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Abu Ghraib: "Culturally appropriate" torture.

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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:09 PM
Original message
Abu Ghraib: "Culturally appropriate" torture.
Edited on Sat May-15-04 07:23 PM by pinto
One aspect of the torture at the Abu Ghraib prison has nagged me. The methods seen in many of the photos seem particularly tailored to bring the most shame and humiliation in a Muslim context.

This took some thought and some knowledge of Islamic mores.

It was premeditated. Someone took the time to develop methods that would have the most effect in that culture.

I doubt if a group of "rogue" rank and file, acting independently, just came up with the concept one night.

Someone, somewhere planned the torture.


(spell ed)
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Have you read about Hersh's latest article on DU? It might give
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Read this!
"...One of the questions that will be explored at any trial, however, is why a group of Army Reserve military policemen, most of them from small towns, tormented their prisoners as they did, in a manner that was especially humiliating for Iraqi men.

The notion that Arabs are particularly vulnerable to sexual humiliation became a talking point among pro-war Washington conservatives in the months before the March, 2003, invasion of Iraq. One book that was frequently cited was The Arab Mind, a study of Arab culture and psychology, first published in 1973, by Raphael Patai, a cultural anthropologist who taught at, among other universities, Columbia and Princeton, and who died in 1996. The book includes a twenty-five-page chapter on Arabs and sex, depicting sex as a taboo vested with shame and repression. The segregation of the sexes, the veiling of the women . . . and all the other minute rules that govern and restrict contact between men and women, have the effect of making sex a prime mental preoccupation in the Arab world, Patai wrote. Homosexual activity, or any indication of homosexual leanings, as with all other expressions of sexuality, is never given any publicity. These are private affairs and remain in private. The Patai book, an academic told me, was the bible of the neocons on Arab behavior. In their discussions, he said, two themes emergedone, that Arabs only understand force and, two, that the biggest weakness of Arabs is shame and humiliation.

The government consultant said that there may have been a serious goal, in the beginning, behind the sexual humiliation and the posed photographs. It was thought that some prisoners would do anythingincluding spying on their associatesto avoid dissemination of the shameful photos to family and friends. The government consultant said, I was told that the purpose of the photographs was to create an army of informants, people you could insert back in the population. The idea was that they would be motivated by fear of exposure, and gather information about pending insurgency action, the consultant said. If so, it wasnt effective; the insurgency continued to grow."

http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact

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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bong! Hadn't read it yet (or seen that blurb), but printing as I type....
thks bicentennial baby (and LittleApple81, too).

Wonder who sat in those Patai classes.....
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. hey, ding ding ding! we have a winner.
great point!
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. I dunno, I'm not an intellectual, so I won't get into this kind of
'debate'. C'mon, this isn't about RELIGION. This is INHUMAN! Please don't attempt to muddy the waters. Just use the 'Golden Rule' .... "Do Unto Others and you would have done unto you"....Would 'you' (whoever "YOU" are) like to be treated like that?
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No "debate" with the golden rule here. Or the rule of law,
which comes into play, as the Administration has promised the world, to find and hold accountable, those responsible for Abu Ghraib.
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The Rule of Law (lately) has proven itself to be largely inadequate...
if you're rich enough, if you're connected enough.....the 'LAW' doesn't apply to YOU....which makes the 'LAW' a joke.
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Well, apparently everyone agrees.....
let's hope that we are all conneted, rich, and (loved?) enoughllllll
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Interesting point
Someone like Lyndie England (or whatever her name is), based upon what I've heard about her background, doesn't seem like she's had a lot of education or exposure to different cultures.
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