Should I be........afraid of Andrew Sullivan?

[mopaul]

should i be ashamed of myself? perhaps, i am an asshole, and i do say nasty things occassionally.

should i be nicer? perhaps, it's a constant struggle for an asshole like me.

should i be more like you? i would never be so arrogant as to suggest to anyone to be more like ME, so don't ask me to be more like you.

should i be repentent? of what? i didn't kill thousands of innocent people in central america and rob the national treasury.

should i be quiet? should YOU be quiet?

should i be more civil? perhaps.

should i be banned from DU? that's up to the mods, this is their site, we are just visitors.

should i apologize? to who? if to anyone, it would be to the mods, but i have opinions like we all do, some are quite nasty. reagan never apologized, bush never did either.

should i retract my statement and fall on my sword? just asking.

i honestly don't want to be a pariah to DU. i love DU and i love the interaction and keyboard karate, and the varying opinions. but i'll leave forever if this would help DU. it ain't about me, it's about DU. if i've brought shame and damage to this forum, and if it would be a better place without people like me, i'll understand.

and i'll also understand if this thread is locked or removed. it may be inappropriate for me to even be starting this thread, but, i've caused a shit storm, with my nasty comments about 'figuratively' pissing on reagan's grave. i never really pissed on it, i said i'd like to 'figuratively'.

finally, this is not some cheap 'vote for me' popularity contest i'm devising to save my ass or soften my nastiness. i stick by what i said, i hated reagan with an unbelievable passion. and it all came out saturday.

[dbt]

1. You have only been guilty of SAYING

what a hell of a lot of us have been THINKING. This whole climate of incivility had its genesis in Reagan's sucessful rollback of the FCC's Fairness Doctrine.

It was that one move which opened the door for Talk Radio, a medium in which bloated and bilious white males were (and are STILL) allowed to advocate violence against elected officials and/or minority groups.

Literal or figurative pissing on graves pales in comparison to the daily ration of HATE and VIOLENCE that spews out of your average AM station. And it all began with REAGAN.

I support mopaul,

:bounce:
dbt
Assholes For Mo
Little Rock Chapter

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. You have the right to say what you will

As I recall, you haven't broken any DU rules. And DU seems to be the only place where one can go and give one's unvarnished opinion about a B movie actor whose greatest role resulted in breaking unions, endangering the environment, and opening the door for the right wing hacks who spew hate over the airwaves.

Another Arkansan supporting you.

[Art_from_Ark]

20. Add me to the list

of mopaul fans from Arkansas :hi:

[greatauntoftriplets]

3. Aren't Democrats in favor of free speech any more?

I'd rather read your rants and laugh at your artwork than read half of what I see on DU.

A non-Arkansan (but an Illinoisian) in your support.

[acmavm]

4. Why so contrite? Reagan was a either a truly evil man, or a truly stupid

man who could remember his lines (unlike the current Idiot-in-Chief).

Strange, a few of us here remember what it was like back then, and we did feel a visceral, gut wrenching hatred for the man who gave us all that horrible grief. What is there to say about a guy who caused so damn much damage.

No one said anything bad about their families. And I sincerely doubt the family was here reading posts. AS for the freepers, that kind of stuff comes from them everyday.

Reagan is getting a lot of credit for greatness. Instead people should recall his sarcastic mean spritited insults to everyone who thought or felt different than him. He put us on the road we're on today, we're having to refight to clean up the mess he caused in the first place, either by complacency of complicity.

If you can't be honest here, what good is this place?

[mopaul]

6. some contrition, some concern for DU

when i see these threads that say my comments will be USED by rightwingers, i figure the poster is making me the sacrificial goat as a representative of all of DU. that makes me nervous, and i never thought about it, except on the surface.

but do we have to watch what we say for fear of some on the other side using our words against us? i don't know. but it is weird that they even come here to read anyway. it looks like they are just trolling for an embarrassing subject line or sentence.

now i'm keenly aware of it. and it makes me nervous

[Baltimoreboy]

14. Nervous? You must be joking

You throw deliberate incendiary comments out faster than anyone I've ever seen and you are concerned about an, "embarrassing subject line or sentence."

Methinks thou protesteth too much.

Sullivan didn't make up what you said, he merely pointed to a microscopic piece of it.

[H2O Man]

34. Don't be nervous.

Your comments were the source of debate on DU. And debate is a good thing. And, while your comments verged upon extremism, we all know that "extremism in defense of liberty is no vice." (grin)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. F___ the other side! Press on, mopaul...this fight will continue for...

...several decades, if not longer.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. You should just be

yourself.

So quit worrying and get out there and kick some more butt.

[OKNancy]

7. A person doesn't have to post or speak

about everything they think. I certainly use self-censorship in my daily life, and my online life. There are ways to communicate without being offensive.

I suppose some people don't care what DU looks like or about Democrats in general, but I do. I enjoy politics and the art of politics. I think good and smart politics requires being circumspect and thoughtful.

It's not a right or wrong thing IMO, it's just that I think we need to ask ourselves...."is this a smart thing to write?"

[mopaul]

8. yes i see your point.............n/t

[REP]

9. Oh, Please!

I think you're funny as hell, but I don't think you all by your lonesome could bring shame to DU - especially since you merely cited St Ronnie's real record and your opinion of him.

The only thing I think you should worry about is if they spelled your name right.

[LiberalCat]

10. Another vote for mopaul

Democrats have been nice for too long.

My mother used to tell me to never voice my opinion, because people would use it against me. I've learned that if you don't give your opinion, people will walk all over you.

I say, stand up and voice your opinion. If it's from the heart, so much the better.

When I come to DU and am unsure whether to enter a thread, I look at the originator. mopaul's threads are always interesting. Don't leave us, mopaul!

[mopaul]

11. I was in an argument with a former republican friend recently...

and he and i were having a pissing contest, who could insult the other's president the baddest, and he kept saying the most awful things about clinton. he called clinton a sexual predator, which to me is a lurking child molester, or worse. then he started on the clinton death list bullshit, so then he started praising reagan as if he were jesus, and i pulled out the piss on his grave line and he went silent. stunned at my awful words. then and only then, did he 'get it'

[BeFree]

29. Conduct & Content Police- They bothering you again?

I may not agree with everything you say - I don't - but I will defend your right to say it, as long as it's true.

Imagine RR hearing about a mopaul dieing... he would have cracked a joke about such an occurence, eh? Well, the tables have turned. RR is getting what he deserves.

Damn the Conduct & Content Police on this board, be free of their influence, let freedom ring.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

63. OK but let our freedom ring to...I respect his right to say his piece

and my right to say mine...seems to me there's content police on both sides of this issue..those that want the content to be as raunchy as they wish without any dissent.

If you're going to defend free speech then defend that speech that takes you to task for yours...it's ALL speech.

[Oddman]

12. Opinions from other people are just that . . . opinions.

They hold no power, they don't really matter.

If you allow yourself to be defined by other people's standards, opinions, and abilities you will no longer be living your life, you will no longer be speaking your thoughts, you will conform yourself to the "beliefs" of other people and by doing so you will lose yourself.

Think of all the people who had the courage to speak out about their beliefs, their convictions. Without them where would we be? We would certainly not be a free country.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mopaul]

17. did i alert you? i don't remember, but let's kiss, and make up

you and me scrotim, can't we be friends again?

[scrotim]

19. do you insinuate Freeper-ism regarding all your "friends?"

Do you alert on all your friends?

Do you drink heavily while posting at DU?

[mopaul]

22. seriously though scrotim, be my buddy

i like you, please like me

[scrotim]

24. seiously, Mo, I'm going to continue to dislike you while you like me

thereby making you the codependent, needy one in this very sick relationship.

kisses.

[mopaul]

27. come back soon though, the minutes seem like hours, hours like days

[Jim Warren]

18. WTF are you talking about?

There are over 45k registrations on this site, 1000's of users daily, 17 different boards including the 50 state forums. DU is not about mopaul. He's one user and his own man but speaks not for all.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scrotim]

54. Pathetic. I've been a dem all my life.

and I don't need you to tell me how to think or feel or express myself.

I'm sure mopaul can defend himself; go away.

[H2O Man]

40. I disagreed strongly with mopaul yesterday....

.... and he made clear that he was able to understand, appreciate, and respect my point of view. If your post was deleted, it may have been because you make disagreements personal. That seems to be one of the things that doesn't play well on here. While I do not always agree with the decisions on deleting things on here, that's just the way it is. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that mopaul had your message zapped, is there?

[scrotim]

55. umm...certain posters are allowed to make personal attacks frequently

of course, it also helps to have trigger-happy "alert" fingers.

some people never get over their hall monitor days.

[H2O Man]

57. Oh, sure .....

one night, a lady referred to me as an "asshole" and said I hated teachers, because I commented that school administrators sometimes treat teachers unfairly. Yikes! Also, on another thread further ahead of this one, a person is saying some ignorant and racist things about a specific group of Native Americans....when I challenged her on one of her incorrect slurs, she used a novel as a source. But these are not yanked .... and I'm not wanting them to be. (Yet I was once for making a tongue-in-cheek comment about a fellow who insulted one musician and favored another.... hardly "fighting words")

Anyhow, here is a thought that I keep in mind: if you put two glasses of water in front of a thirsty person -- one clean and one filthy - that person will generally select the clean glass of water.

[Scurrilous]

15. Maybe...

...someone could get Skinner to place the letters WWFT (What Would Freepers Think) underneath the 'post message' button. That way each time we go to post a message we could momentarily reflect on what we just wrote and consider how hurtful our words may be to the Freepers who lurk here. God forbid we should offend anyone with our opinions.

[greatauntoftriplets]

26. Even better!

Perhaps we should run things by Free Republic before posting it here, test the waters so to speak to see if it will offend them or not. It'll be a pain in the ass, what with having to register and re-register over there, but anything to avoid offending!

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. The only problem with "Democratic Underground" is the name

it makes it easier for right wingers to misrepresent the site as semi-connected with the Democratic Party. And I think that's why people are afraid of links to us sometimes - they think it could be made to look like a party activist saying it officially, rather than a private individual. You have every right to say what you did, as long as the administrators are happy with it.

Free Republic has less of a problem in this respect - if they were called something like "Republicans Unmuzzled", I bet they'd get quoted as examples of Republican hatred far more often. It doesn't take 8 years of power for someone to become the object of their insults - just existing is enough for most minorities, liberals, etc.

[Vickers]

51. "Republicans Unmuzzled" lmao

Hahahahahaha!

:toast:

Oh, and mopaul? I think you could kick Sullivan's ass, both with the pen and with the sword.

Yer buddy,

Vickers

[mopaul]

53. i bet i could too

that image in my head will get me through the day

[Nlighten1]

21. Mo Paul for President!

We need someone who isn't afraid to tell it like it is...

[mopaul]

23. i will not run for a second term

i'm way too busy posting on DU

[Baltimoreboy]

25. What a totally different original post

It seems 100% changed, not edited. Oh well.

It is not just about you, though you certainly led the charge with post after post after post -- each deliberately more offensive than the last. Is it any wonder a bystander such as Sullivan pointed this out?

[salin]

30. There did seem to be a tad bit

of escalation that could be read as intentional self-promotion... almost could be read as seeking the attention from the outside that was ultimately found. May not have been the intention, may not have even been read in that light by all, but there was this certain quality... one, two, four threads not enough... couldn't add on to the thead started... seemed to read as if the point really came down to that next shocking (and attention grabbing) thread title. Sorta read as if that was the point.

Say what you will - it is your choice. But at least know how you appear, even to some of your allies.

If it were to get to the point where the point of DU was screeching for the sake of shock and screeching, and no longer a place to follow issues, pick them apart, educate longtime and casual readers about current and historic political issues - a place where those working directly towards changing the political system (be it grass root involvement, participation in larger regional/statewide/national campaigns, or working with (or being) in the media)... or if the place became so discredited as being the Howard Stern of the Internet (great fun for sme - but not a credible source for information)... then there is perhaps a disservice?

Is there not room for both? My beef is really more the escalation of multiple threads each title more intentionally shocking than the rest that seemed to be more grandstanding and self-serving than anything else. If those who try to use this as a political news analysis tool/forum - generally don't get in your way or try to interfere with your use of it as a venting place... is it possible that you might just use a little awareness that we coexist here and use a tad bit of restraint from time to time? Again - half of those titles/thoughts could have easily been included in one of your earlier threads... couldn't they?

Sometimes when you (probably inadvertantly) try to push others out... or to discredit their more serious work by association (again not with a thread or two at the time but with the whole series of escalation of threads - and with a rather aggressive approach to those who didn't agree - and you weren't alone in that)... there is either a shove back, or a pull back (as in... succeeding in pushing those out... and for the first time ever, I have to admit, that looks like an option for me.)

Wouldn't be so blunt or frank, but you asked.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Andrew Sullivan has NEVER been just a "bystander". He has a...

...definite agenda to discredit anything that appears in print or voice that tears down ANY conservative icon or belief. Sullivan will do that, day in and day out, rain or shine, until the day he is totally discredited or quits the media business.

Mopaul voiced what quite a few of us were thinking...get over it.

[Baltimoreboy]

39. No, I choose not to

Anyone who visited DU during the weekend would have been shocked at Mopaul's deliberately over-the-top comments.

And if Mopaul's comments voiced what quite of few of you were thinking, I suggest thinking some more.

[salin]

41. Mo Paul invited comment

and some of us disagree. so get over it.

[Hubert Flottz]

28. If you "Shut Up" the Terra-ists have won!

I had to lie to my dad every day for about 6 weeks when he was dying from lung cancer! I was trying to get my dad's social security disability started and thanks to Reagan Dad had been turned down even though he was dying of cancer! I got the letter six weeks before Pop passed away from Social Security saying my Dad should go on back to work! I showed the letter to Dad's doctors and they were as pissed off as I was!

The docs told me not to tell Dad, because they didn't want me to upset him! My Dad asked me how his social security claim was coming along about every day when I went to the hospital! I had to stand there at the foot of his bed and look him in the eye and lie to him every time he asked me about his disability! Reagan may have forgotten but I won't! I can't! I knew, that above all else, my dad hated a "Damned liar"!

Why the Venom, is a stupid question IMHO!

[Ironpost]

31. Be brave

be bold, be honest. We love you here at DU, it wouldn't be the same without you. 'O by the way you have a way with words. Many more post thank you. Any way MoPaul and the rest of the DUers have a great week every one.

[devinsgram]

32. My computer has a mouse

If I don't like what I read, I click it and move on. Enough said!

[LittleApple81]

33. POSTS SHOULD REFLECT THE POSTER. Skinner and mods can

eliminate posts they consider not appropriate. Therefore, if this is not done, the poster has every right to express his/her opinions. And the rest of us have the option of participating, hiding, or just ignoring the post.
The posters' opinions REFLECT THAT: a person's opinion. And this is an open forum.

[Baltimoreboy]

35. The obvious implication of that however

Is that by allowing posts and posters, the Powers on High tacitly endorse them.

[LittleApple81]

46. Not endorse.The main concerns of DU administrators seem to

relate to threats to somebody's life, libel, uncorroborated sliming, and spousing of RW ideas without argument. As long as the opinions reflect reality and liberal points of view it is not censored. That is my impression, anyway.

[Baltimoreboy]

61. I don't claim to know

But I saw one of the Reagan threads locked precisely because it was such obvious flamebait. That is their right. However, it is a form of editorial control.

[MadChatter]

42. I'm a grown-up

and I know what SOB means. I don't have to read anything I don't want to.

[EdGy]

43. Thank You mopaul!!

I appreciate so much that you were so direct and honest.

We are being inundated with unbelievable spin, lies, deceit and sugar coating of one of the worst presidents in US history.

It's important for everyone to remember he was not "beloved," but in fact very much hated by many many people around the world.

Fuck Andrew Sullivan, he's a pathetic sack of shit as we all already know...

[Malva Zebrina]

44. Maybe if you had said "urinate" or "micturate" it would have been softer.

:hi:

Ray Talliaferos show this morning was largely devoted to pointing out the evils of Ronald Reagan and no holds barred. Lots of callers pointed out so many things that were simply just plain evil. I was not a politics junkie then and did not realize just how evil he was.

[Walt Starr]

45. Count me in with you, Mo

I'm just another asshole for mo.

[qb]

47. I support mopaul

I was out for the weekend. I don't know if what you wrote is still up or not, but I think I got the gist of it.

As big as it is, this is still just a message board. People are invited to speak their minds. If something incendiary gets quoted or deleted, Oops... sorry. It's not going to break DU or the Democratic Party.

Drive on!

[Mandate My Ass]

48. Mo, what have you been up to?

You have a gift for pushing the envelope. Some
will be offended from time to time. The decision
as to whether to apologize has to come from your
own heart.

All the rest is between you and the admins I guess.

I thoroughly enjoy your rants and your cartoons.

From one asshole to another, DU wouldn't be the same without you. :hi:

[Hubert Flottz]

49. The truth is our most powerful weapon against EVIL!

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels

Reagan picked on Mopaul first!

[mopaul]

50. I owe reagan some hate from way back in the 80's

when i was repeatedly refused ss benefits and told that i was not 'disabled enough' to qualify, even after proving in several physical examinations that i was BORN that way. i fought and fought and finally, right after clinton took office, bingo, i received benefits. and bingo again, as soon as bush took office, I OWED THEM MONEY. it's taken me 7 years to pay them back.

so yes, i owe ronny some bitterness

[Hubert Flottz]

58. There was no work here!

I ate so much Reagan cheese I had to put a screen over my ass to keep the rats out! Sympathy can be found in the dictionary between Shit And Syphilis!

When Reagan's second term began, is when the bottom really dropped out here in Wv! If Bush wins in November it will be a hundred times worse than when Reagan's deeds became unaccountable to the voters, upon the winning of his second term! Bush does not need to worry about accountability to the other two branches of the government now, because the GOPers control all three branches! When Bush is no longer accountable to the voters, nor the system of checks and balances, Pandora will emerge in full force!

[UTUSN]

52. I Vote for You. n/t

[Jose Diablo]

56. Come-on Mopaul

I would rather hear what you really believe than a hundred "decorum" posturings.

If anything, many of us expressed exactly as you did. I don't feel any need for remorse whatsoever for how I feel, or express myself. Nor should you.

There is nobody else, anywhere that has walked life's path exactly as you have walked it. Like all people, you are unique and just as rare as a fine diamond. Your world view is the sum of your experiences and only you possess all those experiences. I welcome your 'true' expression of what you see and feel. How else can I know if what I think is true unless others are willing to be expressively open in what they see and feel.

So, please, get off your knees. In the reality of it all, of all the people you encounter, one percent will love you, one percent will hate you, the other 98 percent will wonder whats for lunch.

You are a fresh air of honesty in a world loaded with crap.

There are more steps ahead.

[Q]

59. Never admit mistakes...never apologize...

...and it all goes down the memory hole. This is the golden rule for GOPers.

- The more mo the better.

[mopinko]

60. from one mo to another

go! you the man!



editted for ambiguity

[bicentennial_baby]

62. Rock on Mo

Don't let the fuckers get to ya!