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Egalitarian Zetetic Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:55 PM
Original message
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that 40% of every demographic supports
bush?

I mean i thought the youth were supposedly idealistic and peace loving. The fact that bush has 40-43 out of every hundred worries me. Maybe i just had the pleasure of growing up around liberals, or maybe in the years since i left school, something changed.

What does he have to do to drop below the sane number of 35%
I honestly believe the, america is a dumb nation notion. of course not everyone is a moron but as a country, the fact that bush will get 40-50 million votes says a lot about us to the world. Shit britan kicked churchill out after wwII, and bush is the worst president ever and still wielding good numbers. This makes me wonder sometimes, if you put certain issues on ballots those bushistas would support it and have the nation resemble germany circa 1933. I honestly am more worried about the courts, as long as we have a majority vote in all high courts i could feel reasonably secure.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. where did you get the idea that youth are idealistic and peace-loving?!?!
Not the youth I know. Many of them favor Bush's childish, schoolyard bully approach to terrorism: kill Arabs.
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Egalitarian Zetetic Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. well i was apart of the seattle rock opposition to 80's crowd in the early
90's and i just looked at things differently i suppose.
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artistforpeace Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. I'm with you Zetetic....
Same time period, same optimism held about youth. I think things are a bit different then lets say 91 because of a few things.

First media. The youth (as it was in 91) are very influenced by mainstream media. When you watch Fox News they always have this clever way of making things sound sensible. CNN is not CNN of the early 90s. But you cant blame it all on media.

Second no idealist charismatic leaders. Ive said this many times, Bill Clinton was my generations JFK in 1992. This was especially realized in me when he visited Ohio State University in the fall of 92 when I was a student. I was twenty, it was a perfect fall day and you could just sense the change that was about to happen. That day changed my views about politics and politicians forever. Yes it sound idealist (remember I was 20 and at college) But before that fall, I had felt everything that my generation was trying to accomplish in creating a world we wanted, had to be done counter-culturally. Thats what we were in mainstream America anyways right? Empathic generation X. Anyways I really felt Clinton ignited my generation because no longer did we feel we were working only from the outside. That there was someone fighting inside AND had plans that seemed would work. Kids and young adults need that sort of tipping point event in their life and belief in their leaders.

Third 9/11. I think this has really messed up young adults (17-22) and how they look at the world and America. Someone that was 16 on 9/11 is now 18 almost 19. I think these kids that were 16-20 on that day really are part of a generation that believes in might makes right and the world is out to get us. Remember the feeling that any day the USSR was going to nuke us? I lived my entire childhood like that (especially growing up so close to Griffis AFB). Now think about growing up post Berlin Wall when we all felt the world was finally finding the right path. People who are now 16-22 grew up in their young and pre-teen years not having that constant fear. Then 9/11 happens and its the 80s all over again. Can you imagine developing during the 90s only to have society once again focused on the world wants to kill all of us again when you became a teen? We as adults who live some or most our lives and/or childhood under the bad Russians might have the same fear again, but its not a new feeling, its just a return to our past so I think we can cope with it a bit easier. We have seen it both ways and know we can yet again return to the right path. I think the youth after 9/11 saw their apple pie Britney Spears is awesome world was changed and they wanted it back and looked for someone to tell them it was alright. And where did they look? They looked to adults (media) and to their government for reassurance. And they said, "its alright, youre fine, just remember though people want to kill you and you family in your sleep!" Now trying to remember how it was to be a teen and then trying to put myself in the place of a teen during this time, it makes sense whats happening. Think about even from a pop-culture standpoint. Why hasnt the teen angst cycled back in to teen culture? Because these kids are trying desperately to hold on to what they perceived as good from their childhood. Thus pop-culture just getting pop-ier (sorry off point here). They havent had the decade+ time period to say enough is enough and begin to fight against pop culture. And if they do, the market has created a clever formulation to just track the kids in to safe angst outlets like the current prefab metal bands, etc that when you read all the lyrics are just badly written self-torment analogies. Just enough to bang your head for 4 minutes and then go back to being a good American. Its all quite clever and horrifying if you think about it. Welcome to the machine!

I just hope that someone like Kerry can become a leader for this age group to look up to and allow them to see that the world is really what we make of it and not about abstract fears that a few power hungry individuals place on them. I hope its not too late for them.
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Borknagar Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. we like
We like violence in the US as long as it doesn't happen on our streets. People think that GWB is a strong leader. Many people like the idea of tough talking and flexing muscles. They see his mindless speeches as "talking like an ordinary person." In America we glorify intelluctual bankruptcy but covet the hussler type mentality. The right has people believing that the left wishes to take all their taxes and give money to the poor. The right believes that immigrants are taking their jobs. The right believes that they are God's party. However, I've never understood how a person could be ardently opposed to abortion but support the death penalty wholeheartedly. Then again, they also don't mind dropping bombs all over other nations indiscriminately.

Of course, most don't care.
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CulturalNomad Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. well said my friend
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Welcome to DU and by the way ~ I Care
America is a violent nation but doesn't have to be.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am! I don't get it. What's going on with those people?
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karabekian Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. its not bush its the lack of any other option
as evident by John Kerry and his inability to the traction he should have after 2 very bad months for bush. Note to DLC: you guys suck for not haveing a 20 point lead after the bad news that keeps coming for bush. Hello knock kncok mc fly
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. It's the DLC's fault people are stupid?
Why not place the blame where it truly belongs....an ignorant, TV programmed electorate and a corporate media that is clearly biased in giving Bush all the breaks they can and depriving Kerry of media oxygen.

Blaming the DLC for the structural reality of the US media is disingenuous at best.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The DLC is our answer to Emmanuel Goldstein.
Anything that goes wrong, anywhere in the world, is the fault of the DLC.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. An acceptable codeword to slam Democrats, methinks.
Of course, the DLC keeps close company with Clinton's penis, so perhaps their is fault by association...
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Young people are prone to be Nazis by their nature
The elderly slant toward democrats isn't just about social security. A lot of Right Wing trash sounds good if you a) think you are immortal, and b) have little experience in the world.

Even when young people are idealistically leftist they often show the same impatient fascination with dramatic solutions and ardor for their own emotional responses that typify the right.

After a while people have seen the same dumb stories played out again and again and start to realize that everything political is a process and that all violent one-time solutions to intractable problems are gibberish.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Let's hear it for impatient fascination with dramatic solutions!
That's what ended the U.S.-Vietnam war. Maybe it can work in the here and now, too.

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. What did Churchill say?
If when you are young you aren't liberal you have no heart and when old if you aren't conservative you have no brain. The wording may not be exact but the gist is right.
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. we live in a selfish society

it is the opposite of progressive.

Our society is built on concepts of "getting mine" and "keeping mine".

It is a tide which has swept through us. 9/11 shocked us into believing we might lose what's ours. Our leaders know the easy path to power is to convince us they can help us guard our way of life.

Conserve. Conserve your cultural advantage. Conserve your birthright. The progressives want to take it away.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think the polls are fudged
All the other "official" numbers we're getting are fudged, why not the polls? Either they target their responders outside the big cities and in southern and midwestern safe states for Bush, or they just shave points off one side and donate them to the other.

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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. you're ignoring a few things....

For one thing, conservative voters think they are 'defending' a way of life that seems, to them, coherent. They are very insecure about whether it is relevant in the grand scheme of things, though, and that's why they feel they must impose themselves or suffer being overlooked and ignored and treated as extraneous.

Secondly, in immigrant countries in which nativizing doesn't really take place for several generations, cultural time for immigrees and many of their descendents stops the moment they get on that boat or airplane or train that took them here. We're dealing with a lot of grotesque mental clutter among conservatives that is a legacy of medieval or even pagan Europe. (Just try reading a bunch of Pat Buchanan writings sometime and you'll see what I mean.)

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. I sometimes wonder where all the folks are at...
I never do check under the rocks though.

:shrug:
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. I was totally amazed and disgusted when I heard Anne Richards, former
TX governor, state on Larry King one night last week something to the effect that 'people aren't paying attention right now...those who have already decided on which candidate they prefer probably won't waiver, but the undecided voters WON'T START PAYING ATTENTION AND MAKE UP THEIR MINDS UNTIL 2 - 3 WEEKS PRIOR TO THE ELECTION'....

I couldn't decide if I wanted to puke or to cry.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Why does that bother you
Politics is not the most important thing in life to many or most people. I am not bothered if they wait till the bitter end to decide. I am bothered if they don't decide at all. And even then I can't blame them.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. i thought the youth were supposedly idealistic and peace loving.
WWE ring any bells? Who is the targeted audience for WWE?
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