Does anyone know anything about the CBC meeting with Nader?

[hiphopnation]

I wish I was real adept with photoshop so I could but the face of Elijah Cummings doing an Atomic Drop on Nader.

http://www.hillnews.com/news/042804/nader.aspx

I love this:

He said he anticipated a “very friendly meeting” because Nader and CBC members will “probably agree on many things.”

If by "very friendly" you mean very harsh verbal de-pantsings. Anyone got any info?

[Tim4319]

1. From what I understand

It became a very heated discussion.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. From earlier today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1841634&mesg_id=1841634

[FlemingsGhost]

3. He essentially told them to "stick it."

Reminding them that, despite the efforts of their DC colleagues, opposing political views are still permitted in the U.S.

[Frances]

5. What does Nader care

that the black unemployment rate went way down under Clinton and has gone back up under Bush?

What does Nader care that black votes were not counted in Florida in 2000?

What does Nader care about the black vote period?

[FlemingsGhost]

7. Ralph cares mostly about himself, I suspect.

But he has every right to run his ill-fated campaign none-the-less.

Any movement that openly challenges the two-party grift we have going now is not a threat, in my opinion. Just a little ahead of its time.

[Frances]

8. Of course Nader has the right to run

and I have the right to say that I think he is doing so in order to gratify his ego, even though he knows he is enabling evil people to take over our country.

[hiphopnation]

9. Right

Mr. Nader and his supporters just loooove to lecture us about what he has the "right" to do. I just love that strawman.

[FlemingsGhost]

13. Just how is that fact a strawman?

Do tell ...

[hiphopnation]

17. Nader's

defense of his run as "his constitutional right" serves to stiffen his oposition on the left because he comes off as lecturing or educating us about his rights as if we don't know what his rights are. He's drawing attention away from the real issue here which is not whether he has the right to run but how his run may serve to help get bush re-elected. It's a strawman.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

[FlemingsGhost]

19. Speaking of strawmen:

"He's drawing attention away from the real issue here which is not whether he has the right to run but how his run * may * serve to help get bush re-elected."

He may not. No?

[hiphopnation]

21. My ass might fall if when I get up from this seat.

It may it may not. No?

Are you willing to risk it just four years after he *probably* spoiled one election?

Hey, after all, he may or he may not have helped to get Shrimpy elected. Can you at least conceed that he helped?

[FlemingsGhost]

24. Absolutely. But can you conceed ...

that Gore was not going to become President, even if the GOP had to use everything in their bag of dirty tricks, including but not limited to:

-- Five conservative Supreme Court judges
(two of whom owe their posiions to a man named Bush)

-- A corporate media onslaught

-- The systematic disenfranchisment of tens of thousands of voters

-- Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris

-- Recruiting GOP staff and supporters to stage a protest

-- Questionable decisions regrading Gore's campaign


Suddenly frumpy Ralph Nader and his 3% look rather small in the big picture, huh?

[hiphopnation]

29. No. I can't.

But I can conceed that your list was a formidable and overwhelming force for Mr. Gor to try and overcome. Mr. Nader was just one more thing to throw on top of the heap of circumstances that Mr. Gore had to contend with.

After all, he did win the popular vote.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. and the endless Naderlies about Gore

You forgot that point.

[sangh0]

22. You obviously don't know what a "straw man" is

A straw man is a rebuttal to an argument that no one has made. When Nadirites argue that "Nader has a right to run", they are rebutting the argument that "Nadir does NOT have the right to run". Unfortunately, no one has argued that "Nadir does NOT have the right to run", so it is a straw man.

As far as whether or not Nadir's run may or may not help get Bush* re-selected, both sides of that argument have been made, so rebutting it can NOT be a straw man.

[noiretextatique]

25. yeah...democrats sure cared about the florida disenfranchisement

i think gore hemmed and hawed about it on tavis smiley, but failed to make it an issue during the recount fiasco.

[sangh0]

34. "Gore" is not "the democrats"

Plenty of democrats were upset about it, but it was Gore who poured cold water on the idea. And according to the DU conventional "wisdom", this occurred sometime AFTER he disavowed the DLC.

[noiretextatique]

38. i know it...i am talking about GORE the candidate

and as such, the leader of the party not making it an issue at the most critical time.

[sangh0]

6. opposing political views ??

What has Nadir opposed when he's not trying to ruin an election?

[Cheswick2.0]

31. yup and opposing Nader is permitted too

Something his supporters would like us to stop doing.

[Gothmog]

4. Nader needs to bow out

Hopefully at aome point, Nader will drop out of this race.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. he wont

Nader is perfect and everything he does is perfect. How could he stop doing something perfect?

[oasis]

10. I'd like to hear what Maxine Waters had to say to his sorry ass.

[hiphopnation]

11. Wish

Cynthia McKinney could have been there!

[FlemingsGhost]

12. Speaking of Elijah Cummings. Please explain this:

Apparently, Ralph Nader is more of a threat than fundie-favorite Washington Times owner, crowned savior of humanity, Rev. Moon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1843592

[hiphopnation]

14. ...

All have I have to say to that is:

In an interview yesterday, Cummings said, "I don't recall saying that. That may have been confused with what I was saying" about Bishop Joseph Showell, a constituent being honored.

It's suspect, yes. In my mind, the verdict is still out.

[hiphopnation]

15. ...

All have I have to say to that is:

In an interview yesterday, Cummings said, "I don't recall saying that. That may have been confused with what I was saying" about Bishop Joseph Showell, a constituent being honored.

It's suspect, yes. In my mind, the verdict is still out.

[FlemingsGhost]

16. And yet, a Nader candidacy is a threat and only helps Bush?

Seems to me, Rev. Moon and his media empire have done far more damage to Democrats than Ralph Nader. Yet, I see many black congressional members line up to honor this self proclaimed "second coming of Christ."

Who's kidding whom?

[Cheswick2.0]

20. based on what?

" Seems to me, Rev. Moon and his media empire have done far more damage to Democrats than Ralph Nader"

got stats?

[noiretextatique]

27. do you...have any statistics, that is?

are you saying nader is MORE damaging to democrats than the RW media? have any stats to back that up?

[Cheswick2.0]

35. look at the polls with and without Nader in the race

In general he takes five points from Kerry for everyone he takes from bush. Those polls have been posted here on DU for days.

[noiretextatique]

40. haven't seen them...is the 5% the deciding factor for bush?

if so...clearly kerry is in more trouble than nader explains.

[kiahzero]

26. First straw men, now red herrings

Big fan of the logical fallacies, are you?

[FlemingsGhost]

28. Nope. I just love fish, I guess.

Mmmmmmmmmm ...

[Cheswick2.0]

18. the only thing I heard is that they ripped him a new one

Good for them. They know what is at stake.

[FlemingsGhost]

23. Please tell me what is at stake, Cheswick?

And while you are at it, how is kissing the ass of one of the biggest Bush supporters working toward achieving that aim?

Rev. Moon has not called for the impeachment of George W. Bush. Ralph Nader has, however ...

[noiretextatique]

30. fascincating, isn't it?

:shrug:

[FlemingsGhost]

39. Sad, really.

But not surprising.

[noiretextatique]

41. nope...not at all surprising

such is life in these united states...

[hiphopnation]

36. You are a fan of logical fallacies

as you cannot prove that the CBC is "kissing the ass of one of the biggest Bush supporters". You base this statement on a quote that has be repudiated by the CBC chariman. Care to explain?

On another note, no one here is defending Rev. Moon but you imply that we are, because we oppose Nader, with statements like this one: "Rev. Moon has not called for the impeachment of George W. Bush. Ralph Nader has, however ..."

Please get some of this straight and get back to us.

[FlemingsGhost]

45. I will not simply ignore the fact that ...

Some of the same folks, (who are working to quash a progressive third party candidacy,) are the same elected officials who have kind words and campaign checks from a notoriously corrupt GOP supporter.

I'm just trying to make sense of the logic, that's all.

[hiphopnation]

46. Again

you're averting attention away from my point. You seem to be quite adept at this! You're correct in not ignoring this. I'm not either.

The point is that you cannot prove that anyone in the CBC has accepted campaign checks from reverend moon and you still haven't addressed the fact that you tie contempt for Nader to support of reverend moon, a logical fallacy indeed. Care to explain yet?

If not, think about it before you get back to me cuz I'm getting dizzy with all your spin. :thumbsup:

[FlemingsGhost]

47. Make of this, what you will:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61932-2004Jun22.html

"Davis said in an interview that he is a lifelong Methodist who does not agree with many of Moon's religious teachings. But he praised Moon's efforts to promote world peace. Davis said that some Moon associates have donated money to his congressional campaigns, but that that has nothing to do with his support for Moon's organization.

The prominent role played by Davis, Fauntroy and Stallings, among
others, reflects Moon's efforts to reach out to the black community.
Jenkins said many African American clergy members "have become
strong allies" of Moon because they sympathize with the "mistreatment and labeling" he has faced."

[hiphopnation]

48. I sure will.

Thanks for the (dis)info and the (unanswered) questions. :thumbsup:

[Cheswick2.0]

37. you don't know what is at stake?

Not surprising since if you did you would not be defending Nader.
Sorry I only tutor people for money.

[FlemingsGhost]

43. Answer the question, professor.

Or do I need to raise my hand?

[hiphopnation]

44. pupil...

see post #36

[Forkboy]

49. Seems like a waste of money

[Kahuna]

42. I think they pretty much told him to go to hell.

:thumbsup: