Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Clinton says she could support Republican McCain as Kerry's vice president

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:42 AM
Original message
Clinton says she could support Republican McCain as Kerry's vice president
MAN am I sick of this McCain crap...

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Senator Hillary Clinton (news - web sites) said she could support John McCain, a leading Republican senator, as the Democrats' vice presidential candidate in November's presidential election.

"I'm a big admirer of John McCain's," Clinton -- the former US first lady and one of the most prominent Democrats in the US Congress -- told the "Fox News Sunday" program.


McCain, a decorated Navy war hero and prominent senator from Arizona, lost the Republican presidential nomination to President George W. Bush (news - web sites) in the 2000 race.


"I've spoken with Senator McCain and he assures me he's not interested, but you know, we'll see what happens."

More: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&u=/afp/2...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. in all due respect Hillary, STOP IT!!!!!
we don't need McCain on the ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jmeyers130 Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Actually
Having McCain on the ticket wouldn't be a bad idea. It would bring over many moderates and near-middle Republicans to the Kerry ticket, while having little or no affect on the Democratic voters. Dems already hate Shrub, and will vote for Kerry even if Lucifer were his running mate (cuz, ya know, even he wouldn't be as evil as Shrub/Cheney).

And as most of us know, McCain is about the only upstanding Republican in the Senate that we respect. Kerry/McCain I could see, though it is of course an odd combination, but not one i would go and condemn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. NO
forget it. Bad idea, we are not going to elect a republican to be a heatbeat away from the presidency. I will never vote for that ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. You're rather ELECT Shrubya??? n/m
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. don't bother with that bullshit boogey man argument
McCain is not much different than bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:12 AM
Original message
I would. Absolutely.
I would prefer four more years of bush to further diluting our party by splitting the ticket with a fucking Republican.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
30. Uh oh, someone finally said it
the world is collapsing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
89. Me too
If McCain is on the ticket I WILL vote for Bush. If it takes four more years of Bush in order for the dems to lead on progressive issues once again, so be it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. NO
The message in that is that a Democrat can only win if half the team is Republican. It's untrue and not helpful. We are Democrats, we are proud of our history, proud of our candidates, and we don't need to sacrifice half of our ticket to win the WH. It's ridiculous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. or maybe the message would be that AMERICANS need to pull TOGETHER...
.. and put bickering partisan issues behind them to make the country great again.

(just a counter-point).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. nonsense bub
I am not a democrat becaue I want to vote for republicans. Kerry is too far to the right as it is. NOPE, not gonna vote for Kerry/McCain
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. And become a homogenous...
...jingoist society?

Since their idea of "great" and our idea of "great" aren't merely different but mutually exclusive, there's no way to put the "bickering" behind us. Bickering is good. In the end, one side will prevail and the other will lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. That's not the message.
In fact, it's not even close to what Senator Clinton is saying. If she said, "He's the only serious choice," you would have some foundation for your claim. But she said nothing of the kind.
Senator McCain does not support president bush. He's not stupid. He does not want our country to go down the drain. He knows bush is a dangerous force. There is zero chance that he will become Kerry's choice for VP. But, he could play a significant role in an administration. And that is not an automatic cause for a knee-jerk reaction. He has many good qualities to offer on foreign affairs. His ideas on domestic issues are obviously less attractive. But after we win the November election, our country will need a reconciliation of sorts. Thanks, george bush and dick cheney, for all the pain you have caused. It's going to be difficult to heal the wounds. Working together as a nation is essential.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
85. MCain does not support Smirk??? He's F*ING campaigning for him!
Here's McCain was on on Hannity on May 17th and said (for the billionth time) he would NOT run as Kerry's VP, because he's suppoting Smirk! Here's Bob Somerby's recap, 'cause I'm too lazy to google for a Hannity transcript:

...the Arizonan also said this: Im supporting President Bush, and I amI am proud of President Bushs record on defense. As even the Times can probably see, that would be a very odd view coming from a Kerry VP. An earlier exchange had gone like this:

HANNITY: On defense issues, the most important issue of our time, your guy is George W. Bush, right?

MCCAIN: He is my guy. Im campaigning for him. Im supporting his re-election. I want him to be re-elected. I believe he has led this nation with moral clarity.


So what is the point of talking up McCain? It's just free publicity for a right wing Republican who is out stumping for Smirk right now. To constantly talk up McCain just makes it easier for McCain to persuade other people to vote for Smirk.

And McCain's rep as a moderate, a maverick who stands up to Smirk, a different kind of Republican, is the same BS that was peddled about Smirk in 2000 - - and that BS is a major reason why the far right is currently controlling all branches of Government.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. It would send some voters to Nader......including myself...
I guess that would fall into your little or no effect on Democratic voters category.

Probably wouldn't be that many of us, but I do not plan on voting for any repukes this November.

One really has to draw the line somewhere. If the Dems are stupid enough to put a repuke on the ticket, I'm outa there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
37. Interesting twisted logic.
Probably wouldn't be that many of us, but I do not plan on voting for any repukes this November.

Doesn't matter - you want to put one in the White House anyways. Oh, you'll get to brag to people that you resisted or whatever, but a lotta good that'll do you. Oh, and thanks from everyone victimized by Bush*.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karabekian Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
83. yeah right
I think principal is more important than winning if you win will do more to further destroy our party. If you think its bad now imagine when they see that they can win by embracing more republican platform planks. Its about the same logic as bush being more "compassionate" to win. Eventually we will have one party (as if we aren't pretty much already there)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. Nope, you're wrong
VP choice generally has no effect on votes. You can't go wrong. However, there are a few exceptions. In this case: Hitler, Satan, McCain, and maybe Gephart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. I don't bellieve that...
Edited on Tue May-25-04 12:11 PM by skypilot
...it would have little or not effect on the Democratic voters. I posted a poll here at DU last week asking about who would and wouldn't vote for Kerry if he picked McCain as a running mate. I know it's not scientific or anything but a lot more people than I expected said they wouldn't vote for him. More people said the would, of course, but the number who said they wouldn't was significant. I think it would be a bad and risky move on his part. And let's not forget that even now there are still people out there who plan to vote for Nader still. I think that Nader would pick up a lot more votes if Kerry picked McCain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. she was ASKED this, she didn't bring it up herself
of course she is going to support kerry no matter what. and she isn't going to say she wont support a ticket that mostly likely wont happen and offend someone she works in the senate with. if she had issues she would talk privately with kerry about it. but i'm sure she knows mccain is mostly likely not going to be on there. and kerry has already talked with hillary privately about the vp issue. and from what i hear hillary wants edwards for vp.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. This talk is actually quite helpful--it's a message to moderate GOP.
I think that moderate GOPers--and sane conservatives--need to know that Democrats can lead the nation to renewed prosperity and that there is a place for them. If I thought that McCain on the ticket would definitely be helpful to election, I would support it. But I'm unconvinced of this. Many progressives would have a hard time putting an anti-choice, anti-gay conservative so close to the levers of power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. I hope she's just having fun at the Republican's expense.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:59 AM by BurtWorm
I hope that is all this McCain talk is about, just funnin'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
67. Personally, I think she's playin' with FOX
seriously, something like this will make my McCain-lovin'/FOX watchin' colleague's head explode...

....think I'll run down the hall to his office and give him the "good news" that McCain is "Hillary approved!"

Let the games begin!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
narcjen Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. This confirms my suspicions.
there's no such thing as a left-wing party in America.

Only the right(Dems), and the very right(GOP).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm Not Sick of this McCain Crap, It's Friggin' Brilliant!
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:57 AM by Beetwasher
Look, McCain is NOT going to be the VP pick and I would't want him to be, but it's awesome that they are discussing the possibility. Moderate Repubs and swing voters hear this and associate a popular, relatively moderate Repub w/ Kerry. It's a BRILLIANT tactic!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I Agree
Either way it's brilliant. It gets swing voters thinking maybe Kerry is "too liberal" since McCain might work with him. It gets moderate, disaffected Republicans to think the same.

If he is the pick, Bush's lukewarm right of center support vanishes. If he's not, it's got people in the center thinking "Hmmm?? Maybe Kerry is ok."

It's win-win.
The Professor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
49. you meant Kerry is "NOT too liberal"
I believe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. You Are Correct! Thank You!
Big oops! I did, indeed, mean that it might get centrists and mod Repubs to dismiss the Kerry it "too liberal" tag, if McCain is interested, even if it doesn't come to pass.

Apparently, i said everything else clearly enough for you to understand what i meant, despite my stupid mistake.

Thanks again for helping to clarify.
The Professor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Some others might not be so quick on the uptake
just to clarify my intent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor Pedantic Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Or.......
This is setting us all up for Cheney stepping down and Bush picking McCain as his VP. The Democrats would be hard pressed to attack McCain then after the lovefest they've been having with him the last few months.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. No Way
Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:14 AM by Beetwasher
McCain is too smart to hitch his wagon to the miserable failure that is Chimp. No way.

And after some of McCain's harsh criticism lately, I doubt the admin. would take him. He's too much of a maverick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor Pedantic Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. Bush would take him.
Win at all costs. McCain puts up with the Chimp for four years and then is the presumptive nominee for President in 2008.

Stranger things have happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Nope
I just don't see it happening. I suppose anythings possible, but I would bet a tidy sum against it! ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
71. You forget that Bush ain't running this show
It's Cheney and his PNAC All Stars. If Cheney does step down, which I highly doubt, they would pick another neo-con. McCain with all of his talk of ethics and reform would not fit in well with this gang of criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. Oh Please! McCain is NOT a maverick. That is RW
propaganda. He is a neocon lackey all the way. There is no reason in the world we should entertain the notion of someone on the ticket who backs Bush 100%. Forget it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
87. Ummm
I disagree. McCain is most definitely the very definition of a Maverick. I don't agree with a lot of his positions, but he has no problems openly criticizing the admin. and walking a different path. His little tiff w/ Hastert recently is a good example of this.

Again, re-read my original post. I do not support choosing him and I can almost guarantee he won't be on the ticket, but the DISCUSSION of him as a choice is a brilliant tactic nonetheless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Those same people hear this...
...and (fairly rightly) conclude that 1) The Democrats aren't confident that they can win with people from their own ranks and 2) The Democrats don't stake much importance in social issues (since on social issues, McCain is clearly with the GOP). Really, where does McCain -- his voting record and his rhetoric -- intersect the Democratic values and positions? He's not a part of the Bush cabal. That's about it.

Would I vote for this ticket? Sure. I'd vote for Spongebob/Gump if they were running against *. So would anybody who loathes Bush* as much as I do. But how many of us are out there? In the end, this ticket would benefit Nader more than anybody, because it would give him a QED on his theory that Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. I Just Think That's Too Deep
You're giving people too much credit to be able to make that sort of deeper analysis. Sure, some might see it that way, but the majority will see it much simpler and take it on it's surface; Kerry associating himself w/ a popular moderate Repub and considering him as a running mate, that translates into Kerry=moderate bipartisan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. I disagree.
People maybe won't be making such analysis themselves -- but people aren't analyzing Kerry's voting record and concluding he's a "flip-flopper" either. Karl Rove is analyzing it for them (through his trolls like Rush and Sean). I'm not saying there is much credence in the "flip-flopper" charge -- at least not any more credence than could be said for virtually any politician, and certainly less than is the case with Bush* -- but in case McCain became Kerry's running mate, a half-credible argument could be made than the Democrats stand for nothing. Even if the people themselves don't make that association, Rush will make it for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. You Seem To Have Missed The First Sentence of My Post
McCain will NOT be the VP pick nor do I think he should be. It's the discussion of the possibility, the VERY PUBLIC discussion of it that is brilliant and that's all that needs to be done. Merely discuss and associate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
narcjen Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. You have a point.

it's a smart move. As long as they're not serious about it.

I'll vote for the lesser of two evils candidate, as long as he doesn't go with McCain or Gephardt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
75. Amen, Beetwasher!
Edited on Tue May-25-04 01:08 PM by Kurovski
Now, Howard Dean for vice president!

We could use the youth and Nader votes.

Dean would dilute the "boring " factor the media drones on about.

And it would also just dilute it. Because. Kerry. Is. A bit. Stentorian.

Public discussion of McCain as VP is a way of taking the "uniter, not a divider" mantle (or meme) from the miserable failure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #75
88. Correct! These Discussions Paint Kerry as the Actual Bipartisan Uniter
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's primary purpose seems to be .....
Driving Shrubya/Rove NUTS..

one other line from that article..

"He has gained a reputation as a tough-nosed, independent voice within Bush's party who is unafraid to criticize the president on high-profile issues"

by it continuing to swirl about, it's making Shrubya/Rove go bezerk trying to figure out HOW they would combat it (and the little incident last week where another HIGH 'PUG was dissin' McCain didn't help).

They're wasting resources to try to figure out how to combat it.. even it it's not a rat's ass chance in hell of happening... they're so paranoid they HAVE TO COVER THEIR BUTTS.

Makes them use resources they could be using for something else... oh well...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Mrs. Clinton is getting too close...
...to the other side and is in danger of being accused of 'sleeping with the enemy'. And yes...the GOP IS our enemy. Bush* is their man and they've done everything to cover for his crimes and malfeasance...and that includes McCain who helped push the Iraq invasion into action.

- If Kerry wants to lose...all he has to do is take the advice of political opportunists like Clinton and run a Republican VP. For the first time in my life...I'll stay home before voting for a Republican on the ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. I wouldn't just stay home
I'd actively work against it just like I plan on doing with the Montana gubenatorial "unity" ticket. Want me to vote Democrat? Then make a case for Democratic policies and values. DON'T cede the whole argument before it's even started by running Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdsmith Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. And what are the chances that McCain is playing this one, too?
Not that he is willing to accept the VP nomination, but that he is taking this occasion to put some fear into Bush and Rove. (Now why would McCain want to be mean to Karl?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Bingo.... n/m
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
26. I have never voted for a Republican and I never will.
If McCain is on the ticket I vote for Nader.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. You vote for Bush*.
Simple as that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Nip the Republican as VP bullshit in the bud and you won't have to worry
simple as that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. The Democrats can't afford to pander to a high-maintanence sliver...
...of voters who might decide to mutiny over some other superficial unimportant ineffectual point. It's not worth the time and it's not worth alienating more of the more reliable center voters. You are never sure you are going to keep them. If people are going to mutiny over something so stupid, they will continue to have the candidate do stupid things that will make them look stupid. All this does is move the party to the center again because it teaches them that the further left votes are not worth pursuing - they will scream and hiss and piss themselves over something unsubstantial that doesn't diminish their cause anyways. Why walk on eggs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. the "more reliable center voters???!!!"
Like the "Reagan Democrats?" Boy, they've sure been in the trenches for the Democratic Party haven't they? The reliable votes for the Democratic Party have historically been unions and minorities. When the party starts ceding issues that are important to these constituencies, they are in trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'm talking about people whose issues are generally understood...
...rather than these people who want some leader to do the work of changing the culture for them and are willing to mess up the country over it. The Naderites are this sliver I'm talking about. Rather than going out and making their issues generally understood so that the issues can't be ignored by the candidates, they like to play brat-ass and threaten candidates with their sliver of the population. That will move the Democratic Party to try to get votes in the center which by your very participation by in this thread by complaining you are admitting they are trying to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I don't see how your answer tells me that center voters are reliable
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Because they don't throw fits over stupid little things.
Like whether or not someone's doing this thing. That's not even a real issue, it's just a campaign strategy! It'll vaporize at the beginning of November if not before then! And you want to put Bush* in the White House over it! See what I mean about unreliable? Who would have thought that this was an issue worth electing Bush* over? If it wasn't this, what would it be next? John Kerry wore a blue suit to make himself look more "conservative"? What?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Utterly ridiculous!
Comparing objections to putting a Republican on the ticket with someone wearing a blue suit. Completely and utterly ridiculous!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. They're not gonna put a Republican on the ticket!
You should know that by now! The one guy they keep talking about keeps refusing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Would you mind actually addressing something I say rather than
changing the subject? How is comparing objections to talk about putting a Republican on a Democratic ticket comparable to speculation about what color suit someone wears? You say that people "spazz" out about insignificant things... to someone who feels strongly enough about issues to identify with one party or the other, talk of running someone on YOUR ticket from the other side is not insignificant. That's a pretty fucking VERY significant issue. And I take this VERY seriously. The Democrats here in Montana have done this very thing with their gubenatorial ticket and the fact that this continues to surface as talk from high-level Democratic Party officials causes me to think that it's a little more than just fucking with Republican heads.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I was being sarcastic.
I also phrased it as a question.

Now have the Democrats there won a gubenatorial race there in a long time anyways?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Not since the early nineties
And they had a great chance this year because the outgoing Republican governor is LOATHED and not running again and the Democratic candidate had a lot of name-recognition from previous statewide runs. However, he's decided that this tactic is the way to go, thus losing the vote of myself and many others who think that bipartisanship and moderation are worthy goals but that we need to start from some sort of core ideals and work to the center.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. You haven't said anything about this Republican's core ideals.
In 1998 in our gubenatorial race in Illinois, we had a Republican running who was actually more liberal on certain issues than the Democratic candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. And he was a crook!!!
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
79. This thread isn't about 'Naderites'
It's about the stupidity of running a split ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. It /was/ about that.
Until some people started bringing his name up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. And yes, the Reagan Democrats are seen as more winnable...
...than people who go around saying there is no difference between Kerry and Bush*. Where do you start with people who say that? Or who think it's better to get almost none of what you want than some of it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. you said "reliable" not "winnable"
reliable means that someone's going to vote for you basically no matter what. Reagan Democrats by their very moniker are TOTALLY unreliable.
We're not talking about pissing off a few fringe voters here. We're talking about pissing off very LARGE swaths of traditionally rock-solid Democrats in favor of flighty swing voters who have a favorable view of McCain because the TV talking heads have christened him a moderate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. That too.
If you can win one over, you don't have to worry as much about them spazzing out about some little thing. And I would disagree about the large swaths of Democrats. You don't really even hear that many people complaining about it here, and I'm pretty sure there are a lot more whiners here than in the general population.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Speaking only from my personal perspective
My moderate swing-voter brother and sister-in-law are very disillusioned with Bush but they don't like Kerry and they think that running with a Republican on the ticket is stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
77. The VP slot is a 'superficial unimportant ineffectual point'
Edited on Tue May-25-04 02:30 PM by bowens43
Wow.

What the Democrats can't afford is having a f*cking republican on the ticket. How about we run TWO republicans instead? That would show'em we are bipartisan!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #77
94. You just don't get it.
We. are. not. going. to. have. a. Republican. on. our. ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
76. No, I would not vote for bush.
I would vote for Nader . Simple as that But I would rather see another 4 years of bush then see a republican on a democratic presidential ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
95. Then you admit you vote for Bush*.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 04:09 PM by LoZoccolo
The point's moot anyways, but...

But I would rather see another 4 years of bush then see a republican on a democratic presidential ticket.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreeHuggingLiberal Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
28. This is crazy...
Let's imagine eight years from now if Kerry wins both terms...If he didn't drop McCain after the first term...we set up the Republicans for another win. It doesn't make sense. We have plenty of great democrats. Why choose McCain?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. She's just fucking with the heads of Republicans. It's kind of funny when
you think about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. I dont think her words say quite what the article claims.
But, that's not unusual.

The thing I like is that the media is making Dems look like great uniters. That's fine by me. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
35. You people don't understand!
I keep having to say this is genius. McCain's never gonna do it, but it helps us tear down that fake "liberals-are-unpatriotic" or "liberals-are-so-weird" kind-of image that we get that we don't deserve.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. We understand quite well
we are willing to let the conservatives define Democrats and liberals as unpatriotic and fringe-left. Rather than fight that definition, we accept and then attach ourselves to moderate Republican "beards" so as not to appear quite so scary. Sorry, that's just disgustingly weak and pathetic and I won't be a part of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Don't sit around waiting for a candidate to do your job.
I disagree with you about what's going on here, but for sake of discussion let's assume it's true. I can't begin to tell you how unwise it is to try and undertake something like this when it's so important that Bush* get out. You want a stab at superficial change rather than real change. This sort of cultural change you speak of - it's not something a single leader can do for you and they can't do it in six months.

Actually, this is fighting it. I still see John Kerry as a liberal. What this does is paint Bush* as so far right that moderates Republicans and Democrats have more in common with each other than moderate Republicans and conservative Republicans do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. One problem in Iraq
is that the different factions are so bitter that they have great difficulty in recognizing that the human beings in the other factions are their brothers and sisters, and that they will have to work together to survive. We obviously are moving in that direction in the United States. McCain is not being seriously considered for VP. He could play a role in a Kerry Administration, but not on domestic issues. There are quite a few republicans in the country. Some may be your neighbors and relatives. They are not all evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. LoZoccolo - exactly n/m
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. Exactly so!!
Great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
48. Well of course she does
what, you really think any of that lot have principles? Wakey wakey my friend - the establishment loves itself.

In the words of Nye Bevin, founder of Britain's National Health Service:

"No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party... So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."

The only attitude to the right that has ever been worth having, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
60. I'm shocked
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
66. Relax, everybody!
Please don't read things into this that aren't there.

First of all, McCain isn't going to run on a Democratic ticket. He's cranky and independent and friendly with Kerry, but he's not about to run for vice president on a Kerry-McCain ticket.

Secondly, this is just a little "Senator McCain, we appreciate your independence" game. We like him because he questions Shrub and the various foolish actions practiced by Shrub & Co., not because we agree with McCain.

Thirdly, of course HRC is going to be gracious to a fellow senator. That's what she does.

Fourth, it's clear that the Democrats are interested in crossover appeal. It's not a bad strategy to adopt. You want to get independents and moderate Republicans to vote for Kerry. And for those of you who say that's selling out, remember that you need some sort of ally to get anything passed in this country.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. exactly
You've read it right. It ain't gonna happen people, so calm down. She's playing the game well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
78. I say keep up the McCain talk...it helps us
There is no way McCain is going to be on the ticket (Though I would support it if he was), and the constant talk about it only highlights the divisions among Republicans. And...McCain's refusal to criticize Kerry publicly will help moderates and moderate-conservatives see that Kerry is not the wild-eyed Liberal the evil-doers are trying to portray him as!!!

So I say...keep it up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. It makes us look like fools and losers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. With McCain on the ticket
if Kerry wins that makes a Republican v.p. If something happens to Kerry while in office we will once again have a Republican president. Is that what we want?????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. And won't you feel proud when McCain wins in 2008
When he cashes in on all the good will you've built up for him among Democrats? Won't you feel grateful that the coalition of the far right cultural conservatives and big business that drives the Republican party will be setting the national agenda for another four to eight years? Or maybe twelve or sixteen, if his VP is elected after him.

Go to project vote smart and look up McCain's voting record. Look at his ranking from various interest groups. He gets in the high 80s to the 100th percentile from all the far right action groups. He gets 20 to 0 from all the progressive groups. Supporting McCain, even in the short term, is extremely shortsighted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karabekian Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
81. if true hes toast
I know that I am not alone in my willingness to switch my vote to nader again if he chooses a republican runing mate. Hell hes almost already there and with mccain? ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
84. The DLC's message these days seems to be
"Dems aren't good enough to run the country; trust the GOP"! :puke:

If we don't have ANY Dems we're confident enough in to name the VP, we may as well throw in the towel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
90. No kiddin'? DLC meets RNC. Birds of a feather.
One big, happy family, under one big one party tent. We don't need no steenkin' principles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:38 PM
Original message
It's NEVER fucking going to happen. Stop fucking talking about a fucking
Republican, right-wing ASSHOLE being on the Democratic ticket! His ideology, agenda and social philosophy is republican...only a fucking moderate who swings both ways and has fucking voted for a republican before could even consider it.

Fucking moderates get the fuck outta here with this fucking McCain shit'

Sorry, It ain't NEVER going to happen!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
96. "Fucking" moderates?
:hi: :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
91. I don't understand why this crap keeps coming up with McCain.
If that happens, us Dems will make it seem as if no Democrat isn't able to fill the shoes of vice presidency. This stinks! If Kerry wants to be bi-partisan with the repukes, then include McCain in his sub-cabinet or something, NOT THE VICE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
93. She also supports the invasion of Iraq
She's lost me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jul 25th 2014, 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC