invitation to a dangerously competitive, world-wide arms race.

In reference to the nation's nuclear forces, the PNAC document asserted that, " reconfiguring its nuclear force, the United States also must counteract the effects of the proliferation of ballistic missiles and weapons of mass destruction that may soon allow lesser states to deter U.S. military action by threatening U.S. allies and the American homeland itself."

"The (Clinton) administration's stewardship of the nation's deterrent capability has been described by Congress as "erosion by design," the group chided.

The authors further warned that, "U.S. nuclear force planning and related arms control policies must take account of a larger set of variables than in the past, including the growing number of small nuclear arsenals from North Korea to Pakistan to, perhaps soon, Iran and Iraq and a modernized and expanded Chinese nuclear force."

In addition, they counseled, "there may be a need to develop a new family of nuclear weapons designed to address new sets of military requirements, such as would be required in targeting the very deep underground, hardened bunkers that are being built by many of our potential adversaries."

The 2002 PNAC document is a mirrored synopsis of the Bush administration's foreign policy today. President Bush is projecting a domineering image of the United States around the world which has provoked lesser equipped countries to desperate, unconventional defenses; or resigned them to a humiliating surrender to our rape of their lands, their resources and their communities.

President Bush intends for there to be more conquest - like in Iraq - as the United States exercises its military force around the world; our mandate, our justification, presumably inherent in the mere possession of our instruments of destruction.

Our folly is evident in the rejection of our ambitions by even the closest of our allies, as we reject all entreaties to moderate our manufactured mandate to conquer. Isolation is enveloping our nation like the warming of the atmosphere and the creeping melt of our planet's ancient glaciers.

We are unleashing a new, unnecessary fear between the nations of the world as we dissolve decades of firm understandings about an America power which was to be guileless in its unassailable defenses. The falseness of our diplomacy is revealed in our scramble for useable', tactical nuclear missiles, new weapons systems, and our new justifications for their use.

The PNAC Rebuilding America' report was used after the Sept. 11th terrorist attacks to draft the 2002 document entitled "The National Security Strategy of the United States," which for the first time in the nation's history advocated "preemptive" attacks to prevent the emergence of opponents the administration considered a threat to its political and economic interests.

It states that ". . . we will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by acting preemptively against such terrorists, to prevent them from doing harm against our people and our country." And that, "To forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries, the United States will, if necessary, act preemptively."

This military industry band of executives promoted the view, in and outside of the White House that, " must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the United States and our allies and friends. . . We must deter and defend against the threat before it is unleashed."

Peace through strength; big kid on the block,' is a posture which is more appropriately used to counter threats by nations; not to threats by rouge individuals with no known base of operations.

Their strategy asserts that "The United States has long maintained the option of preemptive actions to counter a sufficient threat to our national security. The greater the threat, the greater is the risk of inaction - and the more compelling the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves, even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack."

So their plan is to attack whomever, whenever they feel our security is threatened, no matter if the nature and prevalence of the attack is uncertain. The U.N. should have studied this document before it wasted its time trying to reign President Bush in.

I plucked this from my book 'Power Of Mischief'


ithacan

Global Network Against Weapons and Nuclear Power in Space
Here's a great site with tons of info on US plans to "dominate" space:
Global Network Against Weapons and Nuclear Power in Space http://www.space4peace.org /

Here's an article by the director of the network:
Space Warriors
Iraq War Emboldens Bush Space Plans

By BRUCE GAGNON

Military victory in the Iraq war has emboldened the Pentagon in their claims that space technology gives the U.S. total advantage in time of war. According to Peter Teets, undersecretary of the Air Force and director of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), American capability in space, "must remain ahead of our adversaries' capabilities, and our doctrine and capabilities must keep pace to meet that challenge."

"I think the recent military conflict has shown us, without a doubt, how important the use of space is to national security and military operations," Teets, a former Lockheed Martin executive recently said.

In order to accomplish the goal of technologically leapfrogging the space program to the point of global "control and domination" a new agreement has been signed by NASA, U.S. Strategic Command, the NRO and the Air Force Space Command to fully mesh all their research and development efforts together. Thus, we witness the takeover of the U.S. space program by the military and the weapons corporations.
<more>
http://www.counterpunch.org/gagnon08082003.html


bigtree

back to space

Bush talked up the renewal of the Star Wars program during the campaign, money was put into research, and the program is waiting for the war to die down so they can pump more money in.

In the 2004 defense budget, Congress appropriated $100 million to reinstate one of the canceled missile defense tests. The total amount the administration requested for Ballistic Missile Defense: $9.1 billion; Senate's bill: $9.1 billion.

Lockheed and possibly Raytheon stands to receive the lion's share of future space contracts because of Boeing's suspension for spying on Lockheed.

-Peter B. Teets, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force, is the former president and chief operating officer of Lockheed Martin who retired from the company in late 1999.

Teets now serves as the director of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), Undersecretary of the Air Force, and chief procurement officer for all of military space, controlling a budget in excess of $65 billion, a figure that includes $8 billion a year for missile defense and $7 billion annually for NRO spying.

To date it is believed that the NRO has provided more than $500 million each to Lockheed-Martin and Boeing. "A key player in supplying revolutionary breakthrough technology has been, and will continue to be, the National Reconnaissance Office," Teets said February in a Pentagon briefing.

Teets boasted that the military makeover now underway is geared to "make the world's best space forces even better."

Former Lockheed president, Bruce Jackson and former Lockheed counsel, Hadley have worked closely together on the Committee to Expand NATO. Jackson was president of this entity, based in the Washington offices of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute; Hadley was its secretary.

As reported by Karl Grossman of the Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space, Stephen Hadley told an Air Force Association Convention in a speech September 11, 2000, "Space is going to be important. It has a great feature in the military,"

-James G. Roche, Secretary of the Air Force is a former president of Northrop-Grumman, a subsidiary of Lockheed. "We have encouraged and exploited the rapid advancement and employment of innovative technologies and have taken significant action to implement the findings of the Space Commission in our new role as the executive agent for space," he said to a Senate committee in 2002.

-Sean O'Keefe, NASA Administrator was on a paid advisory board of Northrop Grumman, and Raytheon.

With a share of 24% of U.S. arms exports, Lockheed-Martin is the world's largest arms exporting company. Lockheed leads the pack of defense contractors who do business with the U.S. with valuable Pentagon contracts worth a total of nearly $30 billion and an advertised $70 billion backlog

Lockheed leads the defense industry in lobbying expenditures. Lockheed Martin made over $10.6 million in campaign contributions to candidates and party committees from 1990 to 2000, including $3.4 million in donations in the run-up to the year 2000 elections.


JOVIAN SPACE NEWS SERVICE- Interplanetary Edition
Serving the Jovian moons of Ganymede, Callisto and Europa.
Space Travelers Come in Peace; Turned Back, Nonetheless.

(Europa) Today marked two historic firsts for Europa. Space travelers from a distant planet, believed by many to be uninhabitable because of its toxic atmosphere, locked into our planet's orbit and were quickly intercepted by our interplanetary space patrol.

The travelers are apparently the first-ever recorded visitors to Europa from a planet far beyond our tri-moon system.

The travelers reportedly communicate by projecting the air into the other's orifices in modulated waves. All attempts by the patrol to connect with their inner voice have encountered only static and clutter, making communication difficult if not impossible.

The interplanetary patrol also experienced another first in their encounter with the travelers which was met with much alarm as the patrol reported their discovery to the interplanetary council.

Apparently, the traveler's spacecraft is powered, in part, by a nuclear reactor system. According to Europan law, concentrated radioactive devices have been extremely prohibited since the planet lost its natural atmosphere from the misuse of these materials.

The travelers were regrettably forced out of orbit and are assumed to be returning to their native planet, perhaps to perish in the toxic haze which covers their
dying home.


The military certainly can't wait

This is back from 1997:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usspac/visbook.p ... (1 MB .pdf)

"US Space Command--dominating the space dimension of military operations to protect US interests and investment. Integrating Space Forces into warfighting capabilities across the full spectrum of conflict."
(even in snazy 'Star Wars'-style words disappearing into the distance"!)

An interesting glimpse of how the US military views globalization:
"The globalization of the world economy will also continue, with a widening between haves and have-nots."
No 'rising tide raises all boats' there, eh?

"USSPACECOM must assume a dynamic role in planning and executing joint military operations. Included in that planning should be the prospects for space defense and even space warfare.
Development of ballistic missile defenses using space systems and planning for precision strike from space offers a counter to the worldwide proliferation of WMD."

"The space AOR is global and requires a combatant commander with a global perspective to conduct military operations and support regional warfighting CINCs. USSPACECOM is the only military organization with operational forces in space. Establishing space as an AOR merely states an operational reality."

"Control of Space is the ability to assure access to space, freedom of operations within the space medium, and an ability to deny others
the use of space, if required."

"Global Engagement combines global surveillance with the potential for a space-based global precision strike capability."

Bush: Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country. And we will help them rid Iraq of these killers
Vote Bush: Not Quite As Evil As Saddam
Habitual Liars led by the worst president ever
The presidents job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he wont realise this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it.



seemslikeadream

This is exactly what the genocide in Congo is all about
The industrial enterprises that set up AMFI, according to Baracyetse, "are interested in the contract for the construction of the orgital platform around the world that is destined to replace the Russian station MIR."

This project is part of the $60 billion so-called National Missiel Defense system that George W. Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell and Vice President Richard Cheney are pushing so vigorously. Building the space station will require many of the rare metals found in eastern Congo.

Another big player in the eastern Congo is Barrick Gold Corp., headquartered in Canada. It is the world's second-largest gold producer after Anglo-American of South Africa.

This company was able in 1996 to get the Mobutu regime's Gold Office of Kilomoto, a government monopoly, to transfer mining rights over almost all its 82,000 square kilometers of land to Barrick. The land is estimated to have 100 tons of gold in reserve.

George Bush Sr. sat on the board of directors of Barrick, according to Baracyetse.

http://www.minesandcommunities.org/Company/kabila1.htm

Just in case you hadn't heard

George Bush Sr., in his last days in office gave Barrick $10 billion gold mining rights on US public land, citing an 1870's law.

Three million lives have been lost in Congo since 1998

and people compare bush to Hilter, where do they get ideas like that

The Lost World War

The war on Iraq is not the only war in the world and it is not the only war being fought for our material benefit.

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is possibly the most rich place on earth - though this has proved a curse to the people of the Congo. The Congo holds millions of tons of diamonds, copper, cobalt, zinc, manganese, uranium and coltan. Coltan, a substance made up of columbium and tantalum, is a particularly valuable resource - used to make mobile phones, night vision goggles, fiber optics, and mirco-capacitors.

Coltan looks like black mud, but is three times heavier than iron and only slightly lighter than gold. It is found in abundance in eastern Congo and can be mined with minimal equipment. Coltan is vital to the high tech economy. Wireless electronic communication would not exist without it. The "mud" is refined into tantalum - a metallic element that is both a superb conductor of electricity and extremely heat-resistant. Tantalum powder is a vital component in capacitors, for the control of the flow of current in miniature circuit boards. Capacitors made of tantalum are found inside every laptop pager, personal digital assistant, and ,mobile phone. Tantalum is also used in the aviation and atomic energy industries. ....It is generally believed, however, that 80% of the world's reserves are in Africa, with DRC accounting for 80% of the African reserves.

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/newsletter/issue13/iss ...


Bush and Mars

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov /
http://spacescience.nasa.gov/missions/prometheus.htm
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/jimo
http://www.angelfire.com/stars2/projectorion


NASA's new mission claims to place a high priority on the search for life beyond Earth. NASA touts recent discoveries on Mars and the moons around Jupiter, which they say indicates that there may be or have been habitable environments on these worlds that supported the development of life.

That's the official story.

What's actually behind the White House's hawking of this space mission is their desire to promote and legitimize the industry's new nuclear propulsion technology needed to support such a mission. That would be another in a long list of moneymaking boondoggles for the aerospace industry.

To develop and demonstrate these new nuclear power and propulsion technologies, President Bush's budget proposes $279 million; ($3 billion over five years) for Project Prometheus, which builds on the Nuclear Systems Initiative started last year.

Project Prometheus includes the development of the first nuclear-electric space mission, called the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter. This mission will conduct extensive, in-depth studies of the moons of Jupiter that may harbor subsurface oceans. Only advanced nuclear reactors could provide the hundreds of kilowatts of power the craft would need.

Included in NASA plans for the nuclear rocket to Mars; a new generation of Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs) for interplanetary missions; nuclear-powered robotic Mars rovers to be launched in 2003 and 2009. NASA touts future mining colonies on the Moon, Mars, and asteroids that would be powered by nuclear reactors.

The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, manages the Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science. Additional science partners are located at the Russian Aviation and Space Agency and at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the project to develop and build the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and JPL.

The Prometheus Project is based on an archaic notion that began in the '50's with a space project named Orion.

Project Orion was a propulsion system that depended on exploding atomic bombs roughly two hundred feet behind the space vehicle.

Orion was developed at the old General Dynamics Corporation, under the guidance of several former Manhattan Project scientists.

In the late 1950's, Freeman Dyson, physicist, educator, and author, joined the Orion Project research team. The project's participants proposed exploding atomic bombs at regular intervals at very short distances behind a specially designed space ship in order to propel it to the Moon and other planets in the Solar System far more quickly and cheaply than with chemical-fuel rockets.

The motto for Orion was, 'Mars by 1965, Saturn by 1970'; hauntingly reminiscent of the administration's line about Project Prometheus exploring Mars and Europa's moons.

Orion ran out of money and needed the government's help. The military agreed to take up the project, but only on the condition that it adapt itself to a military purpose. The project was later abandoned because of uncertainty about the safety and efficacy of nuclear energy, and the high cost of the speculative program. Also, because the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty of 1963 outlawed it.

"Technology must be guided and driven by ethics if it is to do more than provide new toys for the rich," Dyson, 76, said, as he received the Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion 2000.

Dyson once commented that, "Project Orion is a monument to those who once believed, or still believe, in turning the power of these weapons into something else."

Since the 1960s there have been eight space nuclear power accidents by the U.S. and the former Soviet Union, several of which released deadly plutonium into the Earth's atmosphere. In April, 1964 a U.S. military satellite with 2.1 pounds of plutonium-238 on-board fell back to Earth and burned up as it hit the atmosphere spreading the toxic plutonium dust, God knows where.

In 1997 NASA launched the Cassini space probe carrying 72 pounds of plutonium. If it had crashed or exploded in our atmosphere thousands could have been contaminated. During the Cassini RTG fabrication process at Los Alamos 244 cases of worker contamination were reported to the DoE.

Mum to all of that, the White House wants you to know that the nuclear space project will prove new technologies for future NASA missions. Like space-based weaponry.

The decision by U.S. President George W. Bush to withdraw from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty allows research beneficial to orbiting space-based lasers as part of a global missile defense shield to resume; orbiting space lasers on permanent space platforms.

Despite the administration and industry talk of Europa's moons, the Prometheus Project will pave the way for the original Pentagon plan to mount nuclear reactors on space-based platforms to power their nuclear lasers. And of course, as the Space Command also asserts, ". . . the United States must also have the capability to deny America's adversaries the use of commercial space platforms, for military purposes" Enough!

This Promethus project is a cynical attempt to commit the nation to Rumsfeld's Star War's nonsense. Bush and Europa's moons: I don't believe them!

A space-based laser system would only encourage other nations to build space-nukes to counter ours. The move to expand this type of weaponry will almost certainly provoke a space-based weapon war.

Maybe we can shoot this crazy laser down before then.

give the soldiers what they were promised



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
30. This subject is classified "Above Top Secret."
Edited on Sat Jul-10-04 11:28 AM by Octafish
... which was the name of the book by Timothy Goode on the subject. Those who've done any reading and research in the field take the matter most seriously -- UFO reports exist. What UFOs are, and the underlying reasons for them, are open to interpretation, but deserve serious scientific exploration.

The first name that comes to mind is the late Northwestern astronomer and USAF Blue Book Project Scientist J Allen Hynek. Next comes his protege:

Jacques Vallee computer scientist, paranormal researcher, and venture capitalist described the workings of the world as that of an associative universe. Somehow the mind works as a rudder that helps steer our experiences toward things and events that seem outside of our control, yet are more likely to occur because of our awareness. The theory like Positive Thinking has great applications in Politics.

From an essay about serendipitous discovery, The Library Angel, comes a decent overview of the phenomenon:

Excerpt

When a highly unlikely, textual coincidence occurred during a Los Angeles cab ride to astrophysicist Jacques Vallee, he was inspired to consider the nature of chance. Pondering the often-cited (and mysterious) equivalence of energy and information, Vallee decided "we live in the associative universe of the software scientist rather than the sequential universe of the space-time physicist."

Vallee's obscure concept sums up the egghead approach to this phenomenon. More fun is to imagine there really is a library angel. Not as some schoolmarm with mottled wings, from cosmic central casting -- but rather, as a Hepburn-ish archangel from the Bureau of Coincidence. With sly humour, she zooms about book stacks, dumping a pixie-dust of cross-references on amazed readers and researchers (that's my angel, you can imagine your own).

Continued

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/3452/libangel.htm

PS: Thanks for a great post, Minstrel Boy!



Tippo: double-posted text.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Ya ever notice how nobody EVER gets
a really clear, 35mm or, better yet, digital, ungrained image of a UFO?

HHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. and pre-Photoshop... They are out there
Edited on Sat Jul-10-04 04:09 PM by indigobusiness
http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/ufophotographs.shtml

The sharpest ones are the most suspect.




New Mexico 1972

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Rats, the link's've expired.
What are the locations of the photos, indigobusiness? I'd like to look 'em up.

Here's are a few of my favorites, from a series of four (or five?) taken by county highway inspector Rex Heflin near Santa Ana, Calif. in 1965:



I've seen blow-ups of the frame on the left (a Polaroid original, IIRC) - the dust-n-dirt on the ground directly underneath the object can be seen to be disturbed. The area, just off the shoulder of the road, is circular, about 30-feet in diameter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. The page link is still hot
don't know why the photos didn't work
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Interesting observation.
There are cases where people had their 35 around their necks, but were so astounded by what they were seeing they couldn't raise the camera up, let alone focus or press the shutter button.

Some of the better photos have been put under analysis. See the work of Bruce Maccabee for background.

Some researchers hired by LIFE magazine used digitized the negatives and analyzed the density of the objects in the background as well as the unidentified objects to determine how far away the things were from the camera.



In this photo from 1950, the object was about a three-fourths of a mile away and estimated to be 100-feet across. I don't know what it is, but it doesn't look like an airplane or swamp gas to me.

SOURCE:

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/500511.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Octafish and Minstrel Boy: Did you ever read "The Day After Roswell"?....
If not, check out this review.

By the way, I read it several years ago and found it to be VERY interesting. The reverse engineering portions of the book were fascinating and totally believable.

<http://www.naturalhealthholistic.com/corso.html >
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I haven't read it; thanks for the tip. I've also been reading this week
The Hunt for Zero Point, by Jane's Aviation Editor Nick Cook. Good stuff. And Dolan's book is a mind blower.

It takes extremely incurious and gullible minds to accept that nothing is happening but sightings of Venus and swamp gas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. Yes, Col. Philip Corso's story seems fantastic, but the story fits.
The Roswell story is worth investigating. Those interested in getting a good overview might want to start with works by Kevin Randle , Stanton Friedman or Charles Berlitz.

It was 1947 and rancher Mac Brazel heard a crash and found some strange wreckage covering a field. Major Jesse Marcel is sent out to pick up some wreckage. He returns with a car-full and shows his kid some pieces with fantastic properties - ultra-strong, featherweight metal pieces and a foil that could be folded into a tiny packet and it would unfold. The Army Air Corps said they retrieved a crashed flying saucer and released an official press release so stating. The next day the Pentagon cracks down and says it was just a weather balloon and releases a picture of Marcel holding a piece of weather balloon fabric. Meanwhile Brazel's ranch is sealed off and combed clean. Many of the witnesses are still alive.

Some interesting facts: The base's commanding officer eventually became a high ranking USAF general. The base's executive officer and the aircraft he was aboard later disappeared over the North Atlantic.

Gee. When did the national security state start, again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. Dolan's book is GREAT -- incredible information, well researched.
I read it three or so years ago when it was self published. It is now available from Hampton Roads.

Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/157174317...

Dolan also has a very interesting email list that he posts to once every few months about research he is doing on the second volume.

This is an EXCELLENT book for people who DO NOT believe in UFO's -- not because it will convince you that UFOs exist but because it will convince you that the US military and government have been involved in COVER-UPS and PUBLIC MIND CONTROL operations for decades.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Dolan's website:
http://keyholepublishing.com/index.html

Looks like we may have volume two in a year or so.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Thanks. Yes, I'm familiar with his site and his writings such as this one
From his essay "We hate truth":
I grew up believing all the typical things about my country. That America was the worlds land of "freedom." That Americas wars were all just. That people naturally seek truth and freedom.

Most Americans still tell themselves these things. How many people really want to know what their society is doing? Who wants to put the pieces together and question whether the entire social and economic structure of ... well ... our civilization is not only suicidal (increasingly, a few of us are figuring that one out) but also immoral?

That the shallowness and emptiness of American culture is itself largely to blame for the horrific and apparently widespread instances of torture of (innocent) foreign civilians? That the constant spread of faux-grand mansions in our never-ending suburban sprawl (complete with double-wide driveway and SUV) is an affront and assault on what was once a beautiful natural world? That by dropping our kids off in daycare or even many (most) of our public schools, we abdicate the job of parenting? That by spending our entire lives deluged with poisonous advertising and commercial culture, our commitment to things has outweighed our commitment to people?

Can you imagine what someone of the past anyone more than a century ago would think upon seeing our society?

More: http://keyholepublishing.com/We_hate_truth.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Ultimately, the target of Haines' message was you.
The CIA, Official History, and You:
A Study of Gerald Haines and UFOs

by Richard M. Dolan

copyright 2000 by Richard M. Dolan
All rights reserved



Former CIA Director Allen Dulles used to say that if you want to keep a secret, then pretend to share it. Gerald Haines, the official historian of the CIA, has pretended to share a secret. He has admitted to the world that, yes, the CIA really was interested in UFOs for a while, even while denying this at the time. The Agency was merely tracking the public's sightings of its aircraft. "Ah," exclaims the public, "we were right!"

This kind of thing happens frequently in our world. The point of such media announcements is not to persuade those with any specific knowledge. A much lower threshold of persuasion usually does the job: sow enough doubt in the public mind about a particular topic so that effective action is prevented.

A notable example of this type of activity occurred just a year before Haines' article, when journalist Gary Webb published the scoop of a lifetime: an investigation of the relationship between the CIA, the Nicaraguan Contras, and the importation of crack cocaine. The contras, Webb argued, were making money as the middlemen in the drug trade. Since they were coordinated by CIA, the Agency had to know, and assent. Webb had done his homework, but the Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and New York Times ripped him viciously. Within a year, he was out of work.

Analysts of the CIA have long known that the Agency has connections to the world of narcotics trafficking. Webb's thesis in particular has been supported by much evidence from other researchers. But the issue is so explosive that it needs to be disabled, even if it cannot be disproved. In savaging Webb, did the mainstream press do the CIA's work? All we can say with certainty is that the CIA has tried to manipulate the media since its inception, and admitted in the 1970s that it had working (e.g. paid) relationships with over 400 American journalists. Indeed, a recent study by Frances Stoner Saunders, The Cultural Cold War, lays out the amazing infiltration by the CIA within every niche of the cultural sphere during the Cold War years. Lest one think such activities are an artifact of those bad old days, the CIA admitted again in the 1990s that it continued to maintain "relationships" with undisclosed American journalists for reasons of national security.

Such relationships couldn't have anything to do with the savaging of Gary Webb, could they? And so it goes in our surreal little world. America's government fights narcotraffickers, and that's that.

A great deal of serious persuasion (to say nothing of distraction) must take place to get ordinary citizens to consent to a society as top-heavy as our own. Quite simply, people need to be managed, and human history provides endless variations on this theme. But the public is not so easy to drive as, say, a car. One cannot simply insert the key and go. The more correct analogy would be with a horse: an animal with a will that needs to be broken and then directed. One must be a good trainer and rider to do this. At times the animal may get the better of you, at times you need to make important concessions to keep it happy and ultimately malleable. But a good rider can usually do the job.
http://keyholepublishing.com/Haines.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #43
55. Good advice from Allan Dulles:
"if you want to keep a secret, then pretend to share it."

In the mid-70s, when the CIA "came clean" about Operation Mongoose and MK-ULTRA to the Church Committee, so many observers took it at face value. It was as if a defendent was allowed to provide and vet the evidence against it in a criminal trial.

Mind control? Oh sure, the CIA was interested, but it was a failure and they gave it up. Hell, they said so!

BTW, here's some free advice I read recently from Richard Helms: if you want to keep a secret, don't write it down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. Are Area 51 and Hagar 18 involved?
the return of Cold War paranoia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. I've had this
//And if you have a few days, and don't mind people thinking you're , pick up a copy of UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-Up 1941-1973 by Richard M Dolan. Light on speculation about what is being covered up; heavy on documentation that something is being covered up.//

on the shelf collecting dust for several years...I was so blown away by the companion video (enough to set even the most fire retardant tinfoil hat ablaze) that I neglected the text....might be time for a revisit.

Problem is we're so inundated with provable political shenanigans that to spend time on otherworldly ventures seems like a timesink.

thanks for reminding me tho...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. Sleight of hand and distraction keeps the focus on the bs
While deeper issues are scandalized, ridiculed and made a joke of by the puppet masters. Mass popular delusion keeps us all in the dark about so many things, while we launch into lofty arguments thinking we have enough of the picture to make a respectable effort. We don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. for those that haven't seen
the video...It has the infamous shuttle footage of the energy weapon being fired from earth into the heavens , and what appears to be a ball of light take a very decisive evasion maneuver and dart of screen at a very unearthly rate of speed.

:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Seen it....compelling stuff
SR-28, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xocolatl Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
57. Otherworldy Ventures: timesink?
Problem is we're so inundated with provable political shenanigans that to spend time on otherworldly ventures seems like a timesink.

I disagree that such an endeavor is a timesink. The only way the political shenanigans can be understood is by surfing through the literature on otherworldly ventures.

I don't believe every crazy :tinfoilhat: conspiracy theory posted on the web is (necessarily) the literal truth. However, even the most outlandish narratives (e.g. David Icke) offer insight into our collective unconscious, in which hides many of the secrets we might wish to expose.

In other words, brain-sucking sauroids in collusion with our government probably do not literally exist, but they sure are an apt metaphor for what is demonstrably happening to our civilization. The fact that many people accept the metaphor, either as truth or as interesting entertainment, tells us that we collectively know something terrible is in the works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
44. How the hell do we know they're not real?
Most people here seem to want to debunk alien life alltogether as some tin foil hatter obsession. I say that it's pretty arrogant to think we're the only form of intelligent life in the entire f'ing UNIVERSE.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. UFO's on agenda at WEF in Davos (Cheney also present)
From Bloomberg

I got a lot of grief for posting this in GD awhile back. There is a thread on it in the MR (I had it moved).

Games within games?

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=specialreport2...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
monchie Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. This topic made me chuckle...
...but I still wonder if "They Live" -- <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AOX0... > -- is actually a documentary.

Plot in a nutshell (hmmm, bad choice of words???? :-)): There are aliens among us...and they are Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. Orrin Hatch -- BFEE megaturd -- Scared of UFOs
Senator Hatch on ET

"The Federal government does not have any information about extraterrestrial life to conceal, and there are no secret projects for me to investigate." (July 7, 2004)

Greater Things News Service

WASHINGTON, DC

In February 2004, Senator Hatch's DC office received two visitors with an unusual request.

Sterling Allan, a constituent from Utah, and his associate, Harry Dschaak, from Idaho, a few weeks earlier had a covertly-arranged, in-person visit with Area 51 microbiologist, Dr. Dan Burisch.

Burisch had told Allan and Dschaak that he wished to have a congressional hearing in which he might testify about some of the black op projects in which he had been involved, including the creation of designer viruses in which he had inserted an identifying signature sequence to prove the laboratory origin of the virus. Burisch also has laboratory ties to the Gulf War Syndrome which has turned out to be a friendly-fire weapon of mass destruction.

The testimony would include Burisch disclosing his experience for nearly a year of working on a daily basis with an extraterrestrial at Area 51, taking tissue samples, and communicating telepathically with the being.

CONTINUED (Thanks BuzzFlash!)...

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/daily/2004/07/11/6600... /


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Aug 31st 2016, 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC