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Why O why couldn't Bill Clinton be PERFECT?!?!

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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 02:52 AM
Original message
Why O why couldn't Bill Clinton be PERFECT?!?!
....How DARE he be only HUMAN and make a mistake or few?

Perfection isn't attainable to the human condition..nor is it even logical....is there any wonder why the world is so screwed up...to continually compare ourselves to perfection when it's a complete and total impossibility!!

To continue to do this will continue the very mindset that has our party fractured and weak....keeps the entire world in chaos...and the mistakes of history are doomed to keep repeating as a result.

I blame the insatiable desire to be perfect and expect perfection on religion....the deeply rooted brainFUCK that religion instills about being perfect...makes us all condesending and judgemental..the fact that our emotions are our animal instincts...we are instinctually greedy...selfish...and violent by nature...yet we are taught that we should be perfect and Godlike instead...this is why I'm convinced that it's not possible for there ever to be any real civilization and that the paradoxes therein will continue to destroy us all...instead of any Utopia being realized....we're merely animals...afterall.



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orthogonal Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. We never asked Clinton be perfect
I'd have settled for not lying under oath.

Setting the precedent that a sitting President -- or other official, for that matter -- can lie under oath allows that precedent to be used as cover for all sorts of prevarications and crimes -- such as those of the current Administration.

No man should be above the law in a democracy, and certainly not the President, whether it's Bill Clinton claiming that the law doesn't apply to his peccadillos or Jay Bybee claiming that the Commander in Chief is not constrained by laws against torture.

I'm won't indulge in special pleading for "our Big Dawg" because I don't want to give partisans of Nixon, Oliver North, or Don Rumsfeld the excuse to engage in special pleading for their "dogs".
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Was RayGun under oath when he kept sayin'..." I DON'T RECALL?"
Edited on Mon Jun-21-04 03:44 AM by jus_the_facts
....and weren't Ollie and DICK and RUMMY all CONVICTED after LYING UNDER OATH.....but NOW they ALL HOLD POSITIONS IN THE GOV'T TODAY? :eyes:


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orthogonal Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Let me correct some of your misapprehensions about recent history
"Was RayGun under oath when he kept sayin'... 'I DON'T RECALL?'
....and weren't Ollie and DICK and RUMMY all CONVICTED after LYING UNDER OATH.....but NOW they ALL HOLD POSITIONS IN GOV'T? Seems there's a lapse in memory on your part...I suggest you reevaluate some HISTORY before makin' asinine assuptions (sic). :eyes:"


Oliver North was convicted of abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry (and two other counts), but all the convictions were vacated on appeal due to issues surrounding whether North had been immunized from prosecution. Eventually, on the motion of the Independent Counsel, the case against North was dismissed. So ultimately, North was not convicted.

Dick Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment and was preemptively pardoned by President Ford, so he was not convicted.

Donald Rumsfeld, to my knowledge, has not been convicted of lying under oath or any other crime. He was, however, awarded the nation's highest civilian award, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, in 1977.

Oliver North does not currently hold a government job; Nixon, of course, died in 1994; and Rumsfeld of course is the current Secretary of Defense.

So, speaking of "reevaluat some HISTORY", perhaps this post will serve to update you, "jus_the_facts".
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The crime of disproportion.
Presidents lie. They might call it bluffing, and they may do it for national security reasons, but ultimately, they lie. The question is, should they be allowed to lie under oath? Of course not. But if they do, what should the penalties be? That's where we as a society set the benchmark. Lying about an extra-marital affair which surfaced as a result of a conservative attack which was allowed to go on longer than any political attack I have ever witnessed in my lifetime, doesn't merit impeachment. If we allowed our enemies to manipulate us in this manner, then we are lost. Morality has been used as a weapon by the Right in a disproportionate manner. They flog Democrats with it, but rarely apply the same force of justice against those in their own party that do the same thing.

What I find very curious is how the Republicans have been allowed to get away with so much more, just by avoiding the oath trap. Reagan claimed executive privilege, Bush takes it one step further by avoiding being put on the stand and taking any oath at all. And is there a public outcry over his refusal? No. Because there is no political machinery in action to churn the mainstream the way the conservatives churned outrage in the 90s. Yet, if we did get Bush under oath, he would do exactly what Reagan did. He would feign ignorance. And perhaps add something else. He would probably blame his decisions on bad intelligence, even though we all know he had an agenda before he got into office.

Ultimately, I'm not a strict constructionist. Those kinds of games are best reserved for lawyers and oily Supreme Court justices.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. YEAH.....what ^|^ said......
....sorry I didn't RECALL the EXACT history of IRAN CONTRA...but those bastards *dick'n'rummy* LIED their asses OFF long before there was a Bill Clinton in Washington regardless! :eyes:
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Abrams Poindexter and Negroponte are all in Bush admin positions
Edited on Mon Jun-21-04 06:33 AM by jpgray
They have all been guilty of such crimes.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Thank you jpgray....
....appreciate the backup with this! :hi:
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Momof1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. because..... he is just a man.
STAND BY YOUR MAN
GIVE HIM 2 ARMS TO HOLD CLING TOO.
AND SOMETHING WARM TO COME TO
WHEN NIGHTS ARE COLD AND LONELY.

And I post that in all seriousness. I loved that man. Forget that cliche with Hillary.

Damn. I miss him.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Same here
I love him :loveya: I want him back. :cry:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. why couldn't he have cured cancer! I'll never forgive him for that!
Because he didn't please me 100% of the time, he was a bad bad man! </sarcasm>
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why oh why couldn't Bill be Vice president!!??
Kerry could clean up even better.

Is it legal?
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, come on
It's not hard to resist come-ons from pretty girls, or it shouldn't be, when you balance it out with so much to lose. And then to lie about it - which he did not because it was a private matter, but because it revealed his personal weakness and bad judgment and because he thought he could get away with it.

He could have admitted it, but he chose to lie and put the country through this long, expensive, embarrassing exercise. And now, because of his pride and selfishness, George W. Bush occupies the White House.

Sorry, but I expect better - and I'm not going to buy his stupid book and reward him for his foolishness and recklessness.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. STOP DOING THAT
It is NOT Clinton's fault that Gore WON but bush STOLE the election.

It is NOT Clinton's fault that Gore was REAMED in the media. The media LIES and DISTORTIONS helped get bush close enough to STEAL the election.

:puke:
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. No, you stop doing that
If you want to believe it was just the media, fine. They certainly did do a job on Gore. I believe Clinton's behavior caused some people who would otherwise have voted for Gore to vote for Bush. I thought about giving him a chance myself, and I think it's reasonable to assume some people actually voted for him. So go puke at someone else. Or puke at me again for thinking about voting for Bush. I wasn't as committed a Democrat as I am now.

Then again, it's all water under the bridge and I'm sure it was beyond thoroughly debated before I joined DU. So I'll just shut up and quietly not idolize the Big Dog.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton destroyed the great presidential tradition of monogamy
and the librul media will never forgive him for it.

:eyes:
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Seems even some libruls can't either......
.....amazes me too! :nopity:
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Really, Why is Anybody Still Talking About Clinton?
Please, people, the affair is over. Eat some chocolate and move on.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well that's just great
So because he is human, and thus not perfect, he is neither to be blamed nor beyond reproach for any of his imperfections.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. He paid his dues already in regard to his FAMILY.....
....the only people who ever mattered where his DICK was concerned. :eyes:
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Uuuhhh
okay...

There are plenty of things Clinton could have done better, namely approached the health care debate in a wiser fashion. Or how about, not getting a blow job at all in the first place?!?! Like it or not, it bothered a lot of average 'mericuns.

That said, he was the best president I've ever had in my short life and I am eternally grateful for the great many things that he DID accomplish, namely 8 years of general peace and prosperity. And I DO miss him...terribly. And I know that no one is perfect.

I refuse, however, to put him off limits and beyond the scrutiny and debate of the country and the party. That's just not smart, my friend. :thumbsup:
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yeah....by GAWD he should be picked to pieces for infinity.....
.....that's gonna happen regardless of what I think...just pisses me off that what's most talked about is what should have never even been known to the public to begin with and what he's most known for. Peace to you my friend. :hi:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. If only Clinton had come clean
and back when the first questions about Whitewater had come up, he'd have said, "those charges are horseshit, as are pretty much every other "scandal" the GOP is going to try to cook up, but I plan to get me a big old humjob in about five years or so."

That would have solved everything</sarcasm>...
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Perfect, hell, I would have settled for Clinton
Being a Democrat.

Pushing through issues like free trade, welfare reform, and the '96 Telecom Act, among others qualifies Clinton as a moderate Republican in my book, no matter what label he tagged himself with. His few liberal issues were either severly dilluted or dropped altogether.

If Clinton would have been running even into the seventies, he would have run as a moderate Republican. But with the two major parties marching ever rightward, he was able to get away with running as a Democrat and pull it off.
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