Poppy's warning to Son in Speech at Reagan's Funeral

[KoKo]

I wrote these two comments down from his emotional eulogie at Reagan's funeral yesterday because they stood out. While not as lengthy as Ron Reagan's comments in the private funeral which were a clear cut stab at the Chimp's "wearing his religion on his sleeve," Poppy's comments can be viewed as another statement pointing at his sons tragic flaws.

Here are the quotes about what Poppy Bush said he learned from Reagan: "..he taught me kindness and courage." and "..he never made an adversary into an enemy." The latter is a definite comment on the mess his son has made in the world, imho.

The "big guns" indeed are warning the Chimp and probably working against him if one can look at Poppy's comments and Ron Reagans.

I hope I can find a transcript of Poppy's speech because there were some other comments which were far different from his son's belligerant, self promoting eulogie. But, when I Googled I couldn't find a transcript.

ON EDIT: Please see Post #4 where "AntiCoup" has put the text of Poppy's speech there, and there are more interesting quotes in my reply to #4. It's really worth a read for understanding the psychodrama between father and son and their views.

[DaveSZ]

1. Interesting

Yes, I know poppy's father financed the Nazis, but poppy himself fought against them. It almost makes me wonder if he sees similarities, however slight, of what he fought against in his son.

I don't like the Bush family and what they've done, but it's hard for me to ever be mad at a WWII veteran.

I have too much respect for them.

[Just Me]

27. Causes me to wonder why he hates his father so damn much!! eom

[LittleApple81]

2. Here is a link to MSNBC take on both Bushes' speeches:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5192465/

I don't see the complete pere speech but this is a good contrasting analysis between the two.

[KoKo]

8. Thanks....I'll check it out. n/t

[FleshCartoon]

3. Okay.

Why didn't they just line up in front of Dim Son at the funeral and let everyone go up and pop him a good one in the face?

It seems like he was the uninvited and oblivious aunt or uncle you try to overlook when there is a family event, but who manages to find out about it and show up anyway. While there, they dominate the conversation and seem impervious to all the pointed remarks directed at them.

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. Poppy's speech here

sorry for pasting the whole thing, but I don't have a proper link for it - copied from another board

Text of former President George H.W. Bush's remarks at former President Ronald Reagan's funeral.

When Franklin Roosevelt died in 1945, the New York Times wrote, "Men will thank God 100 years from now that Franklin D. Roosevelt was in the White House."

It will not take 100 years to thank God for Ronald Reagan. But why? Why was he so admired? Why was he so beloved?

He was beloved, first, because of what he was. Politics can be cruel, uncivil. Our friend was strong and gentle.

Once he called America hopeful, big-hearted, idealistic, daring, decent and fair. That was America and, yes, our friend.

And next, Ronald Reagan was beloved because of what he believed. He believed in America so he made it his shining city on a hill. He believed in freedom so he acted on behalf of its values and ideals. He believed in tomorrow so The Great Communicator became The Great Liberator.

He talked of winning one for the Gipper and as president, through his relationship with Mikhail Gorbachev, with us today, the Gipper and, yes, Mikhail Gorbachev won one for peace around the world.

If Ronald Reagan created a better world for many millions it was because of the world someone else created for him.

Nancy was there for him always. Her love for him provided much of his strength, and their love together transformed all of us as we've seen - renewed seeing again here in the last few days.

And one of the many memories we all have of both of them is the comfort they provided during our national tragedies.

Whether it was the families of the crew of the Challenger shuttle or the USS Stark or the Marines killed in Beirut, we will never forget those images of the president and first lady embracing them and embracing us during times of sorrow.

So, Nancy, I want to say this to you: Today, America embraces you. We open up our arms. We seek to comfort you, to tell you of our admiration for your courage and your selfless caring.

And to the Reagan kids - it's OK for me to say that at 80 - Michael, Ron, Patti, today all of our sympathy, all of our condolences to you all, and remember, too, your sister Maureen home safe now with her father.

As his vice president for eight years, I learned more from Ronald Reagan than from anyone I encountered in all my years of public life. I learned kindness; we all did. I also learned courage; the nation did.

Who can forget the horrible day in March 1981, he looked at the doctors in the emergency room and said, "I hope you're all Republicans."

And then I learned decency; the whole world did. Days after being shot, weak from wounds, he spilled water from a sink, and entering the hospital room aides saw him on his hands and knees wiping water from the floor. He worried that his nurse would get in trouble.

The good book says humility goes before honor, and our friend had both, and who could not cherish such a man?

And perhaps as important as anything, I learned a lot about humor, a lot about laughter. And, oh, how President Reagan loved a good story.

When asked, "How did your visit go with Bishop Tutu?" he replied, "So-so."

It was typical. It was wonderful.

And in leaving the White House, the very last day, he left in the yard outside the Oval Office door a little sign for the squirrels. He loved to feed those squirrels. And he left this sign that said, "Beware of the dog," and to no avail, because our dog Millie came in and beat the heck out of the squirrels.

But anyway, he also left me a note, at the top of which said, "Don't let the turkeys get you down."

Well, he certainly never let them get him down. And he fought hard for his beliefs. But he led from conviction, but never made an adversary into an enemy. He was never mean-spirited.

Reverend Billy Graham, who I refer to as the nation's pastor, is now hospitalized and regrets that he can't be here today. And I asked him for a Bible passage that might be appropriate. And he suggested this from Psalm 37: "The Lord delights in the way of the man whose steps he has made firm. Though he stumble, he will not fall for the Lord upholds him with his hand."

And then this, too, from 37: "There is a future for the man of peace."

God bless you, Ronald Wilson Reagan and the nation you loved and led so well.

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. GHWB a liberal?

"If Ronald Reagan created a better world for many millions it was because of the world someone else created for him."

Where's the personal responsibility thing in that statement? :shrug:

[FleshCartoon]

6. Geez.

That was a wonderful speech. I can't believe I'm saying so, but it's true--I'm getting weepy and this is the part that started it:

And then I learned decency; the whole world did. Days after being shot, weak from wounds, he spilled water from a sink, and entering the hospital room aides saw him on his hands and knees wiping water from the floor. He worried that his nurse would get in trouble.

[KoKo]

13. I wouldn't get carried away with Reagan because of that story, though. I

think he was probably a charming, graceful courteous person that we would have loved if we had met him. But, there are many reports that Shrub is a charming, gracious, courteous man that we would love if we met him, too.

It's the policies not the man we've got to focus on or anyone can be made into a saint because how they appear to folks has little to do with what they really think or do if they achieve power.

But, I understand that after the last week, we are trying to understand the personal Reagan rather than the public one who was a terrible President if you were Middle Class or Poor or a Person of Color in America during his Presidency.

Not dissing you, here...just trying to keep my own perspective.

[FleshCartoon]

16. Oh, don't mind me...

...I'm just pre-menstrual. I'll weep or rage at anything right now. Heh.

It was good, touching speech, in all seriousness. It had just the right amount of sentiment without going overboard with it and just the right amount of pragmatism about Reagan as a man within his presidency.

It even acknowledges that Gorbachev had a part in the breakdown of communism, though it might lend equal credit to Reagan for it, which is not exactly accurate. But it's better than giving Reagan all the credit while leaving Gorbachev out altogether.

[KoKo]

10. Thanks Much, AntiCoup! Did you read it and see these quotes...

Well, he certainly never let them get him down. And he fought hard for his beliefs. But he led from conviction, but never made an adversary into an enemy. He was never mean-spirited.

and then he adds this bible quote: And then this, too, from 37: "There is a future for the man of peace."

And this (which makes you wonder why Poppy had to learn kindness from Reagan...how does one LEARN kindness :shrug:)

As his vice president for eight years, I learned more from Ronald Reagan than from anyone I encountered in all my years of public life. I learned kindness; we all did. I also learned courage; the nation did.

[doni_georgia]

21. These lines stood out imparticular to me

He was beloved, first, because of what he was. Politics can be cruel, uncivil. Our friend was strong and gentle.

Once he called America hopeful, big-hearted, idealistic, daring, decent and fair. That was America and, yes, our friend.

The good book says humility goes before honor, and our friend had both, and who could not cherish such a man?

And then this, too, from 37: "There is a future for the man of peace."


Notice in line number two Poppy said, "That WAS America" not "That IS America." Very telling.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. Here is a previous article from 2003 describing the policy split....

Bush Sr.'s 'message' to Bush Jr.
<http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/10/18/bush_srs_message_to_bush_jr/>

Excerpt:

"But the news from College Station, Texas, this week -- that the First Father, former President George H.W. Bush, has given his own most treasured award to Senator Edward Kennedy -- is nearly as astonishing.

When it was announced (with amazingly little fanfare) that the pugnaciously anti-Iraq war Democrat Kennedy had been awarded the 2003 George Bush Award for Excellence in Public Service, so many jaws dropped all over Washington that usually voluble politicians were only heard swallowing their real thoughts.

Since the current President Bush veered away from the real war against terrorism in Afghanistan and went a'venturing in Iraq, much to his father's dismay, just about everybody close to Washington politics has known of the policy schism between father and son."

[KoKo]

11. This verifies his saying "There is a future for the man of peace." in his

eulogy then. He was definitely going after his son. A gigantic battle of titans (or pygmies, depending on how one views the Bushes) when his father takes a funeral as an opportunity to give advice and warning to his son.

But, now that I think about it, Woodward's latest books has something about Bush not taking advice from his father but from God. The exact quote had a slam at his Dad, but I've forgotten what it was. Something like his father's advice wasn't worth listening to or whatever.. Woodward thought it was strange in one of the interviews I saw with him.

[DeepModem Mom]

9. Think you're right -- and Ron also noted "strength" used with "restraint"

among personal virtues, and I think he meant that to apply to nations as well.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

12. Poppy also had his buddies (Scowcroft, etc.) warning against the Iraq war.

Scowcroft is one of Poppy's best friends and went around speaking out against going to war with Iraq. A few other friends and former cronies also did so. People in the know were saying that this was Poppy's doing. Since Poppy couldn't do it himself - he sent others out to deliver the message. As we all can see - it didn't do a damn bit of good.

[starroute]

14. The more the CIA works against Jr., the more I wonder about Sr.

Is it possible that Bush Sr. realizes he has created a monster in his son and is doing what he can to correct the damage?

That possibility occurred to me a few weeks ago as it began to seem that the CIA was actively working to oust Bush Jr., but I dismissed it as too far-fetched.

Now I'm not so sure.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

18. Dowd: "Junior Gets a Spanking" (from Poppy Bush)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB081EFB39590C7B8DDDA10894DA404482&n=Top%252fOpinion%252fEditorials%2520and%2520Op%252dEd%252fOp%252dEd%252fColumnists%252fMaureen%2520Dowd
Junior Gets a Spanking
By MAUREEN DOWD
Aug 18, 2002

-snip-

Tissue issues between the two Bush presidents spilled into public view on Thursday when that most faithful family retainer, Brent Scowcroft, wrote a jaw-dropping op-ed piece in The Wall Street Journal headlined "Don't Attack Saddam." Mr. Scowcroft gave the back of his hand to conservatives' strenuous attempts to link Saddam to 9/11.

-snip-

"Scowcroft is now more critical of Bush's foreign policy than Sandy Berger, which is mind-boggling," says Bill Kristol, a Bush I veteran who edits The Weekly Standard. No one who knows how close Mr. Scowcroft is to former President Bush — they wrote a foreign policy memoir so symbiotic they alternated writing paragraphs — believes he didn't check with Poppy first. Did 41 allow his old foreign policy valet to send a message to 43 that he could not bear to impart himself? "A Republican with close ties to the Bush inner circle said today that Mr. Scowcroft would not have made his warnings so public without knowledge from the first President Bush"


The father is hypersensitive about meddling and reluctant to give advice. He doesn't want his pride to get in the way of his son's making up his own mind on what's right.....But Bush the elder must be fed up with being his son's political punching bag. On everything from taxes to Iraq, the son has tried to use his father's failures in the eyes of conservatives as a reverse playbook.

-snip-

But Mr. Cheney brought in Don Rumsfeld, an old rival of Poppy's, and he was joined at the Pentagon by Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. This group is far more conservative, unilateral, ideological and belligerent than the worldly realists: 41, Scowcroft, Colin Powell and James Baker.....The Bush I moderates worry that the Bush II ideologues will use terrorism as an alibi for imperialism. Bush II thinks Bush I is trapped in self-justification.

-snip-

[pa28]

19. It's worth looking at.

As much as we disagreed with the policies of Bush Sr. I think he genuinely wanted to leave the country in better shape than he found it. Bush Sr. is not a stupid man and must perceive that Jr. is courting disaster on two fronts that seemed especially important to the elder: the budget and our standing in the world.

While Barbara is working her pentagrams to ensure election I think it's possible senior may be quietly acting as a saboteur.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

15. Eagleburger: "Perle and Wolfowitz are devious... I'm scared to death."

Aug 16 2002
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6204

-snip-

Former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft, widely viewed as a mouthpiece for his boss, former president George Bush Senior, warned that a U.S. invasion of Iraq "could turn the whole region into a cauldron and, thus, destroy the war on terrorism." Former congressman and staunch Republican Jack Kemp noted the lack of evidence linking Iraq to the September 11th attacks, and added, "I don't believe we are ready to start another war when Afghanistan has yet to be pacified and the Middle East remains in chaos."

-snip-

Eagleburger questions possible Iraqi move
Former secretary of state cites timing
August 22, 2002 Posted: 2108 GMT
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/22/eagleburger.iraq/?related
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger said Thursday President Bush has not yet made a convincing case that now is the time to take military action against Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

-snip-

Eagleburger becomes the latest Republican to publicly question the Bush administration's planning on Iraq. Others include Brent Scowcroft, who was national security adviser to Bush's father; House Majority Leader Dick Armey; and former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

-snip-

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,4930727,00.html
I DON'T think is legitimate policy at this stage, unless the President can demonstrate to all of us that Saddam has his finger on a nuclear, biological or chemical trigger and he's about to use it. We have no demonstrated appearance on the part of the administration that they have really thought through what it's going to take to overthrow him. I'm scared to death that the Richard Perles and the Paul Wolfowitzes of this world are arguing that we can do it in a cakewalk, when I think it will take some hundreds of thousands of troops at least to be sure that we can do it correctly. And we haven't seen any reserves called up.

I think are devious. They have been committed to getting rid of Hussein for years because they think we should have done it the first time around. They have convinced themselves that it could be done on the cheap by using these people who are anti-Saddam Iraqis. I think there are at least six of them. I have no idea whether they can be used or not, whether they are real people or not and whether they would succeed or not. I am scared to death that they are going to convince the President that they can do this overthrow of Hussein on the cheap, and we'll find ourselves in the middle of a swamp because we didn't plan to do it in the right way.
Lawrence Eagleburger, secretary of state in the first Bush administration, on Fox News Sunday

[KoKo]

17. Thanks for putting these links together. In the context of what Poppy

said, reading these snips does make it lool like there's more behind what's going on in the CIA and with all these leaks to the press.

I remember reading these comments, but then when Chimp went ahead and invaded, I thought they had all given up and decided to let the Neo-Cons have there way. Looking back they were trying to stop it. Maybe that's why Baker was called in (the family savior) to go and try to get more money for the WAR and probably to try to plead for more cooperation when things started to go badly in Iraq.

Kissinger to me is evil, though. I can see him plotting with the neo-cons along with the Bushs. I've seen him on the Pundit shows and he seems to defend the War...so who knows. But Eagleburger's comments are chilling, reading them now...

[KoKo]

22. kick

:kick:

[Leilani]

20. Really interesting thread!!

Another point in Poppy s speech, about how Reagan comforted the country in times of grief.

Reagan never hid the caskets; one of his strongest abilities was to reach out during disasters, like the Challenger. Bill Clinton was so wonderful at this, also. They showed their empathy, & they really cared; it was not an act, & the American people felt this about both of them.

Also, Reagan loved the military, & did not use them as cannon fodder.

The Shrub has no empathy for the American people, & it shows. It is all about HIM, HIM, HIM. Deaths of soldiers? Who cares, except it might be a political liability.

[yardwork]

23. I wish I could feel better about this, but I am so angry at Poppy

for letting his son steal the election. I am so angry that dimson was coddled and spoiled and given everything he ever wanted in life, and the result is that a spoiled monster was unleashed on the globe!

Whatever subliminal messages Poppy may be sending, and whatever he may be doing behind the scenes to try to help, it's too little too late. The time to act was when his evil son was stealing the election.

Conservatives love to accuse liberals of being bad, indulgent parents who won't take responsibility for their kids' behavior. What do we have here except a spoiled rich kid who was given everything he ever wanted and never asked to take responsibility? Good god and goddess.

It's a little late for Poppy to be feeling remorse now.

[KoKo]

24. As a parent I wonder how far you can go with your kids. Greek Tragedy..

Poppy bailed his kids out with his connections, or maybe the kids on their own knew how to "use" their name and connections. I think the whole Bush family is a study in how money corrupts and the evil dragon lady of a mother they had still doesn't give me sympathy for them.

But, at some point the "fathers legacy" and "ego" does mean that the father must "lop off the head of his son." There's a Greek Tragedy about this...but I can't remember which one it is.

But, if you knew your child was a monster how far would you go short of "lopping off his head" to try to stop him from bringing misery on a nation or on himself, and on your own reputation on the World Stage. Poppy was a failed President. Only got elected because of weak Dem Candidates. Now, he sees his son bringing down the Bush name and causing more problems for his Carlyle Group and cronies.

But, behind it all, there is still "family." And, it still plays out as some distorted Greek Tragedy with Oedipal Complexes and whatever. It's been a long time since I read those Tragedies...but there's something there for those who aren't as distracted as I am who could pull this together. A Shrink, maybe. :D

[lumpy]

26. Bush Sr. is concerned about

his own 'legacy' at this 'point in time'. His public whining and begging the public to understand his son's personna/actions is a ploy to deflect any interest the public might have in Poppy's flawed career. Bush Sr. clearly was and is a member of the power players. He fingers were in every plot to bring havoc to other nations. Sickening that people are wont to excuse and turn away from the truth of the corrupt leadership of people such as Poppy and Reagan.

[lumpy]

25. Poppy Bush says:

"he (Reagan) never made an adversary into an enemy". Bushwah. Reagan had an ongoing hatred for Ghadafi and made no bones about it. Ronnie called Ghadafi all kinds of derogatory names and had no problem bombing Libya trying to 'get' his enemy.

[Gloria]

28. For the life of me, I'm still trying to figure out why Reagan is being

touted as being "kind." On a personal level? Because I remember his 8 years in office as being decidely "unkind" on many levels...policy wise, but also in persona. He always came across as rather snide on social issues, at least to me, which is where I would expect to see "kindness" or understanding.

[KoKo]

29. The folks who interacted with him loved his "chummieness" and "jokes"?

They saw the man they might have had dinner with or invite to a social occasion because he was "witty and charming" but when he went out into the "political or business world" they saw him as an "operator or a shark"...a man one had to watch his back because the knife would be stuck in..if you didn't approve the deal?? :shrug:

Just supposing about this, Gloria, but haven't we all run across "charming sellers of snake oil...or Oil Privitization" like Ken Lay or P.T. Barnum (if one goes way back) whom everyone LOVED Personally...but
when it came to "business" you knew they would steal you blind.

I don't know...I think Reagan was a better person than many of us think, but his POLICIES were a DISASTER...he was a prisoner of his own WHITE/WESTERN AMERICA closer to the Pioneer Romantic version of America
than the one that even existed when he was President.

Reagan's adoration comes from those longing for the "wild west view" of America. The Aaron Copeland Songbook of the American West...rather than the realistic view of what we here in the New Millenium know about America.

Maybe the truth lies in the middle. What we think we are..and what we are in America needs to be fought over until we really do reach a true middle. Our track record hasn't been great..:shrug: