The most interesting thing to me, reflecting on Reagan's death, is that,

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

as opposed as I was to most of the Reagan politics, how I feel that the Bush II Administration is SO MUCH WORSE and more dangerous for the country. I would never have thought it possible until the last couple of years.

I guess it's true that Reagan set the stage for an administration like this, and it's possible that they would try to be the imperial presidency as much as shrub has if they had had the full Right Wing Noise Machine in play like it is now. But somehow I don't even think so. Reagan actually won elections big and had much more of a mandate than shrub will ever dream of having, and didn't pull the stunts of shrub administration.

[LTR]

1. He won '84 fair and square

The 1980 election was a bit questionable, though, given the timing of the release of the hostages in Iran.

[rfranklin]

4. So, using that logic, if Bush gets elected finally...

all the criminality of 2000 will be washed away?

[LTR]

6. I didn't say that

Just stating a fact.

He had luck, momentum and a weak candidate in '84.

And this year's election will likely be more chaotic than '92.

And the criminality of 2000 has already been swept under the rug by our so-called 'liberla media'.

[mopaul]

2. it's a natural line of progression, there'd be no bush without reagan

bush 1 helped create the myth and the presidency of reagan, then tried to have him killed but failed. bush jr. is the extension of reagan/bush, interrupted for 8 years by a real president.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. I also feel that the Reagan admin set the template for the "genial puppet"

type of president where, to appeal to lowbrow America, it's actually an advantage for the president to not be particularly intelligent or well spoken, and the appearance is that the president is an affable guy who is a puppet for malevolent and powerful interests. In the case of shrub, energy companies, military contractors, neocon ideologues like Wolfowitz. Cheney.

Kind of funny how shrubco tries to have it both ways with this. Mostly they play this tobacco chewing Texas redneck shtick. When they get called on how stupid he is, they like to point out his Yale and Harvard degrees (a disgrace to my alma mater, IMO).

[TahitiNut]

10. Reagan is modeled after the animatrons ....

... in Disney's "Hall of Presidents." He was the second "media president" after Kennedy - politicians with performance talent whose actual, tangible accomplishments were amplified ("spun") in the public psyche due to a 'photogenic' appearance.

[supernova]

3. Intentions

As much as I disagreed with Reagan at the time, I genuinely got the feeling he didn't understand the consequences of his policies. I think he was genuinely oblivious to the whole budget deficit issue. I think he had good intentions, he didn't understand the cause and effect very well.

With Bush, I clearly understand he undstands the consequences and persues dangerous policies anyway.

[jus_the_facts]

8. I don't buy that logic.....he was a life long behind the scenes puke......

....his oblivion then without a doubt was an OSCAR winnin' performance...and I'll go so far as to imply...for the last 10 years...is also questionable...seems his *illness* was the BEST possible excuse to keep him quiet for so long...whether or not he was really naturally sick in the head...or maybe a PSYOP was done on him..what with their sinister definitions and ideas about NATIONAL SECURITY?! :tinfoilhat:

[LeahMira]

7. He would've if he could've...

I guess it's true that Reagan set the stage for an administration like this, and it's possible that they would try to be the imperial presidency as much as shrub has if they had had the full Right Wing Noise Machine in play like it is now. But somehow I don't even think so. Reagan actually won elections big and had much more of a mandate than shrub will ever dream of having, and didn't pull the stunts of shrub administration.

I think that what we need to understand is that while Reagan had charisma... he was an actor, after all... the people really wanted what he was offering. They wanted fewer regulations on businesses because they felt that the regulations were preventing businessmen from making as much money as they could have. They really wanted the U.S. to use its clout to put an end to the Soviet Union and communism which, for some reason they saw as even worse than fascism... probably because of the "godless" thing. They really wanted an end to welfare because they felt that they were paying for lazy people to live comfortably and were sacrificing their own comfortable life to do that.

I don't think that the "Right Wing Noise Machine" is so much a cause as it is an effect. There are a group of very frustrated, very right wing folks out there who got organized, which is why Bush is where he is.

Somehow, among other things, these folks have to understand that wealth is not unlimited. For a while, the U.S. had a new land to exploit, but at this point there is no frontier. There are limits... unless we take over the resources of the rest of the world. For every dollar a businessman gets, there is a dollar taken out of a poor or middle class pocket, whether in the U.S. or somewhere else in the world.

Some Americans don't care if their prosperity is built on someone else's back, but it's coming to the point where some Americans will be building their prosperity on other American backs. If middle class Americans want to avoid that, they have to be convinced that it could happen. I don't think they are so altruistic that they are willing to become impoverished so a few others can be fabulously wealthy. The sad part is that right now, many actually think that wealty will eventually trickle down to themselves... despits all evidence to the contrary. Maybe we ought to start teaching about the robber barons and how the rest of the people lived back then.

[xchrom]

9. reagan is the cornerstone

of modern neoconservatism in action.
bush could never have been elected without the flowering of this movement.