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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:25 PM
Original message
"I fear all we have done is to waken a sleeping giant...
...and fill him with a terrible resolve."

- Rear Admiral Yamamoto, Navy of Japan December 1942.

Ya know. I believe much the same could be said now of the situation America now finds itself dealing with in the Middle East as regards Iraq. Except this time, we are the Imperial Japanese Navy, and the giant speaks Arabic.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. And It Can Also Be Said...
...of the situation the GOP now faces as more and more Americans wake up.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. One can only hope.
Unfortunately I am a cynic, and not much of a believer in the intelligence of my fellow man.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great analogy
I remember the quote.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. If they really decide to kick us out, it won't take long (nt)
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MASSAFRA Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. My analogy
would be we just agitated a hornets nest. We are getting stung everyday. Our military can handle the daily death of a few individuals because the military sees it as an acceptable cost. Hopefully the American people will think the cost is to much for what we are getting.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. About that quote...
I didn't find it in the biography "The Reluctant Admiral". I wonder if he really said it. In the Movie TORA! TORA! TORA!, he said it in front of a large number of witnesses, so it should be a matter of public record. (It was December, 1941, by the way.)

I read that book last year around the time of the run-up to the Iraq Fiasco. I saw great parallels between the Japanese Army and the Bush cabal. Yamamoto and the Navy were the cooler heads who knew that the war was a huge mistake.

Another quote of Yamamoto's (found in both the book and movie mentioned above) was something like "we won't be able to stop at Hawaii. We'll have to take this fight all the way to Washington D.C." He meant that America would never accept defeat unless America was totally defeated. Simply sinking the American Fleet wouldn't be a victory for Japan. Ironically, American officers or agents thought he was advocating an invasion of the USA, and concluded he was a rightist.

The result was that Yamamoto was assasinated by American planes in the South Pacific. Had he lived, there might have been the chance that he would have become prime minister in the late days of the war, and moved to end the war at that time. Or so some say.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It was in Pearl Harbor
although I think it was Hirohito that said it this movie.

I only remember because it just seemed idiotic to me, "Lets bomb America!" "oh crap we bombed America!"
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yamamoto was far to skilled and deadly to be permitted to live.
He was the consumate warrior, and to have allowed him to live on the 'chance' that he might have become PM was far too great a risk to take. The Americans made the right call by shooting his plane down, IMO.
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Jack from Charlotte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I've heard others say that to, however.....
what exactly did he do to show he was "skilled?" He planned the disastrous Pearl Harbor attack that awoke The US. OK. OK. He didn't want to start the war the army did. Fine. But Pearl Harbor was still a military clusterf**k.... The biggest loss was to 2,000 Army and Navy guys. But in terms of military assets lost, the biggest loss was to some B-17's and some fighters. The Navy lost hardly anything useful other than The battleship Arizona. They lost the WWI ship, Nevada, whose job was to pull targets for target practice. All but a handful of ships were raised and on duty in a matter of months. The Japanese also failed to take out HUGE fuel tanks at Pearl that would have been more costly than either ships or planes lost. In addition, they failed to wack the Pacific side of The Panama Canal, which would have been easy and hurt The US badly.

So again, What did Yamamoto do to get his reputation?
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Two points.
It was only a sneak attack, and therefor a really bad move, because the announcement of hostilities was delayed in translation. Combine this with the fact that his plan was brillient, it was the failure to follow up the highly successful first wave attack, a decision made by his subordinates, which caused it to ultimately fail.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. In Yamamoto's defense
The failure to follow up with the planned second wave attack was Admiral Nagumo's descision aboard the flagship Akagi. He also refused to attack Midway on the way back as he was instructed too.

Yamamoto himself figured there was no way Japan could defeat the US, and a preemptive strike had no better than a 50-50 chance of working, he thought.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah. No kidding
The blowback is going to be horrific
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nope the ME is no giant.
In fact if it ever came to a "REAL WAR" there would be no question that the entire Islamic world would be destroyed.

This is much more akin to the troubles the Romans and the British had with their empires.

If only this were a war that was justified in that we HAD to defend ourselves. We might actually be fighting it like a real war instead of the kind of banditry we are engaged in now.

It's hard to win a war that you can't fight full force. That is why we must never "choose" to go to war.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Only if it came to a "real war".
This is the same mistake the Freepers keep making. It would never be a real war.
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's funny you recite that quote.....
in your post, as it has been on my mind alot lately. I, too think of it whenever I watch the daily news or get online to read about the day's events in Iraq and the Middle East.
We have spawned 10,000 bin laden's with this ill fated and unholy excursion into Iraq and we have given them a common cause that will have far reaching effects for decades to come. I'm afraid we really did awaken a sleeping giant and they are angry beyond comprehension after burying their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, husbands and children.
It is part of the Iraqi culture to avenge the wrongdoing someone has done to a family member no matter how long it takes and as the proud inhabitants of the cradle of civilization, they don't take kindly to being occupied either.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. A bit of a stretch
More like a hornet's nest.

The mighty Soviet army couldn't handle Afghanistan, not because they were overpowered, but because they were being bleed to death by little wounds.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Oh! Sure!
Go ahead and nit-pick an anology will ya! He said "giant" not "hornet nest". Sheesh! ;-)
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Given the size of the Islamic world ...
"Giant" is appropriate.
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