Tell me this article is not really true. I want to think it is not true.

[madfloridian]

I am not familiar with the author or the NH paper, but the guy says he talked to the campaign itself. I am careful not to post critical stuff of Kerry, as this is a crucial time in history. This guy sounds like I feel right now, very conflicted with no choices.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=39193

Another View:
Kerry’s campaign has shut out the anti-war movement
By ROBERT KOEHLER
Guest Commentary

SNIP.."THE ELECTION ceased to be just a vaguely troubling reality TV show for me one day two weeks ago, when a Kerry fund-raiser hung up on me. Suddenly, ouch. I was left with a dead receiver and a feeling of disconnect I could no longer ignore.

Is the war really off the table in this year’s Presidential race? Is the nation’s central agony and 50-50 schism a non-issue between the major contenders? Has that venerable verbal team of “participatory” and “democracy” been unyoked, and if so, what are we left with? Spectator democracy?"

SNIP..."The position articulated for me by Kerry media spokesman Bill Burton was Wolfowitz-lite. It wasn’t just that the candidate’s single departure from administration strategy was to put Iraqis under a NATO/U.N. boot heel rather than a strictly American one; it’s that the vision he expounded was unmitigated by the least doubt that bombing is to democracy what April showers are to May flowers...."

SNIP.."Exactly what, I asked Burton, is our mission in Iraq? Astonishingly, he refused to evince the least skepticism that ongoing U.S. presence in Iraq — despite Abu Ghraib, 11,000 civilian dead, a wrecked infrastructure, widespread depleted uranium contamination and a united Shiite-Sunni opposition — is anything but beneficial...."END SNIP

I know that staying has been Dean's position as well, and I am beginning to be very torn by this. I do not see how we can stay now. I have always thought we should fix what we broke, but now I don't think we can. I just feel sad about what we have done. I want someone to be upset and yell and get mad. But only Gore is.


"Since the time of Thomas Paine and John Adams, our founders implored that we were not to be the new Rome. We are not to conquer and suppress other nations to submit to our will. We were to inspire them."
Howard Dean, 2003

Howard Dean, do you still believe this? Are you afraid to speak out because of Kerry? Even Gore thinks we need to stay, but how can we?

[NMDemDist2]

1. don;'t know if this will make you feel better, but at least you'll have

the facts


Increase The Size Of The Military. The American military was designed to fight with coalition partners. Lacking those partners due to a failed policy of unilateralism, our Army is stressed to the breaking-point. John Kerry will temporarily increase the size of the active-duty Army by 40,000 troops so that we have the force structure for the challenges we face.

Reinvigorate American diplomacy to better meet the needs of America’s security. Our military has a right to expect that when they go into conflict on a mission of international security they will have maximum support from troops of other nations affected. Because of the Bush Administration’s disregard for allies and other potential partners, our troops make 82% of the military forces dealing with the insurgency operation in Iraq today, and have suffered 85% of the fatalities. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm; http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/>

more here http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

[NJCher]

2. I can believe it

That's why it's hard for me to get too excited about our candidate. Oh, I will certainly vote for him and even work on his behalf on GOTV but this is a major, major problem for me.


Cher

on edit: this article about the latest anger and violence in Iraq makes one wonder what on earth they are talking about when they say, "If we leave, the place will go up in flames."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39504-2004Jun14.html

The place is in flames. Every day.

We need to get out. Now. Give the money to fix what we broke but get out now.

[neebob]

12. It's a major problem for me, too

and I suspect the reason is having military bases and controlling the oil are just too attractive and they're afraid to send KBR and all the other contractors packing. So it's being rationalized.

[I thought so.]

3. The souce is B.S.

Ala Drudge,Newsmax,etc. Don't believe it.

[mike1963]

4. That's pretty damn scary, I'll call that number 202-712-3000 in the mornin

and see what they say.
:eyes:

[taxidriver]

5. kerry sold out, just like the rest of them.

dont fucking flame me for saying that, anybody. hes been using practically the same rhetoric as Bush, and has given no clear policy as to what he'd do besides "go the the UN..."

[Armstead]

6. I agree with it -- alas

Kerry doesn't really have any position on Iraq other than "I would have done it better."

That's basically his position on everything. Kerry is correct. He would do most things better then Bush. But that's not a very inspiring platform.

The left (including the moderate left) basically doesn't matter to Kerry. He assumes he has the ABB vote.

If Bush weren' so horrible, it would all be a giant yawn.

We basically have a choice between a mediocre status quo candidate versus a truly awful, bumbling and arrogent president.

It's kind of a Hobson's Choice. My emotions are not feeling that Kerry has to win as it is that Bush has to lose.

Kinda sucks.

[mike_c]

7. John Kerry-- the OTHER pro-war candidate....

When will America wake up from this nightmare? The MIC has conveniently arranged a win-win situation for the Pentagon and the "defense" industry. Perpetual war, no matter who wins the election.

[Mikimouse]

8. The Union Leader is a Right Wing Rag...

Those of us that remember the old publisher, Loeb, remember the hatchet job he did on Ed Muskie's wife, which led to Muskie's eventual withdrawal from the race. It is garbage and I wouldn't put any stock in anything they publish.

[grasswire]

9. the union leader ...

...is pure trash. As nutty right as you can get.

[komplex]

10. Well, what are our options...

We are responsible for the Iraqi's, if we leave now our standing in the world will be lower than it already is. The only option we have is to bring Iraq, kicking and screaming into a Western Democracy. It's the only thing we can do and it's going to cost more money and lives than we already seen.

If we pull out right now, we'll save American lives but we would open up the Iraqi's to a hell on earth. Not just Civil War, but what happens if the Kurds try to form their own Nation, Turkey and Syria (at the very least, if not the Russians) would invade to stop it, and from what we know of the Turks and Syrians, the Kurds would be better off at Saddam's Gassings.

Iran and Al-Queada would make plays to control the other two groups, Imagine an Al Queada controlled Sunni region and an Iranian controlled Shi'ite region. Iran then controls something like 35% of the World's oil and they aren't going to use that money to buy Gucci.

Imagine it like this, a very bad poker player puts all of his family's assets into the pot (we're talking brother's, sister's, children's, parent's, grandparent's, aunt's, uncle's, in-laws). Now it's too late to get their money back, what the family needs to do is to get they guy who f*cked up out of there and replace him with somebody who is much better at either playing poker, getting a couple of the other players to drop out or to rebuild the assets.

We are in a bad situation. Radical pie-in-the-sky idealism got us into this mess, it's not going to get us out.

[mike_c]

13. destroying the village to save it, eh...?

Jeez, don't Americans ever learn? Since when did "stop killing innocent people in our names" become "radical pie-in-the-sky idealism?" We cannot "fix" the damage we've done in Iraq. All we can do is stay and kill many more people, and continue to build the new American legacy of imperialism and tyranny until we're exhausted, like the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, or we can leave and at least pay reparations later when the dust settles.

[komplex]

17. Humor me...

What do you think would honestly happen if the US pulls out, an organic democracy?

We are going to end up killing innocent civilians, either by our own Guns and Bombs or in the Civil War that will follow. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, the American occupation is better than the other options, it's not pretty, but it's better than any other option on the table.

Yes the US Military has done some very bad and shameful things, but in context (but by no means whitewashing) it is better than what would happen if we pull out before Iraq is stable. Do you honestly think that the Islamofascists would treat the innocent civilians better than the US? Many US Soldiers will be killed, many innocent civilians will be killed but those numbers would look like a rounding error compared to the number of innocents that will be killed during an all out civil war. Or have you already forgotten the Taliban in Afghanistan or Rwanda?

Ask yourself some simple questions:
What will happen to the Sunnis who moved into Kurdish lands?
What would Turkey and Syria do to the Kurds?
What if Al-Queada takes over?
What if Iran takes over?
What if Al-Sadar takes over?
How vicious would a civil war be between Sunnis & Shi'ites?


While continuing US and British Operations in Iraq does not mean that a worse case scenario wouldn't happen, Pulling out would all but guarantee Genocide, Sharia Law and well funded terrorists.

[Kanary]

18. So, you're going to enlist tomorrow, eh?

[2Design]

11. there is more to this then they are saying at this time is my gut feeling

For Gore, dean and kerry to be saying we are staying...there is more to this.....it is a strategy of some kind ....has to do with the "terrorists" and not making it an issue of if we get Kerry , we leave..... I suspect and I can be wrong....that we won't be there long or in the same capacity if Kerry gets in office....

This has to do with Security and united front....even during an election year....for some reason they don't want to make it an issue of a difference.....

For some reason, I am going to trust my gut, and believe that Kerry, Gore, and Dean will have a plan after Kerry takes office and that plan will work..... That is my gut, intuition, and trust level.

Getting 40,000 more troops is to get the reserve people out of the field. Pushing for a draft could also be a strategy to get Bush not elected.......

So the best I can say is trust that there is a reason that Gore, Kerry, and Dean are going at this in their own way right now....

[mike_c]

14. TRUST HIM? He's already betrayed the left...

...by voting for Bush's war plan. Trust him?! He's made it clear that he wants a shot at running the occupation "better" than Bush runs it.

The least he could do is repudiate his vote for the IWR, but he still stands behind it.

[2Design]

16. yes I too don't understand why so many in congress voted for war

I have continually asked who voted against it... I would love to have a list......

But to change that view now.....for some reason....the timing would not work for our country is my feeling......has nothing to do with kerry....not sure how they will pull it off.....what I do know is that Bush is hell bent on blowing up the world....one country at a time...or maybe many.......
'
So I will go with my trust of the democrats at this time......

[yellowdawgdem]

15. I agree with your point of view

and it's something that has also been a gut feeling for me now, for a long while. That it is not safe for Kerry to come across as the liberal he really is. Any anti-war sentiments would be tied to throwing the purple hearts away, etc etc. If he were to advocate pulling out of Iraq the repubs would have a field day over that. Either way they can find a way to trash him. But it seems fairly minor to just say, oh, Kerry flip flops, or Kerry is Bush-lite, or he doesn't really have a plan. The Dems are identical to the Repubs. I'm certain that they can spin anything negatively. I think he is holding back, and doing a damn good job not to lose his temper and tell them what he really thinks.