Bush Pressured the Pope to Go after Bishops to Deny Kerry Communion

[KoKo]

and get them more activist in "other issues" like gay marriage and stem cell research and abortion.

Josh Marshall (TPM) has the story on his blog. This is absolutely the worst meddling between Church and State I've ever heard. Bush goes and tries to push an ailing Pope into trying to deny Kerry and other politicians the right to take communion.

Here's a quote from Marshall's article and a link to the rest:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Now, just what sort of activisim is it Bush is asking the Pontiff to press upon the bishops?

It seems a pretty small leap to think that pressing the denial of communion issue is one of them. And sources told the National Catholic Reporter that "while Bush was focusing primarily on the marriage question, he also had in mind other concerns such as abortion and stem cell research."

Presidents regularly meet with Popes. Certainly they talk about matters both political and moral, perhaps even theological. But is it the president's place to press the pope to sow religious divisions among American Catholics, a majority of whom seem uncomfortable with the efforts of some in the hierarchy to discipline pro-Choice Catholic politicians? And all that aside is it proper for the president to enlist the Vatican as an arm of his political campaign? The articles noted above make it pretty clear these requests were made for electoral political purposes.

Remember the words ... "Not all the American bishops are with me"

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[louis c]

1. I believe panic is setting in.

and if it does, they will throw caution to the wind, and not only create a landslide for Kerry, but give the Dems. control of Congress, too.

[DeepModem Mom]

2. The press should make this a stinker of an issue --

another example of the Bushies going outside the bounds of American politics.

[Massacure]

3. What is communion anyways?

[LittleApple81]

5. For Catholics IT IS a very IMPORTANT sacrament. It is the

partaking of the body of Christ. And the Catholic Church says it is not a symbolic partaking but a real partaking. I am an ex-Catholic because of many reasons. But when I believed (I was 13 when I quit believing in it) I would not have felt like I belonged to the church if I could not take communion.

[Carl Brennan]

10. I liked the taste of those wafers and rumor

had it that if I let it fall out of my mouth it would turn to blood.

I went back for seconds once at got a good ass whipping.

[Book Lover]

6. Physical receipt of the Host

which is a ritually prepared bread wafer. The below is from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07402a.htm


C. Dispositions

That Holy communion may be received not only validly, but also fruitfully, certain disposition both of body and of soul are required. For the former, a person must be fasting from the previous midnight from everything in the nature of food or drink. The general exception to this rule is the Viaticum, and, within certain limits, communion of the sick. In addition to the fast it is recommend with a view to greater worthiness, to observe bodily continence and exterior modesty in dress and appearance. The principal disposition of soul required is freedom from at least mortal sin and ecclesiastical censure. For those in a state of grievous sin confession is necessary. This is the proving oneself referred to by St. Paul (I Cor.,xi, 28). The only case in which one in grievous sin might dispense with confession and rest in content with perfect contrition, or perfect charity is when on one hand confession here and now is morally speaking impossible, and where, on the other a real necessity of communication exists.


on edit: I don't see how voting can become an act of mortal sin, fyi.

[k in IA]

4. This is so over the line it pisses me off to no end.

:grr:

[otohara]

8. It Never Stops...Every Day

this man will stop at nothing to get elected - Will we be seeing the Pope in the next round of Bush commericals?

[KoKo]

11. Josh doesn't say in the article what the Pope replied to Bush, but this

Pope if very firmly against abortion. What if he sees this as a way to bring his Bishops in line? Would he do this? I know it's said he was totally against the Iraq Invasion and there are some odd stories around that he thinks Bush is the Anti-Christ (not sure if that isn't a disinformation campaign) but what if he thinks he could use Bush to make a difference in Catholics practices here in the US? Could he see this as an opportunity he can't pass up?

Wouldn't meddling in a US election be too dangerous for his world standing?

Even if he doesn't back what Bush wants, wouldn't some of the Conservative US Cardinals and Opus Dei followers push this on their own?

I think Ted Olsen, Cokie Roberts and others in high places are all conservative Catholics. What if this becomes a huge argument in the media and divides Catholics? A Religious Circus? Chris Matthews and Tim Russert are staunch Catholics. What would they do?

[k in IA]

14. I think a majority of US Catholics ,whether pro or anti, do not like

the church dictating to people their politics.

The fundies think everything should be dictated to people but most people would find this very disconcerting.

There is a certain line between politics and religion that Shrub is jumping over with this crap. I think this would piss off moderate Repub Catholics.

[MetaTrope]

17. Fr. Andrew Greeley certain had some things to say

in his Sun-Times editorial this past weekend comparing Bush's America to Hitler's Germany.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel11.html

[smirkymonkey]

7. Bush isn't even Catholic!

I still don't understand why this little meeting took place. As a matter of fact, *'s fundie followers hate Catholics as a matter of course.

Can someone explain to me this interdenominational flirtation to me? If I were a Catholic, I would be very insulted by the fact that a Protestant fundamentalist was trying to influence the Pope to do his bidding.

[DBoon]

9. Especially given his high visibility visit to Bob Jones University

where the Pope is heckled as the anti-christ

[k in IA]

15. I'm Catholic and although there are some very religious Catholics,

obviously, this fundamentalist, evangelical, born again stuff is totally foreign.

[acmavm]

12. This guy has truly stipped all his gears. He went to the Pope to ask for

help in putting people in line with his agenda????? Sometimes I just sit here and think that if we weren't living this shit it couldn't possibly be for real.

It's so damn pathetic and strange it's almost funny. He's begging EVERYBODY for help now.

[TriMetFan]

13. Bush is sniffing our A$$

for our vote. Their are millions of Catholics in the U.S., but what Bush doesn't understand is that alot of us Catholics are Democrat's.

[DoctorWeird]

16. Why the hell does this Pope even listen?

Aren't hardcore Catholics, those that would care the most what the pope says, the same people that think Protestents are going to hell anyway? I'm catholic and personally, I think sending thousands off to war for oil, lying, stealing, and basically screwing over the poor as often as one can are offenses that need some attention as well if one is going to judge the candidates on their positions.

[KoKo]

18. Kick

:kick: