Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I Don't Support Killing

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:03 PM
Original message
I Don't Support Killing
If that makes me unamerican, so be it. Killing is wrong in my eyes, and it takes an extraordinary circumstance to justify it.

I support the troops for all the obvious reasons, of course, but I am appalled when I see a soldier kill a man and celebrate like he just bagged a duck.

And watching these "kids" launch smart bombs and react to hits like they are playing a video game makes my stomach flip.

I am old enough to remember when Vietnam was over and soldiers brought their blood lust home, and all the carnage that spilled over into the homeland as a result.

And I remember my friends that died or were irretrievably changed as a result of that contrived war.

Peace is the way, but I no longer believe we are wise enough to find it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Amen
the celebratory nature of war sickens me too. War by definition is the total failure of human beings to resolve a conflict in a civilized manner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If there is such a thing as a just war...
...why does every war come wrapped in a pack of lies?

why is the truth always the first casualty?

If the cause is just, there is no reason to lie about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The rhetoric/propaganda surrounding this war is chilling...
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
---Hermann Goering---


Sound familiar?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. me too now when I see soliders I think of them being trained to be
killers...

When asked about shipping out, they flatly say, "It is my job, this is what I was trained for" They sound like the stepford wives. Their brains turn off at that moment.

It worries me that they are trained to kill and turn off their emotions and objectify a person so there is no remorse.

I know it is hard on them when they come back and have to live in normal society.

It takes a different mind set to be a soldier and go and kill people.

I pray for the human part of their nature and fear for the killer that was trained into them. Trained to not think but act.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great article...check these snippets and link
Edited on Sun May-16-04 02:29 PM by indigobusiness
http://indyweek.com/durham/current/news.html

With trembling fingers

Despite the worst foreign policy blunder in American history, George W. Bush and his millionaire supporters don't know the meaning of the word shame

B Y H A L C R O W T H E R

I used to take a drink on occasion with a network newsman famed for his impenetrable calm--his apparent pulse rate that of a large mammal in deep hibernation--and in an avuncular moment he advised me that I'd do all right, in the long run, if I could only avoid the kind of journalism committed to the keyboard "with trembling fingers." I recognized the wisdom of this advice and endeavored over the years to write as little as possible when my blood pressure was soaring and my face was streaked with tears. The lava flows of indignation ebb predictably with age and hardening arteries, and nearing three-score I thought I'd never have to take another tranquilizer--or a double bourbon--to keep my fingers steady on the keys.
<snip>
The irreducible truth is that the invasion of Iraq was the worst blunder, the most staggering miscarriage of judgment, the most fateful, egregious, deceitful abuse of power in the history of American foreign policy. If you don't believe it yet, just keep watching. Apologists strain to dismiss parallels with Vietnam, but the similarities are stunning. In every action our soldiers kill innocent civilians, and in every other action apparent innocents kill our soldiers--and there's never any way to sort them out. And now these acts of subhuman sadism, these little My Lais.

Since the defining moment of the Bush presidency, the preposterous flight-suit, Fox News-produced photo-op on the Abraham Lincoln in front of the banner that read "Mission Accomplished," the shaming truth is that everything has gone wrong. Just as it was bound to go wrong, as many of us predicted it would go wrong--if anything more hopelessly wrong than any of us would have dared to prophesy. Iraq is an epic train wreck, and there's not a single American citizen who's going to walk away unscathed.

The shame of this truth, of such a failure and so much deceit exposed, would have brought on mass resignations or votes of no confidence in any free country in the world. In Japan not long ago, there would have been ritual suicides, shamed officials disemboweling themselves with samurai swords. Yet up to this point--at least to the point where we see grinning soldiers taking pictures of each other over piles of naked Iraqis--neither the president, the vice president nor any of the individuals who urged and designed this debacle have resigned or been terminated--or even apologized. They have betrayed no familiarity with the concept of shame.
<snip>
These are facts, not partisan rhetoric. Do any of them even make you restless? The cynical game these shape-shifters have been playing in the Middle East is too Byzantine to unravel in 1,000 pages of text. But the hypocrisy of the White House is palpable, and beggars belief. If there's one American who actually believes that Operation Iraqi Freedom was about democracy for the poor Iraqis, then you, my friend, are too dangerously stupid to be allowed near a voting booth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. A weird thread in a somewhat similar vein...:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stepahead Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Si Vas Pacem, para bellum
Peace IS great - most people love it. Unfortunatly, when you are attacked, or your people murdered - you must be prepared to defend yourself. It is justified for your survival - the survival of your friends, your family, your country. There are some very evil people in this world - throughout history - who knows why they are evil - some chemical imbalance of the brain? For whatever reason, they deserve to be removed from society - for the greater benefit of all. Sometimes you are left with no other choice then to fight - for your life, and for the life of things you hold dear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Self-defense is one thing
Thrashing wildly about around the planet making ridiculuous political gambits...and failing miserably...hardly equates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. and applies to the current war in Iraq/Afghanistan how?
With Afghanistan you have a stronger case with 9/11 - although one might wonder why no war against the Saudi's?? whatever support the Taliban provided to Al Qaeda (lets face it, it was more the other way around) they were almost 100% funded by Saudi's.

It CERTAINLY wasn't the fault of the average Afghan yet it is they who continue to pay the price for their country having been used as a pawn for over a century.

With regards to Iraq - remind me - when did they attack the US??????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don 't support killing either
and especially when it is done on lies and with malice aforthought.

I cannot support the troops because I do not support the lies and the use of the troops to kill innocent people.

Having said that, I regret that there are troops there who are being used as pawns, but nevertheless, I do not support these troops and their mission which they are bound to carry out.

Not a popular view, I am certain. MOst are guilt laden if they say they cannot support the troops.

I maintain that thinking is illogical and is spurred on by guilt and a guilt that is irrational

I am with RAll on this one and have no guilt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Now Jesus don't like killing,
No matter what the reasons for.
And your flag decal won't get you
Into heaven anymore."
John Prine, late 60's


I agree with John Prine.
My Christian background prevents me from suporting the War on Iraqis.

No Christian could support this war and remain true to their supposed faith.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. not much support for the non-killers
in the crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I bet you say you're a Christian, too.

See you in Hell, baby.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. LOL - taken over by france!?
what a childish notion.

funniest post i've read all week-end! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'm a pacifist, but I grew up in Texas
and I've kicked asshole asses like yours when I've been forced to.

If you don't remember the violence brought home to America from Vietnam, you are burntout or even more stupid than you sound.

Check the facts before you hurl idiotic insults.

I would defend to the death any GENUINE threat to my Country...particularly from Nazis like you.

Go home to your fuhrer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
eatstomach Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. What do you propose to do about it?
As long as there are people out there killing innocents there will need to be more killing to rid us of the vermin that started the killings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hmmmm...KILLING to end KILLING????
An eye for an eye until the whole World is blind?

Intresting paradox....Kill all those who kill!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. There are two sides to every story.
Edited on Mon May-17-04 10:16 PM by indigobusiness
Trying to bully the world into your way of thinking obviously doesn't work.

And "turning the other cheek" and "love your enemies like yourself" aren't quaint notions. They are words to live by, and far deeper in meaning than they appear. All wisdom traditions have similar ideas.

Every sane man wants peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC