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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:29 AM
Original message
Air Force Infantry?
Any military types out there ever hear of this? (I went to the Air Force site and couldn't find anything.) Anyway....my foster daughter is almost through with basic training down at Lackland, TX AFB....she called the other night and briefly told me that she thinks she might be assigned to a tech school for "Security Forces" in the "Air Force Infantry" which is a new classification or something. (She couldn't talk long as there were people waiting to use the phone so I didn't get a lot of details.)

Paranoia on my part? or is this part of the military's "re-naming" to mask some of the stuff they're doing?....in other words........do all roads lead to Iraq? I'm confused and concerned.

Any help appreciated and thanks in advance.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. I once had a friend in Air Force 'Security Services'
He spent most of his time either inside a missle silo underground, or guarding the silo above ground.

They may also use them to guard bases, but that's all the 'infantry' the Air Force has that I'm aware of.
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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thanks
She joined the military without any idea where the Air force would assign her or what her job would be.....which I felt was a huge mistake, given our present situation. I guess she'll be assigned where the need is greatest.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. AF doesn't have Infantry as it pertains to the Army
Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:34 AM by toiletbush
probably some jargon their throwing around pertaining to their Security Forces. Your right, in todays military almost all roads do
lead to Iraq. Don't be too distraught though, while I was in Iraq the AF had it made. They were set up in secure areas in A/C tents long before anyone else.
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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well, that helps......
Thanks......but it's getting her to those tents & back that has me worried!! I don't let her know all my concerns, though......wouldn't help her right now anyway!!

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sort of like Bush* Intelligence
:shrug:
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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm active duty Air Force
there is no such thing as Air Force infantry. If you'd like, I can provide a listing of all Air Force Specialty Codes.
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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thanks, that would be helpful!
At least I'll have a better knowledge base when she calls next. She does not want to be an MP, I know that. She has a BS in Psychology, but her recruiter told her that to enter that area of the Air Force, she needed at least a Masters. She was also not eligible for OCS, or whatever it's called in the Air Force, becaue her GPA was too low. (again, according to the recruiter.)

It's so hard to get information when I can only talk to her for a couple of minutes once a week.

Thanks!!

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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Oh shit...
She has a BS and she enlisted? Her recruiter lied to her. She was eligible for OTS and she needs to make a stink about it NOW. There is no minimum GPA to go to OTS per se; that's bunk. She needs to go see her IG and file a complaint against her recruiter. Now that she is IN the Air Force as an enlisted person, there are minimum GPAs to qualify for OTS (because many of the enlisted personnel go to school off-duty via Webster or Oklahoma and get "degrees," so it becomes very competitive), but BEFORE one enters basic there is no min GPA requirement.

Is she in basic right now?
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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Here is the link
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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Thanks, LagaLover!
I'm going to print it out so I have it ready when she calls. Yes, she's in Basic right now. As for what her recruiter said/promised/lied about.....I'm pretty sure she had to sign a waiver letting her recruiter off the hook for a lot of stuff. God, I wish she had consulted us before she took this step......but she is very headstrong and does not take advice easily. I have to tread lightly. I'm going to have to figure out a way to tell her she might have been rooked by her recruiter and see then if she wants to do something aabout it.

Thanks again!!
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Explain 'Lurp'
LRRP. Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol.

Please?

180
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Unfortunately, a now somewhat politically incorrect term.
In today's Army, they're Long Range Surveillance Units. And in the Marines, they were Force Recon (now just Recon, or Amphibious Recon). Same schtick:

LRRP's usually operated in four to eight man patrols. The LRRP units provided ground force commanders with intelligence on the tactical situation in their areas of responsibility (AOR). LRRPs units were also tasked with a number of direct action (DA) missions. Units attacked Viet Cong (VC) supply areas, tracked enemy units, directed air strikes, and harassed the VC. During the course of the war, all LRRP units in Vietnam were redesigned as rangers, and made separate companies of the 75 Infantry Regiment. With the US withdrawal from the conflict in Vietnam most of the LRRP/Ranger units were disbanded. By the end of the war, only two ranger units remained on active duty.

During the early eighties, the US Army once again found it self lacking a deep reconnaissance unit. After conducting a brief study, it was decided that the activation of a LRRP type unit would best meet the Army's needs. While debating the structure of the new units, senior Army officers felt that the name LRRP was to closely associated with the conflict in Vietnam. After a short debate the designation of Long Range Surveillance Units was chosen.

Unlike the Ranger units, that they are so commonly confused with, LRSUs perform passive intelligence gathering missions, and are not equipped for offensive combat operations. LRSUs take grate pains to avoid being detected. LRS units provide US Army divisions, and Corps with the ability to deploy reconnaissance patrols deep into the enemy's rear. Operating as six man teams, LRSU teams are trained extensively in long range communications, survival, covert observation, and various infiltration techniques. Many LRSU unit members are qualified in HALO/HAHO and combat diving skills. In certain situations they may also engage in stay behind operations. Units are capable of being infiltrated on foot, by aircraft, parachute, or small boats. Units may be deployed up to 150 miles behind enemy lines. They are expected to operate on there own, for up to thirty days. Team members are capable of providing bomb damage assessments; directing artillery fire; targeting emery antiaircraft systems for destruction; and locating enemy troop concentrations.


http://www.specwarnet.com/americas/lrsu.htm



And a very interesting movie about LRRP's, one of the best Nam movies, IMHO:

84 Charlie MoPic



The essential mission is to sneak quietly around, for days or weeks, gathering and relaying info to HQ. When things go right, no combat. Things sometimes don't go right, so they are heavily trained for that, too. That makes them useful for small raids, prisoner snatches, etc. Someone close to me deploys next month to do this high speed stuff. Hope things go right.


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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thank you.
I had read someplace that the Air Force had LRRPs, and that did not make sense. We had Marine Re-Cons in my class at Underwater Swimmers School (USN) years ago. Good bunch.

180
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, they aren't exactly LRRP's, but they do have AF commandos.
Sometimes, it amounts to close to the same thing, particularly for combat controllers that work with these teams.

SPECIAL TACTICS

Special Tactics is the U.S. Air Force's Special
Operations ground combat force that executes a
myriad of Special Operations missions to
enhance air operations deep in enemy territory.

Special Tactics operators integrate with other air
activities supporting the overall military
campaign. Special Tactics can conduct
personnel recovery missions, collect intelligence
and provide terminal guidance for attacks against
valuable enemy targets. Their work frees other
military assets to strike other priority targets.
Special Tactics operators can strike enemy
targets that are beyond the capabilities of
precision munitions.

Operating with Navy SEALs, Army Special
Forces and Rangers, Special Tactics personnel
are specially trained to seize enemy airfields and
recover distressed personnel in hostile territory.


http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=187



(Did they borrow this pic from the Marines? :) )


I believe these are the guys that recover comm satellites that survive reentry/abort, "any time, any place" (anybody's?), but that might be another 'special' AF bunch.





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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. OK
So the Air Force does have SEAL, Ranger type capability. That was my impression from what I had read. Good recruiting tool also, get the Rambo types.

180
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Airforce Ground Forces
The Airforce has long had ground forces who's primary role is to secure air fields and strategic installations. That they have changed the name from Security Policemen doesn't alter the fact they have had heavy infantry weapons and light armored vehicles for years.

As many don't actually do law enforcement I could see the desire to change the name.

SO nothing new, I know a cop here at UofM in Ann Arbor who used to guard Airforce One as an SP. They have also been called USAF Security Forces, and Air Police
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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. They are split about 60-40
between security (guarding aircraft, gates, and facilities) and law enforcement. As a matter of fact an AF "cop" was either designated as LE (Law Enforcement) or Security. Now, they are all called Security Forces, even those doing LE duties. To call them ANY type of infantry is an insult to the marines and soldiers who are real infantrymen.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The AF does have some special teams that do . . . special stuff.
;-)


But the security force is like you say, security and investigation etc.



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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The closest thing we have to ground infantry
are our combat controllers. They are some tough dudes.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. They catch that from who they hang with.
:)
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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Probably true!
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Damn Hippie Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. When I was active duty we called them ABGDs
Security Police worked inside or very near the fence. ABGDs worked outside the perimiter partularily to protect deployed ground based mobile cruise missile launchers in Europe. They were a small elite force that had to find a new mission when the GLCM Bases were closed in Germany and the UK.

"USAF efforts to create a viable Air base ground defense system have been a sporadic combination of episodic buildups and subsequent drawdowns of security force personnel and equipment. In essence, the Air Force has struggled with the concept of how to defend it's air bases for decades. The Air Force is hoping that they have finally found the answer with the activation of the 820th Security Forces Group, With their motto: "ready to go anywhere, any place, anytime," the the 820th SFG is a multidiscipline unit that offers a total force protection (FP) package, Depicted, as a revolutionary concept, the 820th SFG integrates all aspects of FP (i.e. air base ground defense, combating terrorism, physical security, operations security, personal protective services, resource protection, intelligence, counterintelligence, logistics, etc.) into a cohesive unit. With the capability to deploy within 24 hours of notification, the USAF believes it has finally established a viable solution to the age-old problem of protecting our deployed assets."
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WFF Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. My nephew is in Air Force Security
That's just the AF's name for MP.

Your foster daughter's lucky she's in the AF. They have it much nicer than the army or marines. When my nephew was stationed in Kuwait a few months ago, he staid in an air conditioned hotel. He also considers the AF security to be a cut above the other military branches, but that could just be friendly rivalry.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. No floats, either.
Flyboys.

:)

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WFF Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. My father was a flyboy
Bomber pilot in Italy during WWII. Rough place to spend the war.
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Ask Yosarian
Especially as depicted in Heller's Catch-22
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. My WW2 infantry sargeant father was transferred to the 8th Army Air Corps,
Edited on Tue May-25-04 06:39 PM by TacticalPeak
northern ETO, after he got trench foot in the Battle of the Bulge.




Just funning about the flyboys. :)
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. They don't have "Infantry" troops but...
They do have troops that are "attached" to Infantry Command units. By Command Units I mean on the Battalion level or above not on the company level.

When I was stationed in Germany I worked for the S-3 (Battalion Ops) and we routinly had guys from the near-by AFB go to the field with us.

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