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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:55 PM
Original message
Is anyone following the response of Bush's Christian Base?
I'm wondering if anybody out there has been following the reactions, official or otherwise, of Bush's extreme Christian voter base -- the ones who want this war and this administration for eschatological reasons of their own. How are they rationalizing Bush's obvious loss of control and loss of this war?

Any blogs? News releases? 700 Club sermons to give us a clue of where they stand?
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ezy250 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. He is on a Mission from God
His fan base will support him no matter what he does.

Can you say, Blinded by Faith?
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. jokerman fly by the light of the moon
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Pat Robertson
Ol Pat wants a war with N. Korea as well.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Really?
Do you have a link on that? Very important for personal reasons.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. He advocated assasinating the head of N. Korea a few years ago
Robertson supports hit men

On his August 10th "700 Club" television show, Pat Robertson said the US should kill world leaders it doesn't like. He called for a change in US foreign policy to include the assassination of foreign leaders.

"I know it sounds somewhat Machiavellian and evil, to think that you could send a squad in to take out somebody like Osama bin Laden, or to take out the head of North Korea," Robertson said. "But isn't it better to do something like that, to take out Milosevic, to take out Saddam Hussein, rather than to spend billions and billions of dollars on a war that harms innocent civilians and destroys the infrastructure of a country? It would just seem so much more practical to have that flexibility."

http://www.buildingequality.us/ifas/fw/9907/pat.html
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Any evil act can be justified once you believe the voice...
Any evil act can be justified once you believe the voice in your head is God talking directly to you.

Inquisitors -- "godly" men all -- committed the most unspeakable acts in history under the guise of saving the victims' immortal souls.

I only hope that when karma catches up with Robertson, Falwell, and the rest of their ilk, that they are judged as harshly as they presume to judge others.

Hekate
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Narraback Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. He should have went the first time...

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_acti...


Name: Dr. Marion "Pat" Robertson
Born: 1930
Employer: Christian Broadcasting Network
Conflict Avoided: Korea
Notes: Dr. Pat claimed in his biography to have "seen combat in Korea. He was in Korea in uniform briefly, but his daddy the Congressman got his reassigned to Japan. His picture belongs in the dictionary next to "pious fraud." Just recently declared that the State Department ought to get nuked, but has yet to be indicted for uttering a terrorist statement.

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thebaghwan Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. Yeah! When is ol Asscrack going to send his goon squads to take Pat away?
n/t
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. Fitting.
Didn't Pat weasel his way out of the original Korean War.

And now he's advocating another one? That's about as chickenhawk as it gets.

(Sorry about creating a new adjective)
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Indeed Rumguy, Indeed
And since some may wonder...

Jokerman

Standing on the water, casting your bread
While the eyes of the idol with the iron head are glowing
Distant ships sailing into the mist
You were born with a snake in both of your fists while a hurricane was blowing
Freedom just around the corner for you
But with truth so far off, what good will it do.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

So swiftly the sun sets in the sky
You rise up and say goodbye to no one
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread
Both of their futures, so full of dread, you don't show one
Shedding off one more layer of skin
Keeping one step ahead of the persecutor within.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

You're a man of the mountain, you can walk on the clouds
Manipulator of crowds, you're a dream twister
You're going to Sodom and Gomorrah
But what do you care ? Ain't nobody there would want marry your sister
Friend to the martyr, a friend to the woman of shame
You look into the fiery furnace, see the rich man without any name.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the Book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy
The law of the jungle and the sea are your only teachers
In the smoke of the twilight on a milk-white steed
Michelangeo indeed could've carved out your features
Resting in the fields, far from the turbulent space
Half asleep near the stars with a small dog licking your face.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

Well, the rifleman's stalking the sick and the lame
Preacherman seeks the same, who'll get there first is uncertain
Nightsticks and water cannons, tear gas, padlocks
Molotow cocktails and rocks behind every curtain
False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
Only a matter of time 'til the night comes stepping in.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.

It's a shadowy world, skies are slippery gray
A woman just gave birth to a prince today and dressed him in scarlet
He'll put the priest in his pocket, put the blade to the heat
Take the motherless children off the street
And place them at the feet of a harlot
Oh, Jokerman, you know what he wants
Oh, Jokerman, you don't show any response.

Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
--Bob Dylan
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. "Neighborhood Bully" off that album seems prettty appropriate these days
Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Man, what a great album. I'd been meaning to ask you if that's where you got your name.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
41. Jokerman
Dylan's songs seem more appropriate for the times now, than ever. Sometimes it's almost spooky.

:hi:

Enthusiastic Recommendation:
If anyone reading this has not yet seen Bob Dylan's 2003 Film "Masked and Anonymous" -- it's a must! Brilliant. And dead on. As usual for Mr. Zimmerman.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. my wife works with a preacher
of one of those small churches that don`t pay enough to afford a full time peacher..she started on him a couple of weeks ago about Jesus and homosexuals ,next it was why aren`t dinosaurs mentioned in the bible ..then she dropped the bomb of the abuse and torture and bush`s refusal to do anything about it...as of two days ago he will no longer speak to anyone on her crew....he can`t face the truth so he refuses to speak anymore....
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. sounds like
Sounds like in his case he's all alone at the bottome of the Christian food chain? Isn't there a talking points bulletin for these guys like there is for Hate Radio and Cable News?
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Please don't call these people 'Christians'
They believe in nothing and behave in no way like Jesus taught. They have fashioned their own religion using the name of "Christian."
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I call them Godians, as in the Old Testament God
Edited on Sat May-15-04 10:19 PM by Straight Shooter
Smiting "enemies" and engaging in all sorts of heinous behavior while proclaiming fidelity to an angry, vengeful, paternal god.

Christian? No way. They are nothing like Christ, IMHO.

edit: Maybe that should be "Goddians," or does that sound too much like g'damn?
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
44. I call them "Paulines" since they follow Paul and not Jesus.
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searchingforlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I am sorry, but you are wrong.
Christians like these have been around forever and during many centuries throughout history they dominated and shaped the religion as it is practiced today.

The Dark Ages
The Spanish Inquisition
The Salem Witch Trials
The Crusades
Not to mention the more subtle ways that the churches have supported the social structures of our country i.e. segregation, keeping the little woman in the home, outrage over the appointment of a gay bishop.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. There were also christians who fought slavery
supported women's sufferage, and supported the civil rights movement.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Point well taken
The stories I've read about Jesus bear no resemblance to the Moloch they serve.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. What pisses me off about these guys........
Is their completely patronizing attitude when they tell me that "Geee-zus died for my sins." Like I hadn't already heard it--I live in the Bible belt, you know? I've heard it until I'm blue in the face. Duh. I don't believe, don't you GET that?
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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. not really but I know of a link
that is called www.bushrevealed.com

They talk about averything bad Bush is doing except for the war. They think/know Bush isn't as religious as he says he is. They say he support abortion and gay rights. They think skull & bones is satanic in origin and follow all of Bush's mingling with "false" religions. I think the guy who runs the discussion board is part of the Constitution party. I take a look over there every know and then but it's not worth posting about because they are extremely set in their ways. Most of the posters say they won't vote at all or they are going to vote Constitution party.

I think they think Islam is evil so they justify it in that respect. Everytime someone posts a link regarding 9/11 or anything anti- Iraq war it just gets ignored.

It's an extremist fundie site who doesn't like Bush because he isn't extremist enough for them, I think.
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loathesomeshrub Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Very scary people n/t
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Texican Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. I Work With a Bunch of Them
They literally would like to torture anyone opposed to god's liberation of greater Israel, I mean Iraq. The more untenable their arguments become the more martial they become. It reminds me of the good christian Abbot that ordered his army of crusaders to "Kill them all and the Lord will know his own." This was after a crusader asked why they were killing everyone in a mostly christian town.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Bush Davidians. Bush doesn't care a fig about any of them.
Unfortunately what they see is the product of their own
needs projected onto the blank screen that is George W Bush.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. That's politics!
I mean...that's religion!

I mean...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. once kids are out of school, this summer
i am going to the different churches and confess, i am having a crisis of religion, not faith,.........i am strong in faith. but the selling out of religion and what it creates for our youth and the world

i too am curious how they justify all. will let you know what i hear
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. thank you sincerely
I've thought of doing that, but I can't bring myself to that kind of hypocracy. And not a little worried that if they found out who I really am -- an athiest liberal who reads books, follows the news, believes in equal rights and justice for all, and studies mysticsm and the occult -- well, let's just leave it at that. My name is probably on enough lists as it is.

Looking forward to reading a thread on your observations.

:hi:
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. I look in at the Southern Baptists website to get their spin on things.
Very eye opening at times. I consider the SB organization the main mover/shakers of fundyland.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Got a link?
Got a link? Do they have a SB vatican or something that issues marching orders?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
46. They have the Southern Baptist Convention....
http://www.sbc.net /

then go to BPNews Headlines for their spin on events. It's pretty obvious the Left Behinders are leading the pack. Politics and religion are a deadly mix.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. pentecostals/charismatics a major player
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's easy for them. The End Times beliefs state that their will be a long
period of chaos and trauma, eight years, I think. It's all prophesied for them.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. I dunno
But I know those guys have had a raging case of Armageddon Blueballs for decades. And GeeDubya's brought them soooo close to the money shot, been more saucy and promiscuous than they could've ever hoped. I'm sure the Iraq debacle has got them squirmy with anticipation. If he makes a move to ramp down that tension, they'll be hugely pissed.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Part of my concern
That's funny -- and insightful.

Part of my concern is a scenario where it dawns on some of the more rabid among them that their leaders (using supposedly infallible biblical prophesy) have backed a losing horse.

These people have no sense of civil responsibility. They serve a supposedly higher law. I'm worried these crypto-fascist religionists will start trying to take matters into their own hands. Without shepherds to guide them they could devolve into loose cannons here at home.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I doubt they've noticed
(though living in Asia, I wouldn't know firsthand) Dubya still makes the right noises -- evildoers, Berg, kill, kill! -- and leaves it to his minions to float concessionary trial balloons (we'll leave if they ask). I can't see them abandoning the divinely blessed preznit, unless he let's his schtick go soft, like pulling out and embracing the horror of a non-bloody negotiated resolution.

I agree with you though, their frenzy will turn into some serious ugliness if Dubya's thwarted and they don't get raptured out of their trailers soon.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. yep
What you said brother.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. The Base. Isn't that what Al-Queda means?
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yes
And that's not funny. It's scary.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
35. Gawd works in mysterious ways
and tests the faith of the righteous

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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. But you see...
These people have no faith. They are mere automatons. They'll snap.
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r_u_stuck2 Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
39. Here's some who do not believe in Bush
This bunch is to the right of the neocons. If you look on the left side of the page and click on "The Bush Record" you will find:

"Republicans Anonymous (The Constitution Party's Twelve Step Program for "Recovering Republicans")

When Bush Loses In November, He Will Have No One To Blame But Himself (January 23, 2004)


This dude has been selected to run as vice president of the "Constitution party"

You can also click on the flag on the front page to find out"

"...,the truth about the Confederate flag"

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com /

http://www.constitutionparty.com /


If you think these are weird, just comment and I will give you a link to a satire that is lots of fun.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
40. They are pissed off a Bush and Sharon
because of the Gaza plan. If the settlers can't have everything they want in both Gaza and the West Bank, they don't think the big J will come back.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L25451249.htm
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playahata1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. I have just read the article.
Edited on Sun May-16-04 10:09 AM by playahata1
THESE PEOPLE ARE FUCKING SCARY!

Anybody ever tell these folks: "Ye know not the day nor the hour..."?
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playahata1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
43. I wonder how these fools will react when their "End Times" don't come
when they want/need/expect them to come. Will there be a loud mass "wailing and gnashing of teeth"? Will the preachers, when questioned by their lost, dazed, and confused "sheep," stammer and sputter and foam at the mouth like the rabid dogs many of them are now? And so on, and so on, and so on....

I have some pretty wild fantasies about what will happen with the Fundies if Armageddon/the Rapture/End Times indeed does not come about, but my expressing such fantasies will probably get me kicked off DU, so we shall leave it at that. Peace.

P.S.: You can't hurry God....
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