Tired of the "President" bashing double-standard

[The Spirit of JFK]

<cranky non-caffeinated rant>

This whole Pelosi discussion got me thinking...

Damn, I am sick sick sick of the right wing complaining that criticizing the president (and/or the administration in general) is un-patriotic. These are the same morans who were harping on EVERY move Clinton made....espcially the non-policy ones. They dug up everything they could about his private life in order to undermine his policies. And then they aired it, investigated it, and then tried to use it for political gains. They had NO problems criticizing the president then. And you know what, neither did "we". I was one of the first to call Clinton an idiot for the whole Lewinsky deal (among other reasons). But you know what? The whole Lewinsky "scandal" (as did most of the others) had nothing...NOTHING I tell you...to do with policy, national security, public fraud, or anything else in that vein. Okay...so there was the "lying to congress" thing, but it was about a hummer for crying out loud. Even the Pope was laughing at us about investigating that.

So now that they have one of their own in the White House it's suddenly un-patriotic to say anything negative about the President except, perhaps, the color of his tie...and even then, only THEY can do it. To them, criticizing the President "undermines our message as a country in trying times", "puts our soldiers at greater risk"....and I'm sure there is something about protecting the children, too. It's not only bulls**t, but it's also desperate measures by desperate people. If these people can't understand that, for starters, that by having our "democracy" function normally even in "trying" times tells the terrorists that they accomplished nothing and that it's possible to support the troops AND criticize the President at the same time, then I don't know what to tell you. But I think it's mostly just blind loyalty to anyone with a (R) next to their name, which is ignorant and dangerous.

If Clinton was in office now (or any Democrat, really), the right wing would be frothing at the mouth over ANY of the things they are telling us to shut up about....fabricated evidence for going to war, the handling of the war, Valerie Plame, Enron, the 911 intelligence, the economy, budget trickery, etc. We know it and THEY know it. And many of us would be, too. This ain't a hummer in the Oval Office...THIS is stuff impeachment is made of...not to mention prison time. So why aren't they frothing at the mouth? Aren't standards for one president good for another? And if they are so concerned about the soldiers protection (and ours), why aren't they calling their Congressmen and Senators to find out why there isn't' a more official independent commission to investigate the 911 intelligence failures and cover ups, or be more outraged at the outing of an undercover operative? No, really..I want to know. I'm not talking about the neo-cons or the religious right....as they have their own agendas. I want to know about the so called moderate Republicans. Perhaps I am just being a little too idealist here (and/or naive) but it just baffles me.

</cranky non-caffeinated rant>

[CrispyQ]

1. "Do as I say, not as I do."

They are pathetic and don't even know it.

[NewJeffCT]

2. If Clinton (or Gore) was in office now...

It would be a miracle - if 9/11 had happened on their watch (and I have serious doubts about that!), the Fright Wing would have let the nation mourn the rest of the week (9/11/01 was a Tuesday) and then started impeachment hearings on Monday 9/17/01... and, anybody who didn't vote to impeach Gore would have been calling unpatriotic & unAmerican.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Sad but true. And the Dems need to call them on it.

[Ironpost]

4. Hague

I believe that we will see the whole bunch of them before the world court. I also believe the whole world will demand it, providing there is a world left. These guys will go to whatever ends to try to remain in power. Even after the election we will have to forcefully remove their sorry asses.

[July]

12. Either that, or things are going to get much worse.

I hope your belief turns out to be the correct one.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. It's all good

Just think of how much fun it's going to be when Kerry is President. I'm going to fire every single one of those lines right back at them for the SOLE purpose of showing them how fucking retarded they are!

[KharmaTrain]

6. POI...Clinton NEVER Lied To Congress

There's another of those wingnut lies that got spun into "fact".

Clinton pleaded guilty (actually no contest) to lying in the DISCOVERY of the Jones Case. Clinton's lies...arguably...was not germaine to the case as Susan Weber Wright tossed it out shortly thereafter. It was only after pressure from Right Wing judges on a higher bench (orchestrated by Gingrich, DeLay & Co.) who were going to review the case and would have re-opened the whole tawdry mess had Clinton not finally said "Enough" and copped the "guilty" plea.

He NEVER lied to Congress, and legally he didn't lie in the Jones discovery either, but stepped into a trap.

Your main point remains very strong and I couldn't agree more. Clinton's "lies" were of a personal nature that had no bearing on his job or job performance. Those wingnuts now justify torture and genocide, abet in the looting of this nation's treasure and have perverted every issue they touch have no pot to piss in when you compare the "lies" of Clinton to the REAL, DEADLY lies of the Bush cabal.

<a semi-caffinated rant...I feel better now>

[The Spirit of JFK]

7. hence the quotes

Yes, I hate to continue the lie as fact even in sarcasm... I shouldn't have even used the term. I have rapped my knuckles with a copy of "Lies and the Lying Liars..." to atone.

I wonder if a "bi-partisan" forum.....for honest intelligent debates would be possible at DU...not that we don't already have some here, but most of us more or less share the same ideology. Just a thought....probably opens up way to big a can of worms.

[kevinhnc1]

8. Everyone needs to get letters to the editor, and soon

Making this freak of a president responsible for the destructive effects of his idiocy is the furthest from unpatriotic that there is. It is in fact the most patriotic thing we can do.

The rest of America needs to get this into their heads.

[KharmaTrain]

9. I'm With You On That...

Look carefully and you'll find some very interesting, objective strings or commentary here. I'd suggest spending a day or two strictly in the LBN or Editorial forum; away from GD and the Lounge.

Ann Richards really hit it last night when she said there are a lot of Democrats who are impatient right now...feel the possible and are frustrated November isn't May. Lately I see a lot of that anxiety here...some take it as new people or trolls or Freepers or whatever, but it's just the change in the political dynamic and more and more people getting interested and involved...not a bad thing at all.

If you read some of my posts, you'll see I'm very in favor of open discussions. I expect to see a wide range of opinions...some of closed-minds or thin skins...but I've felt you can always find someone here to discuss issues with of substance. Hang in there.

[The Spirit of JFK]

10. Good points

While the discussion in GD may have prompted me to rant, it has been a long time coming and from various other sources as well. But your point is very well taken.

I AM impatient, but mostly frustrated, disappointed, and concerned at the fact that our country as a whole has seemingly shunned bi-partisan discussion and ideas, openness (yeah, not a great word, but trasparency was probably too strong a word), and meaningful thought and propriety in policy and actions. And, being cranly this morning aside, this tends to make me a little reactionary at times.

Ok...deep breath...now I will take your advice.

[calimary]

11. You bring up a good strategic point about where to start with moderates.

No, I'm not going to go so far as to invite a "bi-partisan" forum. You can bet money that it would swifty degenerate into a free-for-all once the Tom DeLay wannabes got going (and they'd come out of the woodwork in droves - look at the many alert buttons we have to click on, just as is!

But a poster elsewhere on DU who mentioned "divide and conquer" - well, THAT is another story. You watch 'em for awhile, and soon enough you can tell who's a republican versus a republi-CON. I'm thinking Chuck Hagel, Olympia Snow, Lincoln Chafee, there's a few of them. POSSIBLY now also South Carolina's Lindsey Graham. I read something recently that named four GOP senators who were uncharacteristically concerned about getting to the bottom of Torturegate - he was one, along with Richard Lugar of Indiana, and incredibly, Pat "the sycophant" Roberts of Kansas, Virginia's John Warner (!) and - of all people, ORRIN holier-than-thou HATCH of Utah! And I NEVER thought I'd see the day when he'd be stepping up to the plate against ANYTHING this cabal did. But, there you have it.

So what these are, really, are larger chinks in the armor. They're a finger-hold where we can wedge in the tip of a very small chisel, and start grinding. You find the openings where you can get 'em, and get to work. It was REPUBLICANS who went to Nixon and finally got him to give up the ghost about Watergate, which eventually got his ass out of there. It's probably gonna have to be the same thing here. THESE are the folks you call. Few of us have time to search out each republi-CON and look in depth at their voting record. Just go with what you've got so far.

You call 'em up. Get their staffers. Attempt to remain civil and as non-combative as possible, but make your point. I've done so, successfully, posing as just another concerned American (which, IN FACT, I TRULY AM - no subterfuge here, when you boil it down). You voice your concern about where this headlong foolhardiness - that starts, YES, at the top - where the tone for all of this is set. You voice your concern not in a "you guys are such jerks" mode but in a "good heavens, this is becoming truly dreadful for all of us" way.

I have found, when approaching some of the slightly more reasonable ones, that this works rather nicely. You get your message through in a way in which they HAVE TO at least acknowledge it. Some of them, in Hagel's office in particular, I've noticed this, are seriously wavering. I could tell with a couple of people I spoke to that there was reluctant agreement with everything I said.

What else is on our side that helps this along: the fact that we are very close to reaching the critical mass point, if indeed we haven't already arrived there. The "enough is enough" ethic is starting to make itself felt with sirens and air horns. I mean, we just have had a cascade of crap from these people ever since they "took" office, all of which was ignored or swept under the rug or excused under the simpering "but we have to support Our President/you're a traitor-unpatriotic-Saddam lover-Osama sympathizer, with-us-or-against-us" baloney, but that's just been kicked to hell by what's happened lately. The prisoner torture scandal compounded by the Berg beheading has just been too much. PLUS, it began with photos NOT of the torture but of all those American coffins coming home - that the White House and Pentagon tried so hard to hide. ALL OF THAT, ALL OF IT, just got wrapped up into the same big bad package and the smell it emitted, collectively, has just become too much. The whole thing is now viewed as rather sordid and awful and nothing we as Americans are proud to have our name attached to, and it's tipped everything over. However you try to isolate or dissect ANY aspect of this, you still lose. The whole horrendous business over there is just all lumped together and looks and smells like shit. It's shit that's gotten smeared all over us as Americans, because NONE OF IT had to happen. NONE. And that is becoming more glaringly obvious by the day, as our "objectives" become visibly more impossible. And the people who've tried to dismiss the torture part as mere frat hazings look as ridiculous as the storms of derision currently raining down on their heads prove them to be.

It's just all a mess. Consider, merely, how many times you've heard that word, "mess," or that phrase "what a mess," or "made a big mess," has been used to sum this up. And consider where it's now coming from. Like practically EVERYBODY around you, more people in the media, and these occasional republicans who are realizing it's not a good thing for them to be tied to this. Specially since every reference to the word "mess," or "made a mess" comes surgically attached to the name "bush."

The times ARE changing. These are just the first ones to realize it and to try to scramble out away from it. There will be more. But meantime, THEY are a good place to start. Pick your waverer, or your slowly awakening fighter moving toward the edge of the enemy camp, and get to work. Gently but firmly. Wedge them away. Sweetly and softly help them wipe the sleep from their eyes. Offer them support and assistance. Then THEY will do the rest.