Last night I think I finally turned an Air Force guy against Bush...

[Misunderestimator]

For a year and half we have done nothing but argue, with him towing the military line, "We have to support our President". Last night, at a party, I was asked by someone, "Tell me five reasons why you hate Bush." I was slightly taken aback, and slightly tipsy (it was late), but I answered that: He was appointed by the Supreme Court and thousands of voters were disenfranchised with their votes not counted; He entered into a war with a sovereign nation under the pretense of WMDs and nuclear threat which were all proven to be false; He has caused the deaths of more than 800 soldiers and 10,000 innocent Iraqis; He has gutted environmental protection programs and social services like AIDS research (that one I added because someone else in the room has HIV, and she is a republican... may have been a tad over the line, but ... well, anyway); He has lost over 2 million jobs and given more tax breaks to corporations that offshore their jobs; He cut taxes for the rich but the result is that the middle class and poor are paying more and receiving less benefit.

I had never had the opportunity, uninterrupted, to have a diatribe like that in this conservative group, and the words were just spewing from my mouth. The entire room was silent... then the Air Force guy looks at me and says "That was really well said. I agree with you completely." I was FLOORED.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. WHOA!

He agreed with you?? Is he still going to vote for the idiot-in-chief?

Kudos to you for telling it like it is! How kewl that you had a room full of repubs to benefit from your knowledge. :toast:

[Misunderestimator]

Thanks.... and no, I don't think he's going to vote for him...

I will do my best to bring him into the fold every time I see him. :)

:toast:

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Well done.

What were you drinking? I might need some of it to tone down my usual spout of indignation that usually closes off people.

[Misunderestimator]

4. LOL.... Nothing special... vodka/tonic

As for closing people off... I AM THE MASTER of that... I only just recently took a chill pill and decided that no one listens to me when I raise my voice and get all excited. I was really proud of myself last night.

The woman who asked me the question later got me alone and I asked her if she was going to vote. She said that she was but that she hadn't yet decided who to vote for. I said that I knew dozens of republicans who voted for Bush but were not going to vote for him this time because of all the crap he's done over the past four years. Hoping that little psychology might help her feel ok about voting outside her party. :evilgrin:

[tom_paine]

21. So what? It's the truth? I know at least a half dozen Bush 2000 voters

most Republicans, Old School McCain Types, who are wholeheartdely voting Kerry.

Probably more than a dozen, now that I am counting.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Just had a Right-center buddy e-mail me from Georgia how we "need to clean house in Washington".

That makes #14 or so. I've been Paul Revere-ing, almost unbroken, for 4 years now.

Everybody keep it up and we will Restore the Old American Republic to Health and Vigor!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Misunderestimator]

23. Excellent! And you're right... it is the truth...

I do know several that will not vote for Bush this time around.

:toast:

[merh]

32. Glad to hear repugs won't vote for Bush

But we need to make sure that they vote. If they don't vote at all or if they vote Nader, it will not help the "clean house" effort. We need to make that clear, that in this election a no vote for weed boy will not clean house. We need to them to vote against Bush and to vote for a viable candidate (no Nodder).

[calimary]

45. But if they don't vote - and they would have voted for bush, that's also

a victory for us, and further assists in the house-cleaning. Or should I say House-cleaning (as in House of Representatives!). A Republican voter who stays home will a) not vote for bush; b) not vote for his/her senator; c) not vote for his/her congressperson; c) not vote for whatever conservative propositions or other ballot measures may be at issue; c) not vote for republicans in local or state-wide elections.

One less vote for them is an implied vote for US. It's one less vote for another republi-CON, leaving less opposition for the Dems. So, either way, if they vote against bush, or just give up in frustration and don't take part at all, it's still good news for the rest of us.

[seabeyond]

3. but but but you gave more than 5,......

big thumbs up and so easy to do with this guy huh

[Misunderestimator]

5. LOL... I know... I made it a run on sentence so that they couldn't

tell how many points I was making. :evilgrin:

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Why?

Did they all take the Bush Mathematics course? :evilgrin:

[Misunderestimator]

18. Possibly ... LOL

[Jade Fox]

6. Good for you. Well done.

:toast:

[Stew225]

7. Way to go! Perhaps you should change

your, I don't know, a little help here, hear? Screen name? Handle? Whatever! Well said. I'm saving your post in my reference file. For something off the top of your head and on the spot like that, you really nailed it/him.

[Misunderestimator]

8. Thanks! It was a really good feeling. n/t

[salin]

9. Now THAT is the real meaning of live and UNPLUGGED!

Once given the opportunity... it just flies out. The thing is, that most of what you refered to - is well known enough that even if the conservatives keep making up rationales for each individual thing - it is hard to respond when listening to it all at once... sort of a mass collective effect. Guessing that more than just the Air Force guy needed to hear it. :thumbsup:

[Misunderestimator]

15. That's the thing... it was really a rare opportunity...

If she hadn't asked me such a personal question I would never have had the captive audience. They were all just waiting for my answer.

:)

[salin]

26. kudos to you for so willingly embracing the opportunity!

:D

[tom_paine]

10. Damn! That was well said in the clutch, pal!

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

Mind if I use your words...so concise, so filled with clarity and brevity, too!

[Misunderestimator]

14. Thanks.... please do use it, expand it, improve it....

:)

[Renew Deal]

11. Valerie Plame would have been first on my list.

That just really pisses me off.

[Misunderestimator]

13. Sorry.... I'll add that to my list for the next time :)

[Renew Deal]

29. Sorry about that

I also meant to say good job!!! :toast:

[Misunderestimator]

30. No apologies necessary....

I wish I had added that one, but it was off the cuff... it's definitely on my list for the next time.... He (or someone in his administration) outed a covert CIA operative specializing in WMDs, risking her life and the lives of everyone she has been in contact with forcing her out of commission, for revenge against her husband who dared to stand up against him in his lies about Iraq having sought uranium from Niger.

How's that? :)

[Renew Deal]

31. That's good.

:toast:

[Gyre]

16. Excellent job!

I've got a peer who's a Lt.Col. in the AF/JAG and he and I've been butting heads on this issue since George the 1st. Maybe alcohol is the missing element to converting him but that would mean that I have to be in a social setting w/ him. That would be a problem since I only have so much "give a shit" about what any given repub thinks and I've got little kids and a wife to spend my time with.

Good job tho'!!!

Gyre

[2Design]

17. They have to say that while in the Armed services .... I heard that

recently at the portsmouth parade where Kerry was. There was a navy officer there after the parade. And I asked if he supported Bush or Kerry. Got the same line
We have to support our President

One of the other people explained while they are IN the service they have to say publicly some things.....BUT they can vote anyway they want.

The officer came back with he grew up in New England and was at one time from MAss. So that was his way of answering the question without jeopardizing his requirement to publicly say

We have to support our President

So it seems your friend used that same opportunity to let you know that although he said and probably will continue to say
We have to support our President

He will probably vote differently than that.

[Misunderestimator]

19. Supporting the President

I agree with you, however, THIS guy and I have had many one-on-one conversations, and he has never agreed with ONE thing I've said. This was a major coup.

[Catch22Dem]

25. Not entirely true

When I was in the AF, I could talk about supporting any politican I wanted. ESPECIALLY at a private party. I was an active Gore supporter in 2000, and a Clinton supporter in 1996. You can vocally support anyone you want, as long as you don't do it in uniform as a representative of the military.

In other words, at a party, I could campaign all night for Clinton/Gore, but I couldn't put on my uniform and go to make a speech on the capitol steps in favor of Clinton/Gore. However, I ALSO couldn't make a speech for Dole/Kemp either. That's the deal. You can't "campaign" for anyone while in uniform.

So, I think our original poster really made a breakthrough with this guy.

[2Design]

44. Ahhhh the guy at the parade was in his dress whites....so that is it

[Catch22Dem]

20. That's because Air Force people...

Are the sheeeeit!!!!

(NOTE - Air Force vet here. HEHEHEHEHE)

[Misunderestimator]

22. LOL....

:) :toast:

[tom_paine]

24. USAF Vet here, too! Lots of Good Air Force Folk

Bunnypants* does NOT speak for Free America.

[Kahuna]

27. Woo hoo! You may have made a few converts in that crowd!

:yourock:

[peacetalksforall]

28. Your 'audience of friends' and their ears is the new revolutionary way.

Militant demonstrations and boycotts can be dangerous and sticky and history never seems to treat them accurately. They become ammunition for propaganda and lies. Observers can miss the message. When you have the right wing entrenched in civic positions (exactly according to their plan), you may not even get a simple permit.

Persuasion and education and the airing of thought are golden revolutionary solutions. We have so much more to work with than all the oppressed people who have come before us.

We have to learn how we are being used and lied to especially when we pay for the effort and the consequences.

[grasswire]

33. good idea...

...for all of us to develop a short list that we can rattle off in a quiet but impassioned manner.

To influence military people, I would say that he has "misused" and "damaged" the military by allowing ideological civilians to ride roughshod over the better judgments of military men.

[Jane Austin]

40. Regarding the military

I think the "stretched too thin" and "put them at risk" are important points, too.

I mean, it will take years to rebuild our military from this folly.

(Edited for typo)

[Misunderestimator]

41. Aw, shoot... and of course, turning our reserves into a forced draft...

More notes for next time. Thanks :)

[Misunderestimator]

42. "ideological civilians to ride roughshod over the better judgments...

...of military men"

I like that... I'm stealing it. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Excellent diatribe..and since I KNOW you'll have the opportunity

to talk to this person again...I will forward you links...through Bush, the Republican congress and senate...they are also responsible for cutting ALL of the increased benefits to veterans achieved under the Clinton administration (which were substantial)and more..especially in Veteran's hospitals...the tragedy of which is that there are at least 9000 disabled vets from Gulf War 1...the number of disabled vets from this war will be exponentially higher...a casualty for which there is STILL no accurate number and growing...with less resources to address....is that SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS?

Edited for clarity

[Misunderestimator]

36. Excellent, thanks.... Another regrettable ommission...

I think I need to write up some bullets for myself so that I remember more handily the next time. Thanks! :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Nothing to regret at all...here's how I see it

If you are going to feed a friend some salami - are you going to cut it up in little bites and feed them a piece at a time? Or slam the whole log down their throat all at once?

[Misunderestimator]

38. ROFL.... until lately, it's been the whole log!

I've taken the advice I've gleaned off many threads here at DU and toned down my passion a bit. At least where politics is concerned. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. Understood...

Almost everything in moderation ;-)

[Trajan]

35. ONE thing we should always add when we speak to 'shaky' GOP voters ...

They could always vote DEM ONCE: ... and then see what 4 years of Kerry can do for them ... In 4 years, they can go back and vote GOP again if they arent pleased ...

Kerry can only moderate our present course: He SURE as hell cant make it WORSE than George W. Bush ...

Bush is no fiscal conservative, and cannot be a joy to ANY GOP except the social conservatives AND Neocons ...

[traco]

43. Wow

Good job :thumbsup:

[Aunt Anti-bush]

46. Congratulations!

And keep up the good work. :)