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Analysis: A benevolent dictator for Iraq? - upi

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 07:42 AM
Original message
Analysis: A benevolent dictator for Iraq? - upi
Edited on Wed May-19-04 07:50 AM by NNN0LHI
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040518-095725-8299r

BEIRUT, Lebanon, May 18 (UPI) -- At a time when President George W. Bush and his administration are trying hard to promote democracy in the Middle East, a key U.S. ally is proposing benevolent dictatorship instead.

King Abdullah II of Jordan, who only recently returned from a visit to the United States where he met with Bush, said Monday that a possible solution out of the Iraqi morass would be to install a strong military leader. Such a leader, said the king, could instill law and order in the chaos that is Iraq today.

"I would say that the profile would be somebody from inside, somebody who's very strong, has some sort of popular feeling," said the Hashemite monarch, who was quoted in the International Herald Tribune.

"I would probably imagine -- again this is off the top of my head -- someone with a military background who has the experience of being a tough guy who could hold Iraq together for the next year," said the king.

more...I think this unelected thug Abdullah considers himself a "benevolent" dictator too. The bastard.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Didn't we already try that once?
So, in a few years we can claim the dictator is not so benevolent & invade again?

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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. The new Fox TV Show - "Pick Iraq's New Dictator"
Meet Murad....he's a Shia muslim cleric with large group of followers, and controls two cities...his speciality is marrying the daughters of local clerics and landholders in order to secure his position..

but wait...meet Abdullah...born in Iraq, he has spent the last twenty years in exile from Saddam...educated at Cambridge he turned his eye to politics at an early age...now he is currently using the great wealth amassed in the import/export business to fund a private army he calls the Abbies...

and then there is Mr. Chalabi...no need to even give a bio...
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German-Lefty Donating Member (568 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Flash Cartoon with exactly that idea
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/iridol.html

Markfiore has got lots of great stuff.
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. the first line is total bullshit

bushco is not trying to promote democracy anywhere
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nobody outside Iraq really wants a democracy there
Except maybe Iran.

Welcome to the Irony Decade.

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German-Lefty Donating Member (568 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. King Abdullah II of Jordan doesn't seem that bad
I think this unelected thug Abdullah considers himself a "benevolent" dictator too. The bastard.

I saw a nice BBC documentary on him. Culturally he and his wife are very western and speak excellent English (he's lived in the west longer than in his own country). From what I gather he is moving his country forward and looks forward to the day he can kick back and let Parliament do everything.

They have had elections but they've been manipulated to keep islamists out of power.

Anyway, I don't know; the guy seems ok, but I'm no expert. My point is just that one can't assume someone is going to be a bad leader because he's been given dictatorial power.

Sure usually guys that overthrow governments to establish dictatorships tend to be pretty evil. This isn't the case with most monarchies.

Maybe we should have a pick your least evil dictator poll. Tito of Yugoslavia was pretty nice. Musharaf of Pakistan seems ok.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oh yea. Real nice fellow
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/jordan0404/5.htm

V. BETRAYING THE VICTIMS: THE OFFICIAL RESPONSE
The Police: Traditional Sympathies and Virginity Examinations

Jordanian police are known for mistreating criminal suspects. Prosecutor General Rawashdeh, for example, told Human Rights Watch that the police routinely beat detainees to obtain evidence: “ accused are beaten for evidence—I sent them to the forensic doctor—I would not take their confession.”75 These same police are also known for sympathizing with “honor” killers. As Asma Khader, minister of state and government spokesperson, has said, when “honor” killers turn themselves in to the police, the police “try to calm them down, give them a cigarette. The culture deals with them as heroes.”76

Added to the bias in favor of men who commit “honor” crimes is the virtual absence of training to deal with domestic violence. Currently, only fifteen to twenty police officers per year receive any training on domestic violence, according to Colonel al-Humoud, coordinator of the Family Protection Unit (FPU) within the Directorate of Public Security. The training lasts only a few days, too brief to be serious, and within the program there is no material dealing specifically with “honor” crimes.77

Police frequently require threatened women to be examined by a forensic doctor to determine whether their hymens are intact. Virginity exams reflect the presumption that families, communities, and the state have a legitimate interest in a woman’s sexual conduct. They involve pain, humiliation, and intimidation.78 These exams constitute cruel and inhuman treatment and are a violation of women's rights to physical integrity, sexual autonomy, and privacy. The practice was common in Jordan through the end of the 1990s when even a hint of suspicion had been aroused. Dr. Mu’men Hadidi, the nation’s chief medical examiner, told Human Rights Watch that police routinely sent girls and women for virginity examinations upon their families’ request without any evidence of sexual indiscretion. As he put it: “The easiest way to answer him was to have the exam and show that she did not have sex, to put the issue to rest.”79

Now, according to Dr. Hadidi, the protocol has changed and there must be evidence of a crime before a virginity exam can be required. This assertion was echoed by FPU Coordinator Al-Humoud, who spoke of the need for “strong evidence” to trigger the exam.80

more

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/at/Qjordan-parliament-laws.RFwU_Da4.html

Jordan parliament quashes laws on female divorce and "honour crimes"

AMMAN, Aug 4 (AFP) - Jordan's newly-elected parliament threw out temporary laws allowing women the right to divorce their husbands and providing harsher punishments for those guilty of so-called honour crimes, parliamentary sources said Monday.

Islamist and conservative deputies mounted a coalition to reject the laws passed by the cabinet in the two years since the previous parliament was dissolved, despite a vigorous defence from Jordanian Prime Minister Ali Abu Ragheb, who stressed they did not violate religious traditions.

Although welcomed by liberal deputies as a "positive development", Islamists said allowing women the right to divorce without their husband's consent would "destroy families".

Conservatives pointed to the "harm" it would inflict on homes and the "negative reaction" in parts of Jordan to its enforcement.

more

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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. ridiculous
ask the people of Ma'an how "benevolent" this puppet is.

Culturally he and his wife are very western and speak excellent English (he's lived in the west longer than in his own country)

Like that's a good thing? Just because dictators like Musharraf & Abdullah appear to be white on the inside does not make them good people.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. I take this seriously (unfortunately)
From the moment this fiasco started, I figured the only way "out" in Iraq, is to install a kinder, gentler Saddam. The only way to prevent a Civil war, at least in the short term, is to have a strong leader who can impose military control on the warring factions; hopefully in a humane way. There is no basis for a democracy in Iraq as we understand it. It will have to be grown over a period of years and implemented one step at a time.

The whole neocon concept of deposing Saddam and walking away with a Western/Israeli friendly democracy was sheer lunacy from the giddiyup!
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Wright Patman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's a myth
to say there are "warring factions" at this point. All the violence is being directed toward the occupation. The factions have united.

It reminds me of the movie "Braveheart" when William Wallace beseeches Robert the Bruce to "unite the clans" to take on the English.

Our invasion has "united the clans" of Iraq (except maybe the Kurds and they aren't going to be fighting as long as they maintain their semiautonomous region in northern Iraq).
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes and no
I think it's true that the tribes and religous factions (with the excpetion of the Kurds) are presently united against the occupation. The question is what happens when there is no longer an occupier to unite against.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. I know just the choice
Saddam Hussein

Wouldn't that be just totally ironic.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. we laughed about that during a family gathering...
wouldn't it be a hoot if the only one to lead would be our former buddy now POW ...Saddam....
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. Dictator eh? Just ask pretzel eye!
He can wear a spud where his "pink hair" is and presto, a dictator right near his bush!
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liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. Ah! Ooops, Bush must be surpised-that's NOT what press conference said
You know. The one where Bush told King Abdullah he was sorry for what happened to the Iraqis, thus proving that it's easy for him to quasi-apologize... TO THE WRONG PERSON.I remember thinking at the time it was odd for a monarch to be advocating democracy in Iraq.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/05/20040506-9.html

"Jordan is committed to support Iraqis in their quest to regain their sovereignty, rebuild their institutions, and establish a society based on freedom and democracy. The stability, unity, and territorial integrity of Iraq is an objective we both share, and we are determined to achieve it."-Bush

So what REALLY happened at that meeting? A plan to demonize Jordanian Zarqawi as the fall guy while Bin Laden sips his manhattans in the lounge chair on the Mediterranean?
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Had to laugh
at that statement too.

Can you imagine how uneasy a Monarch had to be when hearing his host promoting democracy?

Proverbial whore in church discomfort?
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