for DU women . . . (please try to hold your tempers) . . .

[OneBlueSky]

from this site . . .

Capitol Ministries
http://www.capitolministries.org/index.html

Capitol Ministries is singularly focused on establishing biblical ministries in State Capitols throughout our nation - and eventually the world - in order to bring the Gospel of Christ to elected officials. Currently, we minister to legislators in several state capitols, ranging from California and Oregon in the west, to Pennsylvania and North Carolina in the east.

comes this article, by one Pastor Ralph Drollinger . . .

Holding Office While Children are at Home
http://www.capitolministries.org/docs/CA/2004/CA04-26-0...

Women with children at home who either serve in public office, or are employed on the outside, pursue a path that contradicts God's revealed design for them. It is a sin. In doing so, they sacrifice God's highest calling -- to influence their children for Christ.

In the long run, motherhood is the greatest influence a child-bearing woman will ever have on the human race.

- more, unfortunately . . .

http://www.capitolministries.org/docs/CA/2004/CA04-26-0...

[DarkPhenyx]

1. So why is this just for DU women?

It is impossible for the DU men to be just as outraged by this stupidity? Are we, as men, supposed to automatically agree with these mysoginists?

[Arkana]

16. I'm with Phenyx on this one

I think the male population of DU, if it has any brains, would be outraged over this as well. Talk about Stone Age-misogyny.

[Nederland]

2. Screw that

I would be disappointed if "DU women" held their tempers after reading this tripe...

[Nobody]

37. I hold my temper long enough to take aim

Be warned, I throw like a girl. And when I throw like a girl, it means I hit what I aim at.

[lil-petunia]

3. WOW

These geniuses make a great case for retroactive abortions.

maybe Applied Darwinism can handle it, though.

[radwriter0555]

4. LOL! This is FUNNY! How can you not see the humor in this

bizarre cult idealogy?

Thank goodness organized religion is dying out. But it's only natural it expires with cave man BS like this.

[Mountainman]

5. I guess all those single moms should stay home on welfare

Wait that was the problem in the 90's. Too many welfare queens sitting at home collecting welfare and popping out babies to get more money.

Now I guess the should stop the workfare and go back on welfare. No they can't do that either. I guess they should just die and rid the world of the excess population.

[Mel]

17. you got it

damned if we do, damned if we don't These people hate women and think we are beneath them.

I'd rather be a 'Corporate Welfare Queen' I'd be living large off of the government/tax payers trough

Anyone that's paying attention knows that's who gets the best government hand outs.
I could even pay off some legislatures (they're cheap) to legislate myself a few laws and get myself even more loads of money!
Now that they got their 'War On' I could get myself some profiteering weapons contracts (doesn't matter if they work or not) Bet I could even break some laws and get myself a 'get out of jail card' too.
Heck being a 'Welfare Queen' is for losers. {sarcasm irony} To bad all those Welfare Queens couldn't get jobs being "Corporate Welfare Queens' they could be rich and wouldn't have to leave their children at home either what a great gig!

[Pithlet]

21. They should go with their children

and dumpster dive for Christ, of course.

[charlyvi]

50. Me Jane You Tarzan

But you see, RWers think women ought to have their babies, stay at home and let their BIG STRONG men take care of them; after all, that's God's revealed plan (soooo much sarcasm). Isn't it odd the way they want to force a woman to have a child, but don't think they ought to help at all once the baby gets here?

[MissB]

6. My decision to leave my career and stay home with my kids

had nothing to do with religion. I would not be influenced in any way by these people. I'm a liberal with an engineering degree. And a full-time stay-at-home mommy. Big deal. I gave up my promising career because it was best for *my* kids, not because of some twisted religious dogma.

We're not going to turn into a theocracy. Bully for them for their opinion, but I really don't care what they have to say. What they have to say won't influence those that don't have the same beliefs.

They're dreaming if they think they'll change people's minds. A bunch of fucknuts, frankly.

[Djinn]

7. Never did read manuals much!

And, because God designed their circuitry this way, their ultimate sense of fulfillment and inner peace will only be attained to the degree they adhere to the owners manual.

Culturally imposed sexism from the Bible every bit as odious as that within the Koran - just that many Christians have chosen to ignore those bits.

Strangely I'm happy to keep taking my instructions from ME rather than some dead men writing 1500+ years ago about another dead man who died a few hundred years before that

[baldguy]

8. The HOUSE is where women belong...

...and the Senate too.

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. If they are TRULY preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ....

...then I have no objections. But if they're really trying to make THIS capitol city into a bastion of right wing conservatism, that will happen about the same time Hell gets an NHL franchise

[Borknagar]

10. oh lordy

Who can freaking afford to stay at home and not work?

Where in the Bible does it say this?

These people are making a mockery out of my religion. They are making things up out of thin air!!!!!!!

I, being a man, am appalled at this ridiculousness. I am so sick of this wackos distorting my religion and giving us all a bad name.

[Auntie Bush]

30. Welcome to DU Borknager

[SarahB]

11. Being a good mother is a huge influence to the human race, HOWEVER....

1. We are not all Christian.
2. We have brains as well.
3. Even is someone had babies until menopause, they still have another 30 years left of NOT breeding. I guess we should just shut up and knit booties for the grandkids then.

I feel very proud that so far I have done an excellent job of being a mother, but is that the ONLY thing I am? No. Is that the limit to what I can accomplish? No. Do I have even more to offer the world? YES!!!

[Cleita]

28. Well said.

Mothers also are not the only influences a child has. There are their teachers, extended family and often the mothers of their friends who also help raise a child. Mothers are important, but to a lesser degree so are all the other people a child comes into contact with.

[AlCzervik]

12. Is capitol ministies

going to pay women the same salaries they make working for staying at home? do they decide how many children they can have, how they are dressed, what kind of car they can drive or if they're even allowed to drive at all? Shouldn't Capitol ministries start calling themselves by their real name....The Taliban and just admit they are on a Jihad?

[MsUnderstood]

13. The Jehovah Witnesses

Do not allow their women to speak in church.

Luckily they also do not allow their members to have any part of politics. That is one religious branch we don't need helping out the Bush Religious wackos.

[KoKo]

14. PSHAWW! But, thanks for the DU Alert to this crap. n/t

[doni_georgia]

15. The saddest thing is that there are poor ignorant women out there

who buy this line of shit that their only value is to squeeze out some puppies and raise them to be little robots. Just saw a news story about a women who just gave birth to baby number 15 and plans to have more. I have a friend from college who has bought into this "quiver full" mentality. Husband is a lazy, sack of shit. They live in a hell hole, he doesn't make enough money to support one person, yet she stays home and homeschools the kids, and is pregnant with number 4 and planning on "as many blessing as God will give us." She has had numerous miscarriages, has high blood pressure, and has a blood coagulation problem which requires her to give herself injections 3 times daily. All of her births have been c-sections, and doctors have warned her that she shouldn't have any more kids. My own doctor refused to deliver her last one, because he said she was a ticking time bomb. But she buys this line of bullshit that says her only worth is to have babies and "grow them God's way." Makes me sick. She was once an intelligent thinking person with a lot of potential. She now weighs over 300 pounds, and has absolutely no life outside of sitting at home with her kids, and making sure that dinner is on the table for that redneck caveman she married.

[DarkPhenyx]

23. You wouldn't be questioning how another human being...

...chooses to live it's life...would you?

As long as they aren't trying to force it on me, mine, or anyone else for that matter how they choose to live their life is their issue. Noone elses. Many men and women have fought and died to ensure they have the right to make that choice if that is what they want.

And the nice little southern bashing "redneck" comment was cute. :roll:

[doni_georgia]

27. Pulease, as a southerner I take that long understood right to call my

fellow southerners rednecks - especially since this one calls himself one.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their life - I hate what has become of my friend. She is endangering her life. I'd be just as vocal if she was abusing drugs or booze. She is clearly unhappy. She sits at home an eats, eats, and eats some more while screaming at her kids all day. She truly believes that if she doesn't submit to her husband she will go to hell. She often talks about what career she would have pursued had she not gotten married. My friend knows how I feel. I have told her flat out, that in my opinion I think that it would be more godly for her to take care of her health and be here for her kids she already has than to risk her life continuing to have kids when doctors have told her it is very dangerous. She agrees that she wants to be here for her kids, but she truly believes any type of birth control is a sin. She has been brainwashed by people like this group above. It pisses me off! Sorry if this offends you. I truly care about this person, and I really don't want to see her die because a bunch of men have decided that her only worth is to stay bare foot and pregnant. If that makes me intollerant - oh well - touche!

[DarkPhenyx]

31. At least you admitted you are intollerant.

Even if they self-ID as a redneck it still does not give you the right to use it as a pejoritive term. You are assuming that all that do are mysoginistic wife beaters, or that they are ignorant females. You would be wrong on that count.

Now, as for your friend. You cannot live her life. That is her duty. I would hazard to guess that you would be quite offended if someone were to berate you about how you have choosen to live your life. So long as she entered into it willingly, and she isn't being kept in it against her will, then you really do have no right at all to talk down about her. She might be unhappy, but it is her chpoice, and one assumes she's an adult. You call it brainwashing. The RW fundies say the same thing about homosexuals ya know.

I ahve a good friend as well. She want's to get marrried, have a few kids, be a stay at home mom. The white picket fence 1950's dream. She gets a lot of shit from her more "enlightened" friends about it too.

I've never understood "freedom of choice so long as you make a choice we're happy with" as an attitude. It's more of an attitude problem in my book. Ranks right up there with the concept of the "more equal animal".

[sandnsea]

18. "doctrinal significance of Israel"

They're out of their minds in more way then one.

http://www.capitolministries.org/oregon/index.htm

I live in Oregon.

Hold me.

[Cleita]

19. I will issue a challenge to these ministers.

If they feel women should do all of this, then they and their congregations should be prepared to give the women all help they need to stay at home with their fifteen children. They need to make sure they are provided with decent homes, food, clothes, education and adequate supervision. As a matter-of-fact, laws should be passed demanding that they do so. I bet if they legally had to take care of all these women and children, you will see a real about face with these clowns.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

20. Blah blah blah

same ol' same ol'. I live in Texas. I've heard that shit all my life. And that's exactly what it is, shit.

If a person really is a Christian (or even believes in God only) they generally believe in God's will for a person's life. How can these idiots claim to know God's will for EVERY mother's life? Ridiculous.

Tired of fake Christians trying to legitimize their bigotry and hate with religion.

[justjones]

22. Bwahahahahaha! Yeah, right. Pay my rent fool, then I'll stay home (n/t)

[KamaAina]

24. Remember Kay O'Connor from Kansas, Top Ten Conservative Idiot?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/01/top10_200...

She's an "old-fashioned woman" - damn straight! Yes, Kansas state senator Kay O'Connor recently took the unusual step of declaring the 19th Amendment to be a load of hogwash when she was asked to appear at the Johnson County League of Women Voters' "Celebrate the Right to Vote" luncheon. She declined, telling organizer Delores Furtado that "You probably wouldn't want me there because of what I would have to say." Well at least she's as honest as she is bonkers. According to O'Connor, "Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women (today) we wouldn't have to vote." Apparently O'Connor doesn't care much what her constituents think of this view. "If I don't get re-elected, my only punishment is to go home to my husband and my roses and my children and my grandchildren." How nice.

Let me see if I've got this straight. She's willing to serve in the legislature, but doesn't think she should have the right to vote?!

[mzmolly]

25. DU women, try to hold your lunch!

[SOteric]

26. !

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DarkPhenyx]

32. Nicely sexist comment.

Well done.

So you believe women never screw anything up?

[alcuno]

34. While it is sexist, it's also factually correct.

Of course women screw things up. But causing chaos and oppression in the world? Hardly. We don't have the power or, generally, the thirst for power that men do.

[DarkPhenyx]

36. Two words

Maggie Thatcher.

Would you like me to go on? You are so incredibly wrong it would be hard to know where to begin, but I would do my best. Let's see. Ann Coulter and Condi Rice would be another nice pair of examples. Mary Queen of Scots. Bhoudica.

[neverborn]

38. Ann Coulter is your response to Pinochet, Mao, Hitler, Stalin, and Bush?

[DarkPhenyx]

40. No...

...that would be Maggie and Bhoudica. There are others of course. Madam Mao would be a nice counter.

[alcuno]

43. Oh please.

You can give a handful of examples while I could go on into tomorrow with names and atrocities. It's not your fault and it's not all men, however, to try and argue that men are not the overwhelming power, power often not used for good, in the world is ridiculous. You have only to look at this country, which many would argue is the most democratic and most free on the planet. Look to our Congress, our administration, our judiciary, our corporations, and our state governments and you will find that while women are 51% of the population, when it comes to power, they are probably less than 20%.

[DarkPhenyx]

44. Women do no better...

...when they are in charge. They also do no worse. To claim anything else is to turn a blind eye to history. It is sexist adn bigoted at a bare minimum. Yes, I gave a handful of examples. There are, of course, more. Apparently you are not interested. Oh, well. Not an uncommon reaction. "True believers" never want to question their deeply held beliefs. It amkes them uncomfortable.

[alcuno]

48. Since we're not in charge of all that much, it's hard to compare.

In order to do a fair comparison between men and women in charge, you would have to have an equal number of each in positions of power.

However, my point was that it's true that men have caused the majority of the chaos and mayhem throughout history; that has been a result of their power. Do I believe that if women held the same level of power that they would do the same? Nope.

You have only to look at violence in this country, and who causes it, as a guide to the way women would act if they were in power.

[DarkPhenyx]

49. Using your apparent...

...lack of logic it can also be said that men have created all that is wonderful and good in the world...since women have not had a real opportunity to do so. Historically speaking of course.

yeah. the women who weer in power at Abu Ghraib, to include the female commander, sure showed female compassion once they were in charge. Nice job.

As I said before. You are either intentionally ignoring inconvenient historical precedent, or you are not well informed enough. Either way I really do suggest you take the time to read more.

[alcuno]

53. Actually, I wouldn't disagree with you.

If you look at art, literature, music, architecture, etc., the bulk of it was created by men. The same goes for ideas that changed the world; space exploration, the jet engine, the printing press, the assembly line, the telephone, the computer, etc. But just as they own the good, they also own the bad.

That little private was in charge in that prison? Hardly. As for the commander, she should go down with the ship. Likely that they were just trying to be one of the boys.

[DarkPhenyx]

55. You forget...

...there were three women in that group of soldiers. Damn near equal numbers with the men.

It bears pointing out that you don't have to be in charge to cause chaos and woe. Come now. You are are parsing things a bit too fine I think.

[alcuno]

56. Like this?

Three women in an institution dominated by and run almost primarily by men. Women fought hard to be allowed to join the military, but don't ever forget that it's still a male institution. They all deserve to be in jail, but that's unusual behavior for women. People were shocked to see women in those pictures but I heard many suggesting that the men were just participating in frat boy pranks; standard operating procedure.

[DarkPhenyx]

60. Try this. It's closer to reality.

People were shocked to see women in the pictures because most are still immature enough to believe that women are pure as the driven snow when, in fact, they are as equally likely to commit atrocities when presented with the same set of stressors.

You would find that they were saying that the entirety of the episode was a "frat prank" not just the mens involvement. You really do want to insist on holding to this blind faith in the absolutely goodness and purity of women don't you? Amazing. Truely amazing. Sad too.

[neverborn]

39. I agree.

[DarkPhenyx]

45. So?

You agree. Big deal. It does not make the point any more valid. Men are not the sole repository for violence and woe, and women are not the saviors of all mankind. One would have hopped that by now at least Liberals would have matured past that crap by now.

[neverborn]

61. "Mankind" - point taken.

[skippysmom]

33. Memo to Ralph Drollinger:

Fuck you.

[powergirl]

35. I guess Mary Matalin needs to pack it in

A couple of years ago on Cross Fire, James Carville was discussing some religious kook that Bush wanted to appoint to some admin position. This kook wrote several papers about how women should submit to their husbands and do what they are told. James commented that he agreed with that theory and he wants his wife to talk to this guy to get this conservative thing straight. That was pretty funny. Can you imagine Mary Matalin taking orders from James????

[Cleita]

42. I have seen James visibly cower on TV when Mary attacked

his position.

[Nobody]

41. This just in direct from God

All fathers who call themselves fundamentalist right wing Christians must obey their wives in everything, never think an independant thought apart from taking care of the children, and never complain. God has declared that it's woman's turn to be the head of the household and that the men must submit.

After all, it's a man's highest calling, to be a daddy rather than just a father for Christ.

(OK, I know this is tripe, but any idiot can make wild claims and say that God told them. Who can disprove it? This line of BS is giving otherwise good, kind, tolerant, and reasonable Christians a bad name.)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. They are here in CA!

Calif. lawmakers stage 'domestic revolt' to protest pastor's remarks

By JENNIFER COLEMAN, Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - State lawmakers staged a "domestic revolt" Monday, some donning kitchen aprons and scarlet "M's" to protest a pastor who characterized female legislators with young children at home as sinners. Democratic Sen. Debra Bowen went barefoot on the Senate floor, bringing along a toaster and other kitchen accessories to her desk.

"Today, I'll be serving up a billion dollars in savings for PG&E customers, identity theft legislation ... along with bacon and eggs, getting my shopping list together and preparing to can," she said.

State legislators were offended by what the Rev. Ralph Drollinger, who leads a Bible study class for lawmakers, wrote during a Bible lesson in April.

"It is one thing for a mother to work out of her home while her children are in school," wrote Drollinger. "It is quite another matter to have children in the home and live away in Sacramento for four days a week. Whereas the former could be in keeping with the spirit of Proverbs 31, the latter is sinful."

http://www.modbee.com/24hour/politics/story/1392092p-86...


I want to find out just who is paying for these bible studies...if taxpayers dollars have ANYTHING to do with them...watch out!

[loyalsister]

47. I know a legislator I'd like to share this with

One Cynthia Davis- Republican State Rep. from Missouri. She's proud member of Concerned Women For America, has 7 children (many of whom were born during her tenure in the House), and owns a Christian bookstore.
You can't make this stuff up!!

[NC_Nurse]

51. HAHAHAHAHA!

what a crock of shit!

[sophie996]

52. don't get mad

... get laughs. this is why a lot of california's elected women wore aprons to work yesterday in sacramento. at least one man, sen. john burton, joined them.

arnold?

naah.

[marigold20]

54. No surprise

In our state assembly district, a very conservative, obnoxious widow with five kids ran for the seat. She was soundly defeated and we heard that the fundies greatly disapproved of her and didn't work for her at all due to her kids, not her views.

[Mari333]

57. The women's march on DC this year , biggest in history

Methinks a few disgruntled fellers will get quite a comeuppance when they start to try to push women around like this.
The last dying embers of misogyny.
One of the largest demographic groups in this country is baby boomer women.
Our kids are grown.
No one is allowed to mess with us , or with what we accomplished over the years.

[kaitykaity]

58. The burqas and the

clitoridectomies will be next.

They really are the American Taliban.

[freeforall]

59. Umm, the Goddess told me that this is bullshit (n/t)