Berg beheading: No way, say medical experts | Asia Times

[patriotvoice]

American businessman Nicholas Berg's body was found on May 8 near a Baghdad overpass; a video of his supposed decapitation death by knife appeared on an alleged al-Qaeda-linked website (www.al-ansar.biz) on May 11. But according to what both a leading surgical authority and a noted forensic death expert separately told Asia Times Online, the video depicting the decapitation appears to have been staged.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FE22Ak03.html

[opihimoimoi]

1. Whatever: The fact remains he was delivered to the USA with his head

severed. nuff said

[hedda_foil]

7. Nobody's disputing that his head was severed from his body.

The dispute is over whether they killed him before beheading him. IOW, whether he was dead or alive at the time of the beheading.

[Columbia]

8. Does it make a difference?

[shanti]

14. yes it does make a difference

that pesky propaganda issue, you see...

[leftofthedial]

18. also, the soundtrack

makes it sound like he was alive.

If that was faked, then every word on it is called into question.

[Columbia]

22. Huh?

He was alive, now he's dead. What's your point?

[leftofthedial]

33. no one disputes that he is dead

the soundtrack says "I'm Zarqawi." Is that true?

The soundtrack says this is retribution for the atrocities commited by Americans. Is that true?

The soundtrack (according to CIA translation) says we are al Qaeda. Is that true?

The soundtrack includes screaming and gurgling noises intended to sound like Nick Berg's death. That is clearly NOT true. How can the rest of the soundtrack be what it purports to be if the death of Berg, the key event on the tape, is faked?

[Columbia]

34. Even if the whole thing was faked, he's still dead

Anyone could have faked it. Al-Qaeda, CIA, KGB, etc. Does it really make a difference if it was faked or not? Bottom line, the guy is dead and someone killed him.

[leftofthedial]

37. you think there is no difference

whether "al Qaeda" or the US miitary killed him?

Okay.

[Columbia]

38. No, you misread my post

I said what difference does it make even if it was faked. Anyone could have still done it. At the end of the day, the guy is still dead.

You spend all your time concocting these conspiracy theories about a faked video while Bush and his gang are spending their time raising money and laughing their asses off at you.

[stickdog]

39. And if you spend all your time propping up murderous BushCo propaganda?

Then what?

[Columbia]

41. Uhh ok..

Hey do whatever you want man. Just trying to help you out, but if you enjoy the conspiracy theories, knock yourself out.

[leftofthedial]

42. no, I spend all my time wondering why you don't think

it makes a difference.

(and working toward the day when the bushgang are "laughing" all the way to the war crimes tribunal.)

[Djinn]

43. No need to look into 9/11 then

those are people are just dead - end of story - forgive me but it's a bit of an ignorant stance to take

BTW - it's been erported everywhere that this video was originally shown on www.al-ansar.biz - I looked that day and the website was down - no-one I know got it off that site, one person I've spoken to has claimed it was never on that site - did anyone here actually get onto www.al-ansar.biz at all?

[cedarteeth]

2. burg beheading faked?

i don't know how much it matters, the message is clear.

[kalian]

5. Yeah? And what is that "message"?

:shrug:

[cedarteeth]

12. message?

hmm, happy trails for all? no wait, they filmed someone being killed...

[stickdog]

40. Yes. Whom was the message from? (nt)

[Spinzonner]

3. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned that

there's so many medical experts out there with experience with beheadings.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

9. Hahahaha, excellent point!

:toast:

It's almost like getting caught saying "I smell pot" when you're with your parents.

[Bake]

20. Yeah! HAHA! How do you KNOW what pot smells like???

OOPS!! Spinnzoner, Spin-zone, spinoza, whatever ...

Bake

[Cheswick2.0]

13. any moron that ever took an anatomy class would say the same thing

as these doctors.

[Spinzonner]

15. I'm not aware that they remove heads from LIVE bodies

in anatomy classes these days.

[Vickers]

17. lmao, dude, yer killing me!

Figuratively!

:P

[patriotvoice]

19. They don't...

Emergency medical technicians (and other first responders) have the most offhand knowledge of immediate terminal injuries.

For example, look at photos 1 and 3 on Snopes (graphic):
http://www.snopes.com/photos/decapitate.asp

Lots of blood.

[yardwork]

32. Exactly!

When an artery is cut, the blood sprays out at terrific volume, because the heart continues to pump. The carotid artery in the neck is forced upward to the brain at tremendous pressure - cutting this with a hand saw would take some time, and the pumping of the heart would spray blood all over everybody in the frame.

Therefore, it is easy to conclude that the person shown in the video was not alive when his head was cut off. However, the video and audio are clearly staged to make the viewer think that he was beheaded while alive.

If that part is fake, what else is fake?

Add to that the other odd aspects of the video (white chair and yellow walls exactly like the photos of the Iraqi prison, etc.), plus Mr. Berg's odd history, and the whole thing deserves a careful look. The final odd aspect: the video has disappeared from the web, and American press have stopped talking about it. Isn't that odd? Wouldn't we normally expect such a horrific video to be discussed and analyzed frame-by-frame?

Where'd it go? How come nobody is talking about it?

Seems odd to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

35. like I said...any moron who ever took an anatomy class

..... If you don't get it I am very sorry, but I'll tutor you for a price. Short of that I am affraid you're going to have to try and think harder.

[Djinn]

44. you don't actually need to

to know that the carotid artery SPRAYS blood.

You know they don't actually induce heart attacks in living patients either, or give them diseases but strangely enough they have a grasp of what happens in the body in such circumstances....it must be nice to have such a simple view of life - course it'd make walking and breathing at the same time kinda tricky

[KoKo]

10. What if they found him dead already, and decided to make an "incident"

by taking the dead body, dressing up in "Halloween Terrorist Costumes" and then sawed it off just to stage it? We don't know who these folks are but those here who saw the video say there wasn't the kind of blood you would see when you open an artery by sawing into a live victim.

It's hard to know what the truth of this is, but it's hard also to accept the "truth" they are trying to tell us. :shrug:

He was already dead and "used" for a purpose is what I think, but who knows...

[Old and In the Way]

11. Do you think they staged the pre-death sequence, too?

[bullimiami]

16. I think "they" were americans.

And I think they tortured him to death (oops) and then made a little propaganda film.

[rhite5]

21. I think you are right on both counts.

How convenient. Just when they needed something spectacular to out-shock the world-wide shock over the prisoner treatment.

[Q]

23. Some (again) are missing the point...

...and that is: Berg may have been subjected to an 'interrogation' that killed him. The beheading MAY HAVE been a way to cover it up and blame it on 'terrorists'.

[KalicoKitty]

24. This is from another forum

The Nick Berg conspiracy


You all remember the infamous "Tourist of Death" right?

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/627708f8/6bb6a1e6

Here is a picture of Nick Berg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NickBergAP.jpg

The resemblance is uncanny! How much deeper does this conspiracy go? The 911 connection is even more evident. Was or is Nick a CIA operative? Was he placed on top of the towers on 911, possibly laser directing the remote controlled planes and then telaported off to a safe location at the critical moment? IS NICK BERG THE MASTERMIND BEHIND ALL OF THIS?I WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!

It is my belief that the Tourist of Death thing was debunked and dismissed as a hoax only to quell suspicions. They knew they would be using the talented Mr.Berg in future PsycOps again.

What do you all think?


http://www.mlive.com/forums/newstalk/index.ssf?artid=418817

[harshthemellow]

25. This getting as ludicrous as the Vince Foster death

With all the foreign news outlets playing up the hate America cards I don't expect any complete truth from their media. Maybe if we have cause to save the world again like we did in WWII they will snap out of it but for now we are doomed to read all the tinfoil overseas news.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

26. Nah, I'm sure you can get all the news you need from NewsMax, Worldnet

Daily, Washington Times and Fox. Those ARE your usual news sources aren't they?

[harshthemellow]

27. Not likely

Why would you make such an inflammatory remark like that? If there is something in the body of my post that you would like to address then please do but save the personal attacks for someone that deserves it please.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

29. Just drawing a few conclusions from reading other posts of yours.

I take it we can put you down for one GWB vote this fall? Or maybe 20 if you are in the right Diebold district?


A "harshthemellow" special below:

harshthemellow (18 posts) Sat May-22-04 03:14 AM
Response to Original message

4. Remind them it's ABB or bust


The hatred that most Democrats have of bush must be resolved by electing any Democrat rather than let him server another term.

[harshthemellow]

30. Incorrect conclusion

If you read my post as anything other than anti-repub then it's you that has an interpretation issue. Again, if you have an issue or problem understanding me then just ask. You don't need to make incorrect accusations or assumptions about me.

[patriotvoice]

31. There is nothing "ludicrous" about death.

Whether Mr. Foster committed suicide or was murdered, and whether Mr. Berg's death was staged or not, is certainly not "ludicrous: laughable or hilarious because of obvious absurdity or incongruity."

Perhaps there is more to each of story than meets the eye. Perhaps not. Odds are good, however, that we will never know the truth; in time, maybe we can settle on a few plausible scenarios.

Foreign news agencies, like our own, have a vested interest in pandering to the perceptions of their population and to their leaders. Most foreign countries are disaligned with the United States precisely because our leaders have chosen an aggressively unilateral (read "non-diplomatic") approach to foreign affairs.

The "hate America card" is a result of arrogance and, frankly, "ludicrious" policy management at the highest level of the U.S. government.

While on the subject, don't you think it's a bit arrogant to assert we "saved the world in WWII?" Fact check: we sustained relatively light casualties (http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/BACK/Casualties.htm) and a vast array of our technology and information/counter-intelligence came from German defectors.

It's more like we were the relief pitcher that struck out the last batter than the team that held strong the entire game. So, let's not let our head swell.


On edit:
For more information on Vince Foster murder/suicide, see:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html

[Straight Shooter]

28. I consider Asia Times to be a fairly reliable source

AFAIC, this article is not inflammatory, it seems fairly balanced and presents arguments not just for the beheading itself being faked, but for the background behind Berg's kidnapping. It is a logical article, and persuasive. Remember that the truth always appears overseas before it's recognized in the U.S., if at all.

Voice analysis, please, comparing Berg's speaking voice to the "screams," is anyone going to do that?

[peacetalksforall]

36. I read a few threads today...it is weird the way this subject heading

brought out many low number posters - where were they in posting to other threads today or this evening?

Is it my imagination or not, but does it appear to others that they're are always a number of naysayers and debunkers who try to kill a thread before it takes off?