The South is many things.

[Gringo]

There are a few things I learned from my Southern thread, the first and foremost being: think very carefully about the way you structure your thread. I was hoping for a little rise, not a major brouhaha.

I also learned:

There is plenty of racism all over America, not just in the south.

Southerners believe that the majority of their fellow southerners are not ignorant racists.

Quips about mullets are classist and mean.

Blanket generalizations about a region can stir up a real s@#t storm.

That being said, I apologize for the last time for my southern thread.

I'm sure that several people will feel the need to answer this thread with more "Gringo is an a-hole" posts. Fine. Knock yourself out.


Back to my trip. Contrary to popular belief, we had a great time in Beautiful NC, especially Asheville and the Blue Ridge Mtns. I didn't care much for what I saw of Georgia (admittedly not all that much, though we spent two whole days in a dreary Atlanta suburb called Buford, waiting for our car to be fixed)

Overall, it was a good trip, and I met mostly nice people. I'm sure that people visiting S. Florida would see things they don't like here. I know there are a few areas I don't like.

Anyway, the racist dolls and confederate flags I saw (especially in rural SE Georgia) were real, even though I've been accused of lying about them. I realize that it's wrong to blame the whole region for that. But the number of these icons was pretty striking and remains in my mind, (as do the beautiful Biltmore Estate and the thoughtfulness of the hotel concierge when we were stuck in Buford, but those things don't make for interesting discussion.)

SO- what IS the most constructive way to bring up such anectdotal experiences without starting a flame war? Is there any way?

[searchingforlight]

1. I believe the confederate flag is legitimate discussion.

I just feel it needs to be limited to the flag as a symbol and not an all encompassing condemnation of the whole area.

There have been and still are many strong and brave southerners who have fought the ideas that that flag represents. It is a very hard thing to do when you are in a small community and some of the opposition are your relatives.

As far as the dolls go, I would have to know more about them. Black folk art is very collectable now by both blacks and whites. This may not be a sinister as it seems.

[TNDemo]

2. Thank you for saying this.

The problem with most of the southern threads is that it is not usually an opening for an honest discourse - it is a chance to unleash verbal aggression toward a target that the poster feels superior to. That is why we are thin skinned - so many people from other parts of the country have never really been here or known what life is like but have watched enough TV to think they know all about it and proceed to blast us for their perception. Granted you had come through on a trip but did not spend enough time to have a full picture of the region. My suggestion on starting a thread with these experiences is to state what you saw and then ask the southerners if that is the norm or an anomaly and how we feel about it. My own experience is that when you get in rural areas you will see more of the confederate flag stuff. When I am in California or Massachusetts I also see the confederate flag and other redneck stuff once I get in the rural areas. And I also know that not all rural folks are rednecks. There are quite a few environmentally and socially aware folks who choose the rural lifestyle. I just don't see it in the city as much as along the unbeaten path. It's just so wearing to constantly have to justify my existence to non-southerners before I can speak - yes, I'm literate, yes, I went to college, yes, I wear shoes, no, I don't live on a farm, no, I don't support George Bush, no, I don't own a gun - now can we talk?

[inthecorneroverhere]

4. I saw a Rebel flag.....

in the oddest place this spring. It was in Washington state!!!!

That was totally weird. Heck, Washington State wasn't even a State in 1865.

[bandy]

17. you are so right

and we don't have outhouses either. But as far as the Confederate Flag is concerned - it never was a symbol a racisiam to me (and I am older then dirt). I never thought of it as anything other the being Southern i.e. VA, GA, NC, SC, etc. It meant mountains, meadows, trees, home cooking, family and friends. If you go to Savannah or Charleston, dolls of color are being sold by people of color (and very nice people I might add). But Ashville and all those mountain places are to be enjoyed and I love the south for that and the people that live here (been transplanted in freaking Fla. for too long). Wish to retire there close to Asheville someday. Maggie Valley is wonderful for a view of what the mountains are all about.

[inthecorneroverhere]

3. thanks.....

Thank you for your contributions to our road funds through your gasoline purchases. Thank you for the sales taxes on whatever you purchased here. If you chose to spend the night at any lodging establishment, thank you for your contribution to tourism promotion.

(That's how Northerners view it when a Southern family packs the suitcases and the kids in the car and takes a road trip to a place where the days are longer in the summer).

By the way, one thing I do like about the North is the wonderful long days in the summer, as well as some major-league scrumptious awesome pizza and wonderful deli food!!!! It's a shame that stuff is pretty much only in NY and PA, though. New England pizza is as sorry as Georgia pizza.

[NewJerseyDem]

9. NJ has good pizza also

Don't forget about New Jersey!!!!! Just because we are small in size doesn't mean that we should be forgotten. New Jersey's pizza is just like New York's. I actually prefer Pizza Hut to any of the local places around here.

[inthecorneroverhere]

11. the hut?

Nooooooooooo....you haven't checked out enough local spots! Gotta check out some of the thin-crust cooked by the locals!!!!

NJ pizza rocks!!!! :loveya:

[cprise]

5. The South is all my favorite things!

Raindrops on roses,
And whiskers on kittens,
Bright copper kettles,
And warm woolen mittens,
Brown paper packages,
Tied up with strings,
These are a few of my favorite things . . .

Cream colored ponies,
An' crisp apple strudels,
Doorbells an' sleigh bells,
An' schnitzel with noodles,
Wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings,
These are a few of my favorite things . . .

Girls in white dresses,
With blue satin sashes,
Snow flakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes,
Silver white winters,
That melt into springs,
These are a few of my favorite things . . .

Err.... maybe not.

[Pepperbelly]

6. I am a Southernor who has lived ...

California, Hawaii, Illinois, and the DC area. The pot was better in Hawaii, the concerts better in California, the weather was too cold for my taste in Illinois, and DC was too self absorbed for my way of looking at things. Otherwise, the asshole quotient is pretty much the same all over. In the South, I submit that the symbols demonstrating certain kinds of assholes are more prominent in some areas although not all while in the other places, the symbolism for the assholes is a little different.

If I were you, I would let this subject go because truly, to an enlightened mind, there are assholes everywhere.

[alcuno]

7. Some feel the need to vociferously defend regions of the country.

As someone who has lived in a number of parts of the country, I don't feel the same need. I read your original post and agreed with alot of it. Often it's those on the outside who have the clearest picture of what is going on; they don't have the same investment as those on the inside.

Tell your story with no commentary and let the chips fall where they may.

[inthecorneroverhere]

10. well, now I know....

Well, I know where your sympathies lie.

Thanks for siding with that New England 'liberal' supervisor of mine who thought Southerners were dirt and who violated 1930s-era FDR wage-and hours laws.

Third party post-2004 is looking better-and-better.

Dems will soon be a New England regional party.

[searchingforlight]

13. I am a New Englander and I love the South.

Do not take this too much to heart.

The South is rising again, new blood, old traditions, new lessons, old lessons.

Atlanta is a perfect example of how Blacks can rise and name something their own.

The South is rich in culture that has spread throughout our country and enriched us all.

Please hand in there. Many of us want your point of view.

[KoKo]

8. Okay, Gringo, Get Where You're Comin' From! This Should Have Been Your 1st

Post! Lot's of us would have sympathized and given our own anecdotes. But, your original post was so "confrontational that it struck many of us as "downright mean and nasty."

On this current post......you could find some folks, like me, who would engage you in what you observed.......but the Original Post was TOO MEAN!

Obviously, you have learned........so it's great you are on DU to learn and "temper" your posts. I still haven't learned......and have been here a long time.......but I do much better after being "trashed" by fellow DU'ers for my posts..........

Your NEW post is what should have been posted. So, you are now in my "Redeemed, Recovering DU'ers Category."

Hang in there!

:-)'s
koko

[DEMActivist]

12. Let me relay just ONE experience...

As someone who lived half her life in the Chicago burbs, I can tell you that when I was held at gunpoint for HOURS not one neighbor (in paper thin walls of an apartment complex) even called the police when the incident erupted in the wee hours of the morning.

In Georgia, on the other hand a simple car breakdown results in many, many random acts of kindness and help.

The south is a gentler place - a place where neighbors help neighbors; a place where I KNOW and RESPECT my neighbors. It's a place where common courtesy and friendliness are expected.

As a parent who raised children in both environments, I can honestly say I would never consider raising my children in the north again. No amount of money could encourage me to subject my children to the rat race of a northern society.

I'm proud to be a "damned Yankee" - a northerner who came south for a visit and never went back.

[inthecorneroverhere]

15. Thank you!

Welcome!!!!! :loveya: :loveya:

[Pepperbelly]

16. bingo!

I am from Arkansas and that is exactly how folk here react to problems. You do not want for help in emergencies although once my car stalled on a very busy avenue during the X-mas season and I got honked at and thrown many many fingers until a cop came, parked behind me and turned on his lights until the tow truck got there.

But people will try to help you under ordinary (and sometimes extraordinary) circumstances.

And Arkansas is very winnable in 04. Many here HATE Bush and his whole gang.

[Classical_Liberal]

18. You see that in most rural areas of the country including the North

and you see muggings in most urban areas of the country including the South.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. I can't answer your last question but

support you in living this down. I am clear you didn't mean to offend and it got out of hand.

[VelmaD]

19. It takes a big person...

to admit they were wrong and apologize. And it was a lovely, well thought-out apology at that. I'm gonna consider this all water under the bridge if you will.

In return, I have a feeling I may have said some things that were not in the spirit of the good manners my momma taught me on various threads on this topic this morning and I apologize for that.

BTW, the good things you experienced might not make for an "interesting discussion" but they would have made for a more balanced one. And I for one think we could have a lot of fun talking about the weird dichotomies of the South and how people here can be so nice and so mean at the same time.

Darth Velma

[chaska]

20. I haven't read any of the 'Southern' threads, including this one.

and I'm from SC. I can pretty much guess what was said. I don't care. I've slammed my own state plenty. But I've travelled enough to know that number one, a whole lot of negative things comes from ignorance and/or stupidity, and two, that the majority of folks ain't real bright. And that goes for near 'bout everywhere I've ever been.

[bandy]

21. I can only hope that...

this is the last of the posts condemning the south. I, for one, am a gentile lady and feel, well you know. Lets all stick together - we should be of one - and rid this country of the cancer that is invading us. I would love to go north of the Mason/Dixon and visit Cape Code, Altantic City, etc. And, hopefully, some of you would like to come to Fla. and see a fastastic experience in Key West! The car trip down is an awsome experience because you see the tropics at its best. But hurry - George and Jeb are hard at work to destory it all.