Are there any African Americans Here??

[Slickriddles]

On another thread about the DOJ going into cities to control gang-related violence, it occurred to me that no posters realize that gangs are Black Youth. African Americans vote Democratic in overwhelming numbers and yet I have a feeling that very few make it to this site. Am I wrong? Does this bother anybody else?

Here's the other thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1849084

[JayS]

1. I am sure that many here realize that many gangs contain...

...black youth, or hispanic youth, or asian youth....

In my area either 68% or 86% (I forget) of our prison population are minorities. A high percentage of them are in jail for petty drug offenses but hopefully this number will drop as our petty drug cases are supposed to start going to a medical court and not a criminal one. The way the War On Drugs is being "fought" is starting to get a little interest now too.

That being said, the violent people that this law addresses do deserve to be in jail for an extremely long time. I do not care what race, religion, sex, or creed they are. Get them out of the way and maybe there will be a little more hope in dealing with the problems that gave rise to these violent people to begin with.

[Egnever]

2. Woa

no offense but.

no posters realize that gangs are Black Youth

that strikes me as an extremely prejudice thing to say.

Gangs come in all flavors.

[Slickriddles]

4. I didn't express this very well.

I was reading another thread about the DOJ sending agents into 15 cities to arrest people for "gang-related" gun violence. What I'm asking about is this: isn't "gang-related" mainly a code word for inner city youth (of whatever group) when it's used by law enforcement? It seems to me that that the NRA is all for 2nd ammendment rights as long as we are talking about anybody but those in the inner city. SELECTIVE GUN CONTROL If guns are outlawed - only the LAW will be allowed to have guns.
And anyway what about my original question?

[JayS]

The NRA fought for the Second Amendment rights of...

...minorities living in public housing, primarily around 1995 if I remember correctly. The main case was around a housing project whose name escapes me at the moment...but I'll remember it in the morning.

[Slickriddles]

21. Thanks!

[anarchy1999]

3. I'm shocked you even had the nerve to put up such a ridiculous question!

n/t

[Slickriddles]

5. Yeah, but what is the answer? Does anybody know?

[thebigidea]

8. actually, we're all 6 foot Swedes with clear blue eyes.

Didn't you get the memo?

[anarchy1999]

10. What I tried to convey to you was, how could you ever ask the question?

Of course there are and what does it matter? You were way out of line, IMHO. I could reel off names right now but I won't, I take offense at your question and to top it off I'm not.

[Slickriddles]

18. Why would you take offense to a question?

Look, I'm an American, like it or not race is a factor in American life. I grew up in Brooklyn and I was just feeling from the posts I've been reading and looking at stuff here that this site doesn't have a lot of input from African Americans. I'm not asking anybody to declare their ethnicity, but I was feeling uncomfortable about an absence of sensibility to certain groups. I'm sorry if I offended You.

[Cheswick2.0]

22. There are many African Americans here

whatever many mean.

[Slickriddles]

24. Thanks!

[anarchy1999]

27. Thanks for saying sorry. I took offense because DU is very diverse.

I have never in the three years I have been here seen anyone ask such a question. After lots of interaction here you know there are many different people here and I really don't remember anyone ever coming out with such a question. Sorry, I just really took huge offense on behalf of everyone. Emotions are raw right now. For everyone. For the issues you say you care about, I don't think it was appropriate for you to ask the question you did and especially for being so new to this board. I understand, but I believe you could have sought your answers without saying what you did and received many very informed responses.

You might want to think about rephrasing you question in another thread, if you are really serious.

[Slickriddles]

29. Have you ever asked yourself that question? n/t

[anarchy1999]

31. No, because I know without asking. I've been here long enough.

Damn, what do you want? What is with you. Why is it such a concern. Just trust everyone here that has posted in response to you, this is a VERY DIVERSE BOARD! I also know because of all the actions I take part in.

[Donkeyboy75]

46. One wouldn't necessarily know this if they looked at the gallery.

I don't think it's an offensive question.

[Willie T Muskette]

30. Are there any African Americans Here??

I am,and I am not offended.
stand up and be counted:grouphug:

[anarchy1999]

32. Oh Please, you have just got to be kidding me!

NO WAY! and you make this be your first legitimate post? I'm amazed and astounded.

[Willie T Muskette]

58. You must be a troll hunter

I haven't been here long and trying to get a feel for the place.
I see African American of course I'm gonna read it and maybe respond.
I was hoping others would respond in a pleasant manner.
A big "how you doin'" kind a thread.Break the ice.
But it didn't turn out that way did it?
I wonder why?

[Slickriddles]

37. Willie

Welcome to DU:hi:

[freeforall]

41. WTF? This is like Bush's stupid question

about black people being in Brazil.

[OutOfIraqNow]

64. From one newbie to another....

Welcome to DU!!! :toast:

[Slickriddles]

73. Welcome to DU!! Out of Iraq Now

:7

[thebigidea]

6. Blegh. What an atrocious paragraph

[JI7]

7. uh, there are gangs of all races, this sounds very racist to me

[Slickriddles]

13. Not Racist

But it occurs to me that the white gangs that have guns are the KKK and their ilk. And you don't often see the DOJ going after them.
I grew up in the '60s and the Black Panthers and other groups raised the issue of guns in the hands of minorities (god I hate that term)and given the history of slavery and Reconstruction and the Jim Crow south I think it is a possibility that a Republican administration as far to the right as this one, would sleep more soundly if inner-city youth were disarmed.

[JI7]

14. have you heard of the mafia ?russian, italian etc ?those are gangs also

[JayS]

16. The "Ruby Ridge" type raids were to get the white guys. I guess...

...you could include Waco also. There are many that feel that gun control started as a racial issue...and I am not sure that I would entirely disagree with them.

The measures to get the gun toting violent people off the streets is just what the public has been calling for all these years. The call has been answered, but I have a feeling politicians will screw this up the same way they screwed up the Three Strikes laws.

[Slickriddles]

23. Thanks!

[sazdem]

40. You are way off base

With Ruby Ridge and Waco. Have you read any books relating to those two incidents? I have. They have nothing to do with gang activity.

[JayS]

49. The question was about the arrest of white people, not...

...gang activity...unless I read that wrong, as I am known to do. :)

[Merlin]

9. I think we're all pretty much color blind here.

But MLK is still my greatest hero.

[Slickriddles]

12. I know very few African Americans who can afford to be Color-Blind

Merlin you may have answered my original question. Thanks, I won't ever bring up the question of race again.

[Merlin]

33. You're right. Not when there are so many Stupid White Guys around.

But I truly meant it when I said we are all pretty much color blind. I think that most enlightened people--and that includes nearly all who frequent this board--are well aware of the fact that racism is a sick remnant of ancient tribal instincts that have no place in our public policies or private attitudes.

The only way in which I am personally not color blind is in strongly advocating affirmative action. For centuries western civilization crushed the hopes of normal lives for an entire race. It will take many more generations to restore their proper role and power in our society. Meantime, we have much to remedy; we owe it to our ancestors to do all we can remedy their legacy of shame. Stupid White Guys be damned!

[anarchy1999]

34. Thank you so much Merlin. You said it all best and most diplomatically

might I add. Thank you.

[Merlin]

42. I appreciate that, anarchy. n/t

.

[JI7]

11. and there are many blacks, and other minorities on here

[Slickriddles]

15. Well if you say so, I guess I'll go along with that.

I feel much better now. I was worried that the Democratic Underground was mostly white middle class people, but I guess I don't have to worry eh?

[anarchy1999]

17. Rude remark, again! What is with you dear. Just trying to start a flame?

So, if you think most of us here are "mostly white middle class people", just how is it you would you define yourself? Care to share?

On edit: Just curious, how did you ever find DU?

[Slickriddles]

19. I'm really not trying to be rude

And I am not trying to start a flame. I found DU through a link from John Kerry for President. I voted for McGovern in 1972 so maybe I've been a democrat longer than you.
I'm "white" I suppose, but really Irish, German, Scotish, Dutch? or something like that. My parents were white collar workers, who never owned a home and I am currently an adjunct lecturer at a Community college in Central NY. So, I'd guess that makes me lower-middle class until I write the dissertation that will give me a PhD. But my past experience is heavy on plain old working class.

In a perfect world I would hope that we wouldn't ever have to bring up a question like this. You see I share a dream with a great American who said "One day on the red clay hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave-owners will sit down together...." But this is NOT a perfect world (yet.) If we ignore the question of race we are really ignoring those whose race is an impediment to equality and sucess. An African-American male born this year has a 1 in 3 chance of doing time in jail.

[anarchy1999]

26. Thanks for sharing. Who'd you vote for after McGovern in '72.

I'd also venture to say based upon what you say that you are solidly "middle class", just maybe not "Plain old working class". Once again your choice of words is boggling my little brain. And you are working on a PhD. Hmmmm. None of anything you are sharing is making any sense to me personally except to send out red flags in every direction.

[Slickriddles]

28. Red Flags in every direction?

Well after Watergate and the whole Nixon/Ford thing I was pretty soured on electoral politics. Didn't vote again until 1982.
If it's all the same to you I don't feel like I need to qualify my working class self-identity but I've worked a lot of industrial jobs and other crappy jobs. I've been in Unions and support them 'nuff said?
I find it fascinating how your entire tone turned around when I whipped out my credentials. You might want to look at that. I wouldn't expect an Anarchist to be so impressed with a bourgeois education.


"Once again your choice of words is boggling my little brain."

Well, they don't call me Slick Riddles fer Nuthin'

PS. You're not red-baiting me with that "red flags" remark are you??

[anarchy1999]

44. Dearest Slick, Your Creds mean noth. Okay. My entire tone did not

change. I've not liked a thing you have said yet and you seem to hurt yourself and your position more with each post you make. "Nuthin" is good, Slick. Good luck.

As for Red-Baiting? Red Flags is distress for we have a freeper on board. We have lots of union and even old "wobbly" friends and stand by them all the time. When was the last time you were on the street in a protest?

We also have never claimed to be "anarchists". Our handle is anarchy1999, period.

[Slickriddles]

45. Sorry!

It seemed like something changed. I'm not a freeper and it will be a long time before I start another thread. I'm new here. This was my first post. I teach history at a Community college and when I do US history it is important to bring out the different experiences of African Americans. My students are mostly white and I think non-white culture and reality is mostly invisible to many of them. I was really just trying to get a feel for who is at DU. I hope you'll believe me that I'm not trying to cause any trouble.
I also hope you don't think I was trying to insult you by bringing up anarchism. I wasn't.
And sad to say, the last street demonstration I was in was an anti-apartheid march in NYC about 1984? There were some Campus demos around the first Gulf War, but the campus isn't the street.
Hey, you know what this reminds me of? That scene in Matewan, where the organizer has to know which eye Big Bill Haywood is blind in before they'll trust him.
And one last point; I grew up in Brooklyn and sarcasm is a way of life there. It comes out of me real easy but I don't mean to be snotty.
:)

[anarchy1999]

50. Forgiven, and please don't hesitate to post. You'll find a very friendly,

loving and supportive group of friends from around the world here if you give it a chance. And you will have the opportunity to learn alot.

[Slickriddles]

74. Forgive This!!!

"loving and supportive group of friends"?

Buncha assholes jump all over me screaming racist, freeper alert, red flags in every direction?? We're all color blind !! What was that?

I was hoping to start discussing registering voters in the inner cities of this nation but some people here don't seem to want that message to get out. And interestingly, some of them are the same one's who insist vehemently that Bush is worse than Hitler, on dWolper's thread.

Lets see what they are saying:
Don't talk about African Americans.
You must talk about Adolph Hitler being better(sic)
than George Bush.
You think I don't see through this?? I got a lot to learn but it ain't gonna come from you.

"Fuck You" - Dick Cheney to Sen. Leahy

[anarchy1999]

51. While you teach history do you ever use Howard Zinn's masterpiece?

A Peoples History of the United States? If not, you might want to think about it.

[peacebuzzard]

35. Slick, it seems like the only one asking a question is you.

Hopefully in a perfect world one day, that optional race affinity question on employment apps will forever be eliminated.
P.S. Welcome to DU.

[prolesunited]

43. No, actually

we're all card-carrrying members of the ACLU and latte-sipping limousine liberals. :eyes:

BTW, most of the gang members where I live are Hispanic. However, I am not going fight for the right of gang members to carry guns — no matter what color they are.

[Kinkistyle]

20. I thought we were all dogs!

I thought we were all highly intelligent dogs tapping on their owners computers while they were away on work... wait. am I the only one?

[Slickriddles]

25. Thanks!

I recognize the importance of humor Janpanduh.

[IronLionZion]

36. Coalition of the pasty white liberals?

What do you think this is?

I'm not African-American and I doubt you're racist but don't say that gangs are black youth OK? My troubles with gangs have overwhelmingly been WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT SKINHEADS and East Indian (crazy isn't it?) New Jersey has plenty of both.

It's a common misconception that all or even most gangs are black.
Damn that rap music!

[Tatiana]

38. There are plenty of African-Americans on this site.

I am one of them.

Also, there are plenty of non-AA "gangs." Ever heard of John Gotti and the Mafia? There was also a movie called the "Gangs of New York." Those people looked pretty white to me.

Let's not fall for stereotypes.

[Slickriddles]

47. Thanks, now I know.

I did fall into stereotypes but if you go to the original thread linked in the original message maybe you'll see what I was trying to get at. The Justice Dept. is sending these task forces into 15 cities to arrest people for gang and drug related gun violations and I was thinking, ok Gotti and the KKK and the Skinheads are probably not being targeted so what does this mean? More incarceration for people of color?
I've seen The Gangs of New York and I've also read a book called How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev. It shows how racism was used to divide lower class people and covers the same period as the Gangs of New York.
I think there's a difference between being racist and recognizing race as a component of history and politics. Am I wrong?


PS What do you make of #9, 12, 33, 34 above?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

76. YES, Slickriddles: they are targetting people of color

you are absolutely correct about that.

[Slickriddles]

83. I heard that. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

54. You forgot the Bush Cabal

The Blue Bloods from Saxony

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[T Town Jake]

52. Read the entire thread, Skittles, please...

...before you post nonsense. BTW, this is how your smarmy post made me "feel":

:puke:

[Skittles]

56. his initial post was RACIST

I don't give a flying f*** about his back-peddling.

[Blue-Jay]

53. OK, back up everybody. I don't think that the

poster was being overtly bigoted. The fact is that when Johnny Law-types talk about "gang-related violence", they're really saying that they are going to crack down on inner city blacks and hispanics. There are white gangs, asian gangs, and others that don't get the same kind of attention by the media or by law enforcement agencies because they don't fit the stereotypical requirements that most uninformed people accociate with "gangs".

Whenever there's a bust on the neo-nazi KKK groups, it's never reported as "gang-related", but that's exactly what they are. A gang.

As far as wondering if there are African Americans that post at DU, the answer is CERTAINLY. I know of many, and I'd assume that there are many more who, for whatever reason, don't make a point of mentioning it. We are mostly discussing political issues here and I'd be very surprised to see someone post "I'm Black, and I think that the CIA was responsible for Berg's execution" (or whatever) You see, unless race issues are being discussed in a particular thread, most people stay on topic in order to add their thoughts on the issue at hand.

It's funny... I never considered it to be an issue until you stated that you were "bothered" by it. There are plenty of other things to be bothered by regarding the current political climate, which is why DU is here.

grammar edit

[anarchy1999]

55. Thank you for saying it all so well.

n/t

"There are plenty of other things to be bothered by regarding the current political climate, which is why DU is here."

[Willie T Muskette]

57. "Thank you for saying it all so well." not

"There are plenty of other things to be bothered by regarding the current political climate, which is why DU is here."

Then why work yourself into a tizzy and call the original poster a suspect conservative and a possible closet racist when they were just asking how black folks felt about something?
If you truly felt that way you wouldn't have called them on it.
Maybe you were afraid my "feelins" would be hurt?

[Slickriddles]

59. Time for Lessons

When I went to sleep last night I was worried about this, my first thread on DU. This morning I see that someone has alerted the moderators (it wasn't me, I didn't really know how that works yet) and a couple of posts have been removed. Whoever did that has my gratitude.

I have learned a lot since I started this thread. So much, in fact, that it is difficult to know where to start. There is a big political lesson to be learned on the strategy for winning the "White" House for the Democrats. African Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democrats (that wasn't always the case but that's for another thread) so wouldn't it be in the interest of Democrats to register as many African Americans as possible? And particularly young people in the inner cities?

Now, what is the HISTORY of voting for African Americans? One would hope that Democrats in 2004 wouldn't have to have this explained to them, so I will try to give the short version.
The 14th Ammenment to the United States Constitution, adopted in 1868, gave African American (males) the vote for the first time in its history. (Some free blacks had voted eary on in some states.)
This was in the wake of the Civil War and the franchise (the right to vote) had to be backed up by Federal Troops, many of whom were Black (I hope I can use this term as shorthand, at the time they would have been known as Colored Regiments) See "Like Men of War" Noah Andre Trudeau.
From 1865 to 1877 is the period in American History known as Reconstruction. Black Males voted, held office at the state and Federal level and had their rights as citizens protected by Federal Law and Federal troops.
In 1877 a close presidential election leads to the Tilden-Hayes compromise and Federal troops are removed from the formerly rebellious States. In the abscense of Federal Troops "terrorists" like the Ku Klux Klan and their Democratic Party allies are permitted to disenfranchise African Americans and establish a system of apartheid that we call "Jim Crow" or segregation. (to be continued)

[Slickriddles]

60. Lessons part 2

In 1896 in Plessy v. Fergusson the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that "separate but equal" or segregation was Constitutional. The Honorable Justices must not have realized that the 14th and 15th Ammendments were part of the US Constitution!!

The situation from 1877 to at least World War II is that African Americans are LEGALLY discriminated against in many parts of the US and Illegally discriminated against just about everywhere else; schools, unions, the armed forces, professional sports, etc. (Well it's only illegeal if I ignore Plessy v. Fergussen, I guess white supremicists had no problem with "activist judges" back then)

The post-World War II civil rights movement is, I hope, more familiar to many of you. I would just like to point out that re-enfranchising African Americans in some States was a difficult, dangerous and, in many cases deadly activity carried out by courageous Americans of all stripes.

Jump to 2000. Which Party is the white Christian Patriot party?
Which Party is the party of Reconstruction?
Which Southern State was the focus?
Which group of voters were systematically disenfranchised in that State?
Who decided that George W. Bush, a white Christian patriot would be President?

I close with this from "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W.Loewen. It is a quote from Ken Burns that helps open Chapter 5 'Gone with the Wind: The Invisibility of Racism in American History Textbooks.'

"The black-white rift stands at the very center of American history. It is the great challenge to which all our deepest aspirations to freedom must rise. If we forget that - if we forget the great stain of slavery that stands at the heart of our country, our history, our experiment - we forget who we are, and we make the rift deeper and wider." -Ken Burns

To those who attacked me on this thread I paraphrase Patrick Henry, If this be racism, make the most of it. Thank You all, Slick Riddles

[Blue-Jay]

61. I'm sorry you disagree, Willie.

But don't put words in my mouth that are not my own. I didn't call anybody anything of the sort like you imply, and I suspect that you're just trolling for a reaction. The original poster didn't take it that way.

To be honest, I don't give a shit about your "feelins", and I don't believe I've ever gotten worked into a tizzy. I'm not the tizzying kind of guy.

[Willie T Muskette]

62. I wasn't replying to your post blue-jay

I was replying to anarchy 1999
this order thing on this newsgroup is so confusing.
I don't give a shit about your "feelins",
sorry, no need to be so rude and cuss at me.
it seems that you are in a tizzy cussing and all.

[Slickriddles]

63. Hang in there Mr. Muskette there's something strange going on here

edited for spelling

[Insider]

65. hi slick

don't sweat the question or how you phrased it or anything else. welcome :hi:

and i saw that thread. i did a little research on whether those cities had democratic mayors. some do and some don't. but i have no doubt they chose them for a reason. will continue to research that one.

this admin does not act in any haphazard way. they did it for their own benefit, i'm very sure. no need to sit around and wait like we did in florida, crying AFTER they disenfranchise black voters again under some law enforcement cover.

maybe that's it... throw around the federal charges and cancel every voter registration drive between now and november.

[Slickriddles]

72. No Sweat

I'm not sweating anything except I wished I hadn't given Anarchy1999 as much info as I did up above. I realize now that not everybody comes here to see what others have to say, to consider it, and engage in civil debate or discussion. In fact I'm glad I drew so much fire because now I know who some of the bad apples are. It seems to me that alot of them played their hand here and that's valuable info. One has to know who ones friends are eh?

[jeffrey_X]

66. So there are no latino/hispanic gangs?

dumb statement

[mellowinman]

67. I'm White...

but that post that started this thread made me wish I wasn't.

Why in FUCK do you have a "feeling" that very few African Americans make it to this site?

Why are you saying that gangs are "Black Youth?"

Why did you even start a thread like this?

I find this thread racist, offensive, and wrong, and apology simply doesn't correct it.

Get an education!

Why would this "bother" anybody?

WTF?

[Solon]

68. I'm not white, I'm a damned Mick....

and I find it offensive that he only included "Black Youth" gangs, LONG LIVE THE DEAD RABBITS!!!! :evilgrin:

[Karenina]

69. I'm NOT.

Dreidel, dreidel, dreidel, I made it out of clay... Now HOW do I know that one? :silly:

I'd daresay many AA folks who be in der Reihe "throw dey hands in de AIR and wave 'em like they just don't care" dealing with the "dominant culcha" here. Hier wie überall... :freak:

OP does NOT offend me at all as s/he smelled the "CODE WORDS" IMMEDIATELY and simply tried to call it out. Is ANYONE paying critical attention?

:SIGH:

[Slickriddles]

71. Vielen Dank Meine Gnadige Frau! n/t

well I don't really know if you are a Frau or not. :hi:

[Karenina]

75. Na ja...

ich bin eine alte Hexe.

[Cocoa]

70. victims of gang violence are also disproportionately black

I have no problem in itself with the feds helping out in cities.

The problem I have is with the presence of Ashcroft. I will never trust the DOJ, or see any action of theirs as a good thing, until he's out of there.

[noiretextatique]

77. african-american here

as i commented to someone recently, it's like i grew up in a different country than many people here. and wise friend told me: you did.
anything related to race is difficult to discuss here, like elsewhere in america. i'm generalizing here, but white people tend to focus on personal definitions (as in "eveybody CAN BE racist), while other folks focus on a more institutional view (as in how can a country seeped in centuries racist history/tradition/culture suddenly and magically become color blind in less than 50 years?).
though the wording of your original post was awkward, for some reason, i got the gist of what you were asking.

[Karenina]

79. The OP latched on the the "code words"

like white on rice. For that level of visceral consciousness I give a :thumbsup:

So SAD that most TOTALLY MISSED IT.

[Slickriddles]

82. Some totally got it

But their houses must be in need of reconstruction or something.
It was just a little cloudy in here if ya get my drift.

[Catt03]

80. I got the gist too

race is difficult to discuss here. Saying that, many threads on this board are not about solutions or ideas for them, but defending
Democratic principles, and arguing ......by political junkies.

adding to this, there are some wonderful, intelligent, researched, informative, educational, groundbreaking threads that appear daily.

It's fun.

[DrWeird]

78. Bump

For comparing and contrasting.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

81. What are you talking about and why?

?

[Slickriddles]

84. Read the thread if you will, I think it tells a great story. n/t